CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

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Most people have instincts that dictate how they react. My first instinct would be to fight, kick, scream, anything to attract the attention of others or just run. But some people might just freeze when a gun or a knife is pressed to their back. Most children would do the same, it's not in their basic instinct to fight back, usually. And even if you have hammered it into them over and over to fight and scream, they are not always going to remember that, especially if a perp tells them "make a move or a sound and I'll kill you." Fear is a strong emotion and will dominate a person's mind at the moment of danger, causing them to do the exact opposite of what they've been taught.

Very true.

It has been known for a long time that the vast majority of soldiers do not shoot to kill when on the battlefield. Only 10% do. And this is after 16 weeks of basic training, in a situation where they know their own life is at stake.

It takes the military a long time to train people to the level where they will predictably shoot to kill when threatened. Over a year. And that is with full time, immersion style training.

While it can't hurt to teach kids not to comply with threats designed to take them somewhere isolated, it won't necessarily help either.

There are three main responses to immediate danger: flight, freeze or fight. The majority of people have either flight or freeze. I only know one person who consistently fights and that is my brother. Ever since he was tiny, when startled he comes around with his fists.

And as I used to joke when he was bugging the heck out of his older sister, he wasn't abused ENOUGH!

No one trained him to fight as his first response, it is just part of who he is.
 
This seems so disrespectful to Jessica and her family. Is there any value in trying to view her this way? I can only imagine that her family would prefer we remember her as a whole, bright, lovely child. I am getting seriously creeped out that anyone is purposely looking up these photos.

I'm sure LE wishes they didn't have to see her this way.
I totally agree with you. I've been creeped for days at people trying to find and view the video/photo. Glad others feel the same.
 
I just had a thought I am not sure if anyone from her neighborhood has thought of this but go through any recent photos that have been taken in their neighborhood around the park and in the streets and see if there are any strangers in any of them. Who knows how long the perp has been casing out children in that area. JMO
 
I feel like if any media outlet published a picture showing Jessica's remains, either on purpose or by accident, there would be a huge outrage. But the only ones talking about it are those on message boards, trying to figure out if they saw what they thought they saw.
 
folks: please do not post pictures of random citizens who have not been connected to this case. You can discuss RSO's but there are rules about that as well. They are listed under the opening post of this thread.

:bump:
 
Possibly someone recently released from jail on unrelated crimes?

wow....thanks for,bringing,up,this point..

a student at,our school who,went on to be abducted and murdered while,she was in college was murdered by a,guy,who,had,just,recently been released,from jail!

I am sure LE has looked at,this... But what a,sad,flashback,for me! :(

Sorry.. IPad doesn't listen to me!:banghead:
 
I just had a thought I am not sure if anyone from her neighborhood has thought of this but go through any recent photos that have been taken in their neighborhood around the park and in the streets and see if there are any strangers in any of them. Who knows how long the perp has been casing out children in that area. JMO

That is a great idea. They may even have a car in pic..with someone sitting and watching...couldn't hurt to check pics.
 
Sorry, I haven't caught up yet today so I don't know if LE released any new info.

I understand we all want to know as much as possible about the evidence. The more we know, the more we can put our sleuthing abilities to good use. LE has said Jessica's remains were not intact. For whatever reason, LE has not said anymore about the state of her remains (as far as I know).

I understand wanting to view pictures and maps of where Jessica lived, the backpack discovery & the scene where her remains were found. I don't understand how viewing pictures of this little girl's body (whatever the state) is helpful in our sleuthing. Not directing my post towards anyone. I sincerely would like to know if I'm missing something here.

JMO
 
Would a coyote try to move remains? I'm very familiar with coyotes, but I don't know the answer to this question.

Coyotes do move remains that are not in a convenient area to scavenge. They'll leave them alone and just keep going back if the remains are in a convenient location.

I don't know about Colorado coyotes but I believe they are much the same as Iowa coyotes.

Something to remember is that coyotes are territorial. With houses apparently less than a mile from where Jessica's remains were found, I would expect the coyotes to spend most of their time scavenging around the houses. Humans are so generous in providing food for the coyotes!

I wish I knew the territories of the local coyote queens. Most coyotes have a fairly large territory but concentrate their hunting in the good areas, visit their perimeters fairly frequently but also have areas that they rarely go due to consistent lack of resources in those areas.

Until last winter, I had a coyote queen in my backyard. I could tell you where her territory was, where she hunted and where the useless parts of her territory were. She lived to a good age for a coyote, maybe because I couldn't resist helping her out with a little wormer once a month.

At some point, she died and a male red fox took over her den area. He's a fine, handsome fellow but because I'm so crippled now, I couldn't begin to tell you what his territory covers.

Oh well, I am sure LE knows if her remains showed any signs of scavenger activity. They're just not choosing to share it with the public and my curiosity is not a sufficient justification for them to do so.
 
I am still not seeing the torso or limbs in the picture... and definitely not seeing anything "clearly!"
 
I am sorry I haven't been able to keep up as well as I normally do....I've been away from home, out of state, and have been trying to follow as many posts as I can while I'm here. I also miss posting more often...but its very encouraging to see everyone sharing their thoughts and ideas about Jessica's murder.

I am hoping and praying that the one responsible for this horrible crime will be found by the weekend. LE is only one break away from that little bit of information that can help them the most. I'm thrilled to see that leads are still coming in.
 
There are those who wish to know more specifics about the state of the remains beyond "not intact" so as to try and determine if the sate of the remains can be blamed upon her murderer or scavenger animals or some combination of both. There are some who feel that knowing exactly the state of the remains and if any portions are still unaccounted for will assist them in attempting to profile her killer.

I wish I knew more about the state of the remains and why they were in that state.

That said, I have no wish to see actual photos of any of it. Just me, stating MOO
 
Hello everyone! This is my first post on the JR thread but I've been a lurker since the very first thread, and a longtime websleuths lurker before that because my mom is a registered user here. I just wanted to drop in and say hello :seeya:

Anyways, I can't help but wonder what made Jessica go along with the perp as we discuss ways to stay vigilant against an abduction. My only conclusion is that she must've at least distantly known this person... just enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. IMO she seemed like a bright, caring girl and whoever it was surely took advantage of her "helper" attitude. What are y'all's thoughts on the matter.. do you think she trusted her abductor (even if only slightly) or do you think he used force to take her? I think getting to the bottom of this could really help shed some light on just how "local" this really was to her.

Welcome Ballerina,:seeya: No one saw her walking and I have read every post since she was taken. There are many sex offenders out there that have not reported their address. I wish I had LE resources but each state has a list and I will provide the link. Dru Sjodin was a beautiful, strong athlete and she was taken at a shopping mall, this site was created for her.
http://www.nsopw.gov/Core/PublicRegistrySites.aspx
 
I totally agree with you. I've been creeped for days at people trying to find and view the video/photo. Glad others feel the same.

Warning ... somewhat graphic

Without going into detail, it was only by looking that the images posted here yesterday that I came to understand the crime better. I initially thought that this crime was carried out at the location where the body was found. I no longer believe that. I also now find it easier to understand the police statement that someone in the area is responsible. It's my opinion that Jessica was taken to a building (shop, garage, home, etc.). I think that one of these locations is where she was assaulted and murdered. I suspect that she was transported to the culvert area late Friday night/early Saturday morning. I think that someone was using power tools late Friday night ... and anyone that heard this should take note ... it's not a normal time to be using power tools ... like a skill saw. Much as I did not want to see the images, after they were posted, I used them to better understand the crime scene.


jmo
 
Hi GranneDhu

OMG - the surgery about the man with the orange sounds like my dad's surgery many many years ago. When doc came to talk to us he described it as he just delivered a baby (orange). Was this in Louisiana?

Nope, it was Iowa.

Apparently it's not that uncommon in cases of obstructions in the digestive tract (I asked my dad about it during our daily call).
 
It was reported that he went UNDER the fence. Maybe they have a piece of clothing or even a thread caught on it, coupled with marks in the dirt, blood spatter, etc. where he went under. If MSM reports it, I'm going to assume they know more than I do about it. There is precious little info doled out to us, so I'm going put my faith in what is leaked to us. And I believe that everything we have learned about this case is because LE wants that info out there, even though they might not want to go on record as having said it. I think they're working very closely with the media, and the press is mindful how serious this investigation is.
This is probably going to sound nuts, but I even think they wanted the pics of the corpse out there. We've seen in other cases (IE I believe it was the Lisa Irwin case) where they called for a "no fly zone" so something like this couldn't happen. How on earth was a helicopter able to get so close to the site without the FBI noticing they were there? It's not as if the footage was taken right after the body was found and they didn't have time to cover it up when realizing the media was there, this was 5-6 hours later!

Forgive my ignorance - but was the Lisa Irwin case in the same state? If not, then it could be LE had a different protocol in place for cases such as these.
 
I'm in the I didn't see the search video camp and do not mind the photos. This will not be the first case of photos of remains. I do, however, have a level of adjustment to that where it does not bother me. I understand others are not so "desensitized". I will say that most photos of remains (whole or not intact, shot, scavenged, bludgeoned, etc...) do look exactly like television and movies portray. Shockingly so.

The photos are out there. They will viewed. I see what smooth sees when I enlarge that photo.

If you are in the camp that photos are too much, don't look for them. Don't enlarge them. Just wait until either a leak comes out, LE says more, or a murder trial comes a few years down the line, to see only the typed words.

In no way is this disrespectful to Jessica or her family. It is a part of murder that happens around us everyday.
 
Coyotes do move remains that are not in a convenient area to scavenge. They'll leave them alone and just keep going back if the remains are in a convenient location.

I don't know about Colorado coyotes but I believe they are much the same as Iowa coyotes.

Something to remember is that coyotes are territorial. With houses apparently less than a mile from where Jessica's remains were found, I would expect the coyotes to spend most of their time scavenging around the houses. Humans are so generous in providing food for the coyotes!

I wish I knew the territories of the local coyote queens. Most coyotes have a fairly large territory but concentrate their hunting in the good areas, visit their perimeters fairly frequently but also have areas that they rarely go due to consistent lack of resources in those areas.

Until last winter, I had a coyote queen in my backyard. I could tell you where her territory was, where she hunted and where the useless parts of her territory were. She lived to a good age for a coyote, maybe because I couldn't resist helping her out with a little wormer once a month.

At some point, she died and a male red fox took over her den area. He's a fine, handsome fellow but because I'm so crippled now, I couldn't begin to tell you what his territory covers.

Oh well, I am sure LE knows if her remains showed any signs of scavenger activity. They're just not choosing to share it with the public and my curiosity is not a sufficient justification for them to do so.


**GRAPHIC QUESTION**

Would the coyotes come to the scents that would be there of something freshly killed? Outside of normal territory?
 
I am not taking the media report about the perp going under the fence and placing the body in the position it was found as gospel-how would they know that? I think the media is speculating because of where the remains were found. I still think it is possible the remains were placed in the culvert and moved there by an animal or the perp could have stopped and placed the remains on the ground by lifting them over the fence. :moo:
 
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