Cindy Anthony subpoenaed to appear in court

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The following is my humble opinion -- no expertise here and anyone is free to jump in.

I think CA made that phone call because she is a mandated reporter. CA was protecting herself and her ability to make a living. Things had gotten out of hand and the odor in the car didn't necessarily convince CA because she didn't want to believe it. We've seen the dynamics that in that family, truth is negotiable. However, the odor in the car along with KC's statement that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days was enough to nudge CA into making the mandated reporter call. Mandated reporter calls are required to go to law enforcement and that's who she called.

On the other hand, the fact that CA did make that call is also some strong evidence that CA did not believe Caylee was dead at that time. There is no requirement to make a mandated reporter report concerning a dead child. The child is no longer an abused child. The child no longer exists. The statute for protecting an abused child is no longer operative on the situation. At that point, it has become only a criminal homicide investigation.

The reason CA feels overwhelming guilt now for making that call is because she didn't have to make that call; when she thought she did have to make it to comply with the mandated reporter laws, to save her own nursing license and to save her ability to make a living.

BBM

I agree that the call is evidence Cindy did not believe Caylee was dead when she made the call. Only I believe Cindy made the call because she she was scared out of her mind by Casey saying she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days. As Cindy talked to the dispatcher she was saying whatever came into her mind and...she said (anguished wail) the car smells like a dead body. In my opinion, Cindy was digesting horrific news, and she sad the car smelled like a dead body because the car smelled like a dead body. The wailing sorrowful sounds Cindy made when she told the dispatcher about how the car smelled like a body are themselves a testimony to what Cindy was thinking.

I believe that when Cindy went into cover-up mode it signals a realization that she couldn't save Caylee.
 
IMO
Cindy said the car smelled like death because it did.
Do I think she has either been approached about changing "why" she said what she said or thought this up on her own ? Yes
Do I think it is just another thing the defense is trying...another gimmick? Yes
But ... didn't Cindy tell the FBI about the smell ? and isn't her testimony on a depo somewhere ? I don't have the heart to read all that stuff again , so someone on here help me out. Has she at some point sworn she smelled death ? I know she eventually changed it to rotten pizza. But to me , listening to her 911 call , she sounds frantic..not calculating. Do I think she planned to sound frantic when that 911 call was made ? Nope
So ... if she is changing the "why" she said what she said ... will that mean she has perjured herself ? Anyone know ?
Maybe she wants to be in jail with Casey ? The family that lies together ......?
 
I always believed that the first calls to 911, with Cindy claiming that she wanted to report her car stolen, and, have her daughter arrested for it was for 2 reasons.
1} To have police report to hand over to the insurance company so she could get her towage and storage money returned to her.
2} To scare the crap out of Casey, after which with an official report in her hand, and, payment safely secured, she would have dropped the charges.

Once things got out of control, she went on "automatic".
OMG, Caylee IS Missing ~ OMG = what IS that smell in that car ~ OMG, what did Casey DO this time ~

As far as her "story" that she was just doing whatever it took to get LE there as fast as they could ~
What's wrong with telling you have a missing and possible kidnapped toddler??
That would have brought out all available forces just as quickly, if not faster.
 
To clarify -- there is no requirement to report the death of a child under mandated reporter laws unless the death of a child is determined to be a result of abuse abandonment or neglect. Ultimately, that determination is made by the Coroner.

(o) Any person in the event of the death of a child determined to be a result of abuse, abandonment, or neglect. ... .
(Florida Statutes, 39.202(2)(o).)
 
Cindy is going to try and spin it to make the 911 call sound less than what it is. However I beleive that Lee is going to tell the truth. I honestly think he is done with Casey. Did anyone else notice there were no letters from Lee to Casey? He has been done with her, I think he will stand up for Caylee, JMO

I hope so. I think it would be a good plan to have Lee testify first. If witnesses can't be in the courtroom until after they testify, then Cindy wouldn't be present to intimidate him.
 
I hope so. I think it would be a good plan to have Lee testify first. If witnesses can't be in the courtroom until after they testify, then Cindy wouldn't be present to intimidate him.
Prosecutors can keep witnesses out of the courtroom for the entire trial by keeping them in the status "subject to recall." Once they are "released" from their subpoena, they can sit in the courtroom, but not if "subject to recall."
 
Casey has been telling people the "molestation" story for quite some time. Jesse Grund brought up these allegations quite early in this case. Cindy was adament that Jesse was lying. I also believe Tony L. made the same revelation (correct me if I am wrong).

This would have just been hearsay and probably would not have been brought up at trial, but now that we have letters where Casey, in her own handwriting, accuses Lee and George of these accusations, they are sure to be brought up while questioning Lee and George (during the trial). Casey even expressed how Jesse had betrayed her by telling LE (therefore the media) what she had told him.

So the accusations have been around for a while. They aren't something that Casey has just now made up to garner sympathy. Do I believe them? No! I believe nothing that comes from Casey.

Yes, in fact, I just re-read an interview by YM of the roommate of Tony L, and YM asked him if he had ever heard KC or Tony talk about whether or not her father or brother had abused KC. The roommate said he did recall Tony telling him that GA had abused her. YM asked if it was physical or sexual, and the roommate said he did not know and no one ever said. So if JB had been doing his homework like us dedicated WSleuthers....he would know that that idea had been floating for awhile.
 
To clarify -- there is no requirement to report the death of a child under mandated reporter laws unless the death of a child is determined to be a result of abuse abandonment or neglect. Ultimately, that determination is made by the Coroner.

(o) Any person in the event of the death of a child determined to be a result of abuse, abandonment, or neglect. ... .
(Florida Statutes, 39.202(2)(o).)
I think duct tape falls into that catergory...Sure, I got twins...when one cried the other was quiet and vice-versa. But, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER in a million years would I not report my child missing for 31 days, and then it was my mother who had to make the report but most of all, DUCT TAPE COVERING their AIRWAYS ! What part of this isn;t child abuse or am I reading your comment wrong. Please, if I am off base here just tell me !
 
I bet GA shows up to support his son. If he doesn't show up at the hearing it's going to speak volumes.

Unless he's found a new place to live and a new way to get $, he'll do what she tells him to.
moooo.gif
 
All I could think of when reading this news is that from the minute CA got that subpoena, she has been fantasizing about her "performance" on the stand, day dreaming about her return to the spotlight. I just have this mental picture of her being thrilled and excited because it will be she who has everyone's attention, not KC. I picture her thinking about KC being forced to watch her on the stand & CA is reveling in that. She is going to make the most of this, I have no doubt.

I bet KC is seething. She will finally HAVE to look at CA and listen to her. And KC knows her mother, she knows that even when CA tries to defend her, she never quite pulls it off without laying an egg.

Good Lord, talk about Christmas in July for the prosecution!

MOO

I predict she will be very busy taking 'notes' or some other sort of 'could not care less' attitude tactic
 
first link in first post comes up with a blank page; second link in post #6 is working
 
I always believed that the first calls to 911, with Cindy claiming that she wanted to report her car stolen, and, have her daughter arrested for it was for 2 reasons.
1} To have police report to hand over to the insurance company so she could get her towage and storage money returned to her.
2} To scare the crap out of Casey, after which with an official report in her hand, and, payment safely secured, she would have dropped the charges.

Once things got out of control, she went on "automatic".
OMG, Caylee IS Missing ~ OMG = what IS that smell in that car ~ OMG, what did Casey DO this time ~

As far as her "story" that she was just doing whatever it took to get LE there as fast as they could ~
What's wrong with telling you have a missing and possible kidnapped toddler??
That would have brought out all available forces just as quickly, if not faster.

I agree w/the above, ESPECIALLY #2. CA preplanned calling 911. She shared this idea with a neighbor, who told someone I used to work with (and no, I don't know ANY member of the A family, although I did once see CA @ a Quest Diagnostics, and a person who looked exactly like LA at JB Park). She (CA) had the idea that calling 911 & reporting the car stolen would force KC to come home. At least this is the way my swiss-cheese brain remembers the story as told to me. I suspect that she made that hairball decision before they actually got the certified letter & went to get the car out of the impound lot. I think it completely snowballed out of control from that point on. JMO. I do realize that this contradicts what she told the FBI about why she reported the car stolen (she kind of indicated that it was a knee-jerk reaction). I'm fairly certain she is an accomplished liar.
 
I can just see Cindy taking the stand blowing a kiss and mouthing to KC "I love you". Enough to make me puke. She surely isn't going to go with the ridiculous story she told on GMA about making the phone call to get the cops there faster. Being that she blathered it all over TV, she might have to. I hope that JA is the one to question her. She surely already has it in for him for his description of how Caylee died. I think he will go straight for the jugular if she starts any nonsense. I can't wait for this hearing.
 
I think duct tape falls into that catergory...Sure, I got twins...when one cried the other was quiet and vice-versa. But, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER in a million years would I not report my child missing for 31 days, and then it was my mother who had to make the report but most of all, DUCT TAPE COVERING their AIRWAYS ! What part of this isn;t child abuse or am I reading your comment wrong. Please, if I am off base here just tell me !
I totally agree with you, Stephr. IF a child was "missing" but alive for 31 days and not reported, that would be grounds for reporting based on abandonment. Putting duct tape on a toddler anywhere, but particularly covering airways is child abuse. Using drugs or chloroform to knock a toddler unconscious is child abuse. IF she put a live child in the trunk, that would be child abuse. There are many, many things that could have been abuse, neglect or abandonment. If in doubt, call it in favor of abuse, neglect or abandonment and launch the investigation with the mandatory report. The safety of kids is first in my book. We are clearly on the same page there.

You did, however, misread my post. The mandatory reporting laws only refer to reporting the death of a child if it is determined that the death was due to abuse, neglect or abandonment. There was a condition precedent to the requirement to report the death of a child. That condition precedent is the problem. Ultimately, it is the coroner who decides if the death was due to abuse, neglect or abandonment.

The issue was what did Cindy know and when did she know it. Did Cindy believe any of the conditions precedent were present?

KC said she hadn't "seen" Caylee in 31 days. That didn't necessarily mean Caylee had been "missing" for 31 days. KC may not have "seen" Caylee for 31 days because Caylee died 31 days ago and her body was disposed of 31 days ago. (Not saying this was the fact of the case.) It could be that KC meant KC had not "seen" Caylee for 31 days because she was limiting "seen" to a live Caylee and Caylee had been dead for 31 days but was stowed part of that time in the backyard, trunk of the car and then in the forest but only the living, interactive Caylee was counted. So, maybe the facts didn't meet the statutory definition of "abandonment" because Caylee was not a "child" (a live person under the age of 18 years) after she died and during the 31 days of death between the time she died and the time KC was talking to LA and CA on July 15, 2008 did not count as an abandonment period.

Now for the abuse/neglect condition precedent. Neglect is sort of the act of omission side of abuse. The issue is did CINDY know Caylee had been chloroformed, duct taped, stuffed in the trunk and left to die? No. She didn't. In Cindy's mind, the decomp smell in the trunk and car was very scary, but she didn't have absolute proof what caused the odor and wasn't emotionally ready to believe it could be Caylee who died. Cindy preferred to take the safer route and believe Caylee was somewhere with somebody, still alive and had been missing for 31 days. As we saw above, a child who is already dead, is a "former child" whose body is not yet located, but is not a living child who is "missing." She ceased being a "child" when she died.

I really think Florida ought to amend the statute to clarify these issues.
 
Unless he's found a new place to live and a new way to get $, he'll do what she tells him to.
moooo.gif

I thought Lee & Mallory moved into a place together ... or did that change & Lee already moved back home?
 
I was thinking the Defense SHOULD try to remove their Motion, so Cindy and Lee do not have to testify at the Hearing on the 15th.
Mason misunderstood the State's Motion and he is the reason for the evidentiary Hearing on the 15th.
Mason said it was "new" info that Cindy said on GMA that she never thought there was a dead body in the car, and she only said that to get LE there faster.
If Mason had familiarized himself with this case, he would know that is not something "new" that Cindy just said on GMA last month. Cindy has said that before.
Mason also said it was "new" info that Cindy's co-workers said that Cindy came back to work and talked about the smell ... so, it couldn't be an excited utterance. Wrong again Mason. The transcripts of the co-worker's interviews have been public for a looooooong time - not new.
And Mason thinks the State is trying to have the 911 calls entered into evidence as an excited utterance - but wrong again. The State wants to use the 911 calls to show CASEY's state of mind, and the reason that Casey started her lies about the kidnapping - because of what Casey heard Cindy saying to the 911 dispatcher.
Cindy's own attorney, Conway, said that he KNOWS the 911 calls WILL BE admitted into evidence, without a doubt.
So, I hope Cindy is not stupid enough to perjure herself, when the 911 calls WILL come into evidence anyway. What's the point to lie on the stand?

It was hysterical at the hearing when Mrs. Drane Burdick explained to the judge the defense seems to be confused and to have a very poor understanding of what she said in her motion! Oh boy is that ever putting it politely!!! "These fabrications demonstrate consciousness of guilt on the part of the defendant …" Read the document:

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/23858915/detail.html
www.orlandosentinel.com

Prosecutors in the Casey Anthony case filed a document Wednesday laying out arguments for letting jurors hear 911 calls made at the very start of the child murder case in July 2008.
But in Monday's nine-page filing, Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane Burdick argues that the 911 calls made by Cindy Anthony, the defendant's mother, should be heard. The prosecutor contends that the calls help show the progression of stories Casey Anthony told to explain the disappearance of her daughter Caylee Marie.

By the third call, Cindy Anthony is crying. "I found out my granddaughter has been taken," she tells the dispatcher. "She has been missing for a month. Her, her mother finally admitted that she's been missing."
Later in that call, she says, "There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car."

The calls show how "the defendant 'created' the kidnapping story after denying there was any problem locating Caylee Marie Anthony," Burdick states. "These fabrications demonstrate consciousness of guilt on the part of the defendant …"
 
I bet GA shows up to support his son. If he doesn't show up at the hearing it's going to speak volumes.

If he's still residing with Cindy, she'll dictate what he will do. Given that, my guess is she'll make him show up, but it will be for her own selfishness, not for Lee.

I'm not convinced either George nor Cindy cared very much for Lee, at least it didn't seem like it based on her own description of his childhood years.
 
I can just see Cindy taking the stand blowing a kiss and mouthing to KC "I love you". Enough to make me puke. She surely isn't going to go with the ridiculous story she told on GMA about making the phone call to get the cops there faster. Being that she blathered it all over TV, she might have to. I hope that JA is the one to question her. She surely already has it in for him for his description of how Caylee died. I think he will go straight for the jugular if she starts any nonsense. I can't wait for this hearing.

Not only did Cindy say that ridiculous statement on GMA about getting police there faster .... Mason used Cindy's appearance on GMA and her statements in the Motion that he filed with the Court! Mason mistakenly thought this was something "new" that Cindy was spouting. So, it is highly likely that Mason will ask Cindy to repeat that stupid statement on the stand on the 15th.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4453441...se-Regarding-Admissibility-of-911-Calls_FILED
 
If I was George, I'd disown KC for her backstabbing lies. Wow how low can you go.

Why? He didn't disown her for what she "allegedly" did to Caylee. If he can stand by her after that he can tolerate anything from her. It doesn't surprise me in the least that he's still supporting her after the allegations she made.
 
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