WA - Candice “Candy” Rogers, 9, Spokane, 6 March 1959 *suspect died*

Xcop1951 said:

Examples Green River Killer must be a cop, Spokane Killer must be a cop! Hillside Strangler must be a cop! on and on and on like a broken record. Somewhere it must be written that this is the fall back position. I guess because they issue tickets and bust people for smoking dope they are responsible for everything!

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Jack the Ripper must have been a cop!

Xcop, please let me first welcome you to the board. I hope some of the material here will grab your interest as it has mine.

With regards to the reasons why some people come to think that perpetrators of certain unsolved crimes could be cops my feeling is that the belief stems from the fact that those crimes are, well, unsolved. This fact may cause some to suspect that the reason the perp doesn't get caught is because he or she is somehow privy to details of the investigation.

Personally I think that some criminals can be clever without necessarily having any "inside knowledge" of an investigation, and others are just plain lucky. When you think about it cops who have been convicted of heinous crimes are extremely rare, most dirty cop stories deal with corruption and related economic crimes, rarely violent crimes and as far as I know no cop has ever been involved in serial murder other than in fiction (vigilante cop and such), but I could be wrong.

KarlK said:

Jack the Ripper must have been a cop!
Personally I think that some criminals can be clever without necessarily having any "inside knowledge" of an investigation, and others are just plain lucky. When you think about it cops who have been convicted of heinous crimes are extremely rare, most dirty cop stories deal with corruption and related economic crimes, rarely violent crimes and as far as I know no cop has ever been involved in serial murder other than in fiction (vigilante cop and such), but I could be wrong.

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In fairness, I must point out, there has been at least one. Gerard Schaefer. However, he's the only one I can think of. Most killings by a cop I can think of are the usual personally motivated. Jealousy, greed, personal issues arising from divorce, infidelity, etc.

I don't think that's the case here.

Xcop, I hope you will stick around. I've been doing some thinking about this case and I'm going to have some questions about how things were/are done, but I want to get my thoughts organized first.

Timeline of Hugh Bion Morse

1951 Morse is dishonorably discharged from the Marines after being arrested for assault and indecent exposure.

1955 Morse attempts to molest two 8 year old girls selling Girl Scout cookies.

Aug. 1955 Morse committed to the California State Hospital at Atascadero.

Jan. 1957 Morse is released from Atascadero.

March 6, 1959. Candy Rogers. Raped and murdered. Not proven to be Morse.

Nov. 7, 1959. Gloria J. Brie. Raped and murdered.

Sept. 27, 1960. Blanche E. Boggs. Attempted rape and murder.

Oct. 26, 1960. Beverly A. Myers. Beaten severely and rape attempted.

Oct. 28, 1960. Attempts to murder his ex-wife.

April, 1961. Breaks into an Atlanta woman’s apartment. Terrorizes her and her three daughters with a knife and molests one of the girls.

April/May, 1961. Uses knife to rape an 18 year old female. This happens a week after the previous attack and in the same building.

May, 1961. Breaks into a Dayton, Ohio woman’s apartment. Beats, rapes and stabs her. She survives.

July, 1961. In Birmingham, Alabama, he beats Bobbi Ann Landini to death and molests her afterwards.

Sept. 19, 1961. Rapes and murders Carol Ronan in St. Paul, Minnesota

Oct. 13, 1961. Arrested by the FBI.

I hope others find this timeline helpful.

There is also a print article by John Craig that mentions some things not spoken of in the video. Link below.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=235057

He mentions, both in the article and the video, 2 other suspects.

James Howard Barnett. Committed suicide while in jail for suspicion of a sex crime against a child. Happened on Feb. 7, 1960.

Alfred Graves. Committed suicide on the day Candy's body was found. Had newspaper articles about molested females, both adult and children, in his apartment.

Other evidence:

Candy's body had possible rope marks around the waist. There was rope found with the body. Suspect Graves had pieces of rope in the trunk of his car.

A woman tipped police that she had seen a green car driving slowly towards a girl she believed to be Candy on the day of the abduction. A green car seat cover was found near the crime scene. Children's clothing was found in the car by a subsequent owner.

These are some of my thoughts and questions on the case and other posters comments.

First off, the 'cop as killer' and planting false evidence idea. The problem with this I see is that Candy's murder came before the other Spokane murders and attacks. How would someone have known to plant grape chewing gum on Candy?
Was Morse known to local LE before the attack? Going by the article further up the page in this discussion, it doesn't seem LE was aware of Morse's prior offences.
If Morse was still on parole from his California crimes, would he have been allowed to move to Spokane? If he could, would he have been assigned a local parole officer or would he still report to California? If there was a local officer, would that officer have had info about the grape chewing gum?
Since Candy's attack came first, I tend to think the gum wasn't left there to mislead.

Did Morse possibly have an accomplice? I could see him sharing gum with one, which would explain there being gum there with different DNA on Candy's clothing. Related question: Was all the gum tested and did it match each other?

Did Morse know the 2 suicide suspects or have contact with other sex criminals in the area?

Did possibly someone Morse knew figure out or learn that he had a history of sex offenses and use this knowledge to frame him?

Did Morse, perhaps, give gum to others and keep it afterwards? DNA testing wasn't available back then, but I think saliva could be used to determine blood type. Maybe Morse planted gum chewed by others to divert suspicion from himself? Yes, I'm aware this is a bit out there.

Morse seems to have been not picky about the age range of his victims. He is known to have raped or molested both adult females and children, both before and after the attack on Candy. He can't be ruled out because his confessed Spokane victims were older.

I can't come to any firm conclusions, but I lean towards this having been done by Morse and an accomplice. Candy not only lived near Morse, but Morse followed his pattern used on his other Spokane attacks of moving immediately after the attack. If he hadn't killed Candy, why would he have done this? Against this, he may well have expected his past to make him a suspect in this crime, even if he didn't commit it and moved out of paranoia.

All this is subject to change as new facts come out.

Bargle said:

Other evidence:

Candy's body had possible rope marks around the waist. There was rope found with the body. Suspect Graves had pieces of rope in the trunk of his car.

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Blasted typo. That should be 'There was no rope found with the body.

Candy Rogers was 9 years old when she was murdered. In March of 1959 she went missing while selling campfire mints near her home. Morse had attempted to molest two 8 yr old girls in 1955 while they sold girl scout cookies near THEIR homes. Now, this sounds pretty open and shut until you realize that the evidence found on Candy did not match the DNA of Morse. Morse had been committed to a hospital in California as a "sexual psychopath", but he was released in 1957, a couple of years BEFORE Candy was murdered. He was also a marine, believe it or not. But he was dishonorably discharged in '51. Hugh Bion Morse was on the FBI Most Wanted List for 1961. In 1959, he was in a "motorcycle" gang in Spokane Washington. He was considered likable by people who did not know of his past, and was also considered clean cut and neat. He chewed grape flavored gum, (a reason why he became a suspect in Candy's case as grape gum had been smeared across her sweater). But the problem here is this, DNA does not match up Hite to the DNA evidence extracted from the grape gum or from the evidence left inside Candy. So... It can't be him. Or at least, he can't be the one who raped her or the one who left the grape gum on her sweater. So, who did? I don't get it. Could he have had a partner? You can't change your DNA. It is a very odd case.

KARK K
Thanks for the welcome, no I was not say that a cop could not be responsible it's possible.
And sadly you are wrong there have been far too many that have been involved in rape murders I can think of at least a half a dozen in California alone. A serial killer in Florida was fired from the police department after kidnapping two girls, later upon closer investigation he was tied to several murders. Got what he deserved when he himself was murder in prison.
I just think that a lot of people immediately go there when a case can't be solved. I've worked a few cases that the information was just not there to solve the case at the time.
Then there are cases where you know who the suspect is but there is not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Those are the tough cases. I worked on two of the Ramirez Night Stacker cases, it widely reported he started his killings in LA & Orange County but he actually did his first two in San Diego. By the time he was caught LA obviously had spent millions on the case and had caught him. They got first crack at him once he was tried convicted and would never be seeing the light of day San Diego was not going to spend a million dollars putting him on trial and that happens a lot.

This case with Candy tugs at my heart because was just a year older than me and only lived a mile away. But more than that Spokane was such an innocent place back then.
Her murder was the rape of the entire city. Now people have become so desensitized to crime that unless it happens to them or a member of their family it's almost like "oh well things happen get over it." Candy was one of things that those of us that lived here during that time will take with us to our grave.

LAURA BEAN,
You are absolutely right he may have had a partner. While I'm sure the gentleman from Springdale that interjected himself into the case by giving information to the motor officer
about his friend that he said he road past this place where her body was found is a totally innocent man. He still should be a person of interest. If for no other reason he spoke about having the suspect Morse in his side car and driving past the place where the body was dumped the following week. Then you add he said he knew Morse chewed grape gum. Then you have interjecting himself into the investigation back at the time this happened all of these are perfectly innocent things. They are also all perfectly good reasons why his DNA should be checked. Morse is obviously the most obvious suspect and was likely involved. This case just has his smell all over it. This like innocent man says he knew Morse and rode rode around with him. Then he says he knew about Morse chewing grape gum and he knew about grape gum being found on the body. He says a police officer told him. How do we know that is true? He's kept a scrape book about this case. How many times have we heard that in the past.
Like I said he is likely completely innocent but he's the best lead in this case and if someone doesn't ask him to volunteer a DNA sample then they are not doing their job.
No offense to you Mr. Hite but you put yourself in this case and you should be eliminated as a person of interest. While it is not my intent to say you are responsible for this I feel horrible crime I do feel you have some information that should put you on a shortlist tobe eliminate as person of interest.

XCOP ---- Is there any way you can find out if Hite ever had his DNA tested? Being an x-cop maybe they would listen to you if you suggested it.

Xcop1951 said:

KARK K
Thanks for the welcome, no I was not say that a cop could not be responsible it's possible.
And sadly you are wrong there have been far too many that have been involved in rape murders I can think of at least a half a dozen in California alone. A serial killer in Florida was fired from the police department after kidnapping two girls, later upon closer investigation he was tied to several murders.

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Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that case. Perhaps I should have said "I don't know of any well known serial murder case where the perp turned out to be a cop" although it's possible like you suggest that some of the unsolved cases may involve individual(s) linked to law enforcement. I guess that what I wanted to convey was that just because a case remains unsolved, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's because the perp has insider knowledge of the investigation, he/she may simply be cautious enough not to leave sufficient evidence to solve a case, or law enforcement agencies encounter issues such as, like you mention, budget limitations. I am under the impression that the "CSI effect" which gives the false impression that every crime can be solved, does not only affect juries but also the general public in their expectations of police work. This is bound to raise suspicions when a case gets stalled.

I've worked a few cases that the information was just not there to solve the case at the time. Then there are cases where you know who the suspect is but there is not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Those are the tough cases.

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Indeed. And that must be quite frustrating when working under public pressure.

Her murder was the rape of the entire city. Now people have become so desensitized to crime that unless it happens to them or a member of their family it's almost like "oh well things happen get over it." Candy was one of things that those of us that lived here during that time will take with us to our grave.

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Very true. Back in the 60's and early 70's I spent part of my childhood in a smallish New England town (pop about 30,000) where one particular street was dubbed "Murder Street" not because the crime rate in the area was particularly high, but because a murder had taken place there... in 1920. There had been no murders in that town between 1920 and the mid 70's, that's how quiet and safe it was. Now they have two or three every year even though the town is still about the same size, and townsfolk have indeed become desensitized.

KARK K
Thanks for the welcome, no I was not saying that a cop could not be responsible it's possible.
And sadly you are wrong there have been far too many that have been involved in rape murders I can think of at least a half a dozen in California alone. A serial killer in Florida was fired from the police department after kidnapping two girls, later upon closer investigation he was tied to several murders. Got what he deserved when he himself was murder in prison.
I just think that a lot of people immediately go there when a case can't be solved. I've worked a few cases that the information was just not there to solve the case at the time.
Then there are cases where you know who the suspect is but there is not enough evidence to get a prosecution. Those are the tough cases. I worked on two of the Ramirez Night Stacker cases, it widely reported he started his killings in LA & Orange County but he actually did his first two in San Diego. By the time he was caught LA obviously had spent millions on the case and had caught him. They got first crack at him once he was tried convicted and would never be seeing the light of day San Diego was not going to spend a million dollars putting him on trial and that happens a lot.

This case with Candy tugs at my heart because was just a year older than me and only lived a mile away. But more than that Spokane was such an innocent place back then.
Her murder was the rape of the entire city. Now people have become so desensitized to crime that unless it happens to them or a member of their family it almost like oh well thing happen get over it.

I guess what I was most interested in finding out was if Mr. Hite was tested for his DNA. Nice older man I'm sure he's 100 % innocent but a few things strike me. One he had contact and a friendship with a principle suspect and admits driving by the dump sight of the body the week before the murder.
Next he had knowledge about the grape gum. Next he interjected himself into the case back when it was a fresh crime by speaking to the motor officer about Morse.
Finally he kept a scrape book on the case. All of these are things I've seen in cases before. One by itself would bear looking at all of them put together. He should be a person of interest and someone should be asking him for a DNA sample.
Doesn't mean he had anything to do with it at all. Likely as not he did not. But someone did and a good detective would look at what this guy has said and would be saying "how about you giving me an elimination sample".

My hope is that someday before I die this crime will be solved. It was not only a senseless crime that should never have happened, but it was a crime so horrific for the torture that little girl was subjected to that it screams for every resource of our community to solve it somehow. If it requires exhumation of a body or bodies it should be done. Those men that committed suicide likely still have DNA available for testing.

LAURA BEAN,
I'm going to contact the detective mentioned in John Craigs article Detective Brian Hamond
don't know if I'll get anywhere, once you're out of law enforcement it doesn't account for much. But if he has not been tested I certainly have a right to ask why not.
I'd also like to talk to him to see if he knows how Morse's DNA sample was collected and by who in the prison. Convicts are sometime very smart. They also can bribe nearly anyone in the prison. There is a current case I wrote about recently I believe it was in Milwaukee where a killer got his DNA sample to get lost so it never made it to the crime lab. He got out and murdered another woman because his DNA did not trigger an alert that he was a serial killer.
The suicide the day she was found sounds promising as well. I agree it's not to late to solve this case and if the killer is still alive he deserves the full measure of the law.
Thank you for keeping up the good fight on this case. I know that has not been a month in my life since age eight that I have not thought of Candy.

Seems to me that since they did the "hare and hound" event with the motorcycle club, that the perpetrator could actually have been anyone who participated in the event, not just Morse. While Morse attempted to molest those 2 8-year-old girls, it does not mention that he was violent towards them per se - it seems like he was much more violent towards adult women - they seem to be much more of his ideal victims than little girls.

Laura_Bean said:

You know, I almost thought of suspecting one of the police officers. Because they knew that the rapist was leaving grape gum, etc.

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Problem with that is the rapes happened after Candy was killed so time line kind of shoots that down.
There is nothing easy about this case. Detective is going to get a DNA sample on the gum which is a really good idea. I would have submitted it with the biological sample. But anyway the problem here is who got the sample of Morse from the prison? Did someone here go back and get it or did they rely on the prison to supply it?
If it came from the prison back there it has to be suspect. It's unlikely they have any biological samples from any of his earlier victims as those have a tendency to get lost over time. This case can be and should be solved.
It has dedicated people working on it and now science is there to help. But time is running out. All three of the good suspects are dead but I still feel it may be possible to track down direct relatives and check their DNA markers. They wouldn't be exact match but they might provide enough that you could say OK this was the person.
This case killed two people Candy and her father who committed suicide a few short years later. Candy reaches out from the grave and cries for us to solve her case. She touched the heart of everyone that lived in Spokane at the time.

Hi everyone. I'm a reporter for KHQ News, currently working on an update to this cold case. I see it's been awhile since someone last posted on this forum - but if anyone remembers when this happened, or has a connection that could talk (either through phone or on-camera), feel free to reach me at shelley.fontaine@khq.com.

Candy Rogers
Candy Rogers was 9 years old when she disappeared one evening in March 1959 while selling Camp Fire mints near her home in west Spokane. Her body was found about two weeks later under a pile of pine needles in a nearby abandoned rock quarry after varment hunters found her shoes.

This article by Spokesman Review staff writer John Craig provides the following details of this still unsolved murder--http://www.spokesmanreview.com/coldcase/stories/?id=235056

While the unsolved case is still considered open, there is a prime suspect in the killing-- Hugh Bion Morse, a/k/a "Chris."

<modsnip>

(While in custody he also confessed to murder and other sex and violent crimes against women in Georgia, Ohio, Alabama, California and Missouri in 1960 and 1961).

Morse became a suspect in the Candy Rogers murder when police discovered he'd attempted to molest two 8-year-old girls while they sold Girl Scout cookies in California in 1955. Morse had been committed to the California State Hospital as a sexual psychopath, but was released in 1957. He was arrested four months later in California on suspicion of sex crimes. Police also learned that Morse had been dishonorably discharged from the Marine Corps in 1951 after he was arrested in North Carolina on suspicion of assault and indecent exposure.

Morse denied any involvement in the murder of Candy Rogers and he passed two lie-detector tests. DNA identification testing, not available when Rogers was murdered, was conducted in 2002 but it did not match a sample from Morse.

<modsnip>

Look what I found.
Seattle Man Charged In 1957 Murder Of 7-Year-Old Maria Ridulph: Train Ticket Helps Crack Case
BARBARA RODRIGUEZ 07/ 2/11 09:27 PM ET Associated Press
<modsnip>


SYCAMORE, Ill. - Charles "Chuck" Ridulph always assumed the person who stole his little sister from the neighborhood corner where she played and dumped her body in a wooded stretch some 100 miles away was a trucker or passing stranger - surely not anyone from the hometown he remembers as one big, friendly playground.

And, after more than a half century passed since her death, he assumed the culprit also had died or was in prison for some other crime.

On Saturday, he said he was stunned by the news that a one-time neighbor had been charged in the kidnapping and killing that captured national attention, including that of the president and FBI chief. Prosecutors in bucolic Sycamore, a city of 15,000 that's home to a yearly pumpkin festival, charged a former police officer Friday in the 1957 abduction of 7-year-old Maria Ridulph after an ex-girlfriend's discovery of an unused train ticket blew a hole in his alibi.

Jack Daniel McCullough, 71, has been held in Seattle on $3 million bail. A judge overseeing a Saturday court appearance for him said he had been taken to a regional trauma center but did not elaborate. She rescheduled his bail hearing for 12:30 p.m. Monday.

"I just can't believe that after all these years they'd be able to find this guy," Chuck Ridulph told The Associated Press at his duplex in Sycamore, about 50 miles west of Chicago.

A 65-year-old minister who mainly serves his area's senior citizens, Ridulph once shared a bedroom with his sister and already has his headstone placed on a burial plot next to her grave. <modsnip>

Sycamore Police Chief Donald Thomas was reluctant to discuss the case when found at home Saturday. But he said, "we believe we know who did it. We believe we have a strong case."

His department's breakthrough was a long time coming.

Maria disappeared Dec. 3, 1957, while doing what kids in Sycamore did then - playing. Maria's friend, Kathy Chapman, who was 8 at the time, recalled that she and Maria were under a corner streetlight when a young man she knew as "Johnny" offered them a piggyback ride. Chapman, now 61 and living in St. Charles, Ill., told the AP she ran home to get mittens and that when she returned, Maria and the man were gone.

__

Now look at the children victims side by side. Is it just me or do they look alike?






Same haircut both white similar faces with big smiles, Maria - 7 Candy - 9 both murdered found in woods within 2 yrs of one another