NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #34

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Mrs G Norris said:
Possibilites;

a) EB alone, murder and disposal (not possible, AB knew, too many inconsistencies)
b) EB & AB, AB more involved in disposal than actual murder (very likely)
c) EB & AB, and at least one other person close to EB (possible, especially in discussion / planning disposal, and perhaps discovering a missing Zahra was murdered way before LE was called in)
d) EB & at least one other person close to EB, no Adam until after disposal (not likely, AB would have noticed mattress comings and goings, missing Zahra, and he wouldn't cover up).

I'm between b) and c) here.....I think another person is possible, but less likely than I think it is that it was just EB and AB.

On the third party starting to ask questions of AB and EB about the whereabouts of Zahra and getting too close to the truth, thus provoking the 'kidnapping story' and 911 call, I think that is very likely.
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These are good possibilities.

This is speculation but... IF there was a 3rd person I think it would be someone who is involved in their drug use. The threats they have been accused of so far are pretty violent and scary and that was with their own family. Imagine if someone not in their family took them for money or drugs? Getting someone who is already drugged out and scared for their life to do some dirty work would not be a far stretch. IMO

I think it's interesting that so much activity is going on at the house from 2 "tips" after weeks of investigation. They went from leaving it be to going into over drive over there. Whatever information they were given had to be pretty big. Maybe someone involved decided to start talking.

Again just speculation talk on the what ifs and maybes.
 
agathawannabe said:
This is very helpful info, Violet. Thanks!

Just to clarify something about my earlier post: when I mention BPD -- it wouldn't necessarily be an exclusive diagnosis, if she had/has it. She certainly looks (acts) like a psychopath, too. She might fit under a host of dx codes.
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Mrs G Norris said:
There is often cross over between BPD (borderline personality disorder) and ASPD (antisocial personality disorder / psychopathy / sociopathy)

Screenshot2010-08-23at42049PM.png
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Violet_Foxglove said:
I agree. When you look at the DSM many of the PD's overlap for example Anti-Social PD and Psychopathology.

But there is certainly something going on there!!
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I think all of you are right. She is nuts, not insane, but way screwed up. She knows the consequences of her actions, she just thinks whatever she needs to do to get what she wants is justifiable in her mind.
 
NCMOM said:
I think all of you are right. She is nuts, not insane, but way screwed up. She knows the consequences of her actions, she just thinks whatever she needs to do to get what she wants is justifiable in her mind.
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I think neither EB nor AB think far enough ahead to think of consequences. They both just scream "arrested developement" to me. They are both ruled by impulse, imo...whatever consequences spring from those impulses causes panic and confusion. I think that's why the fire/ransom note wasn't well thought out. In my mind, they intended to "discover" Zahra missing when police and firefighters came to the scene that morning, but one or both of them panicked thinking they hadn't covered their tracks, so that plan wasn't followed through. Plan B? Hatch a new plan. It's exactly how a child or teenager would think. JMO.
 
What exactly is a soul mate? Is it someone that approves of you & all your behaviors- someone that engages in the same activities & social functions?

It seems AB was her soul mate. He passed bad checks, ran without paying rent, ran people off the road with a car. They engaged in the same activities! Birds of a feather flock together!
 
NCMOM said:
I think all of you are right. She is nuts, not insane, but way screwed up. She knows the consequences of her actions, she just thinks whatever she needs to do to get what she wants is justifiable in her mind.
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I agree completely. She has a LOOOONG history of criminality without ever showing up for her court dates. I have NO DOUBT this woman felt 'above the law'.

As a Psychopath, she would use people until they ceased to be 'useful' to her anymore...at which point she would 'move on' trying to find someone who she believed would be better suited in helping her accomplish her goals.

I would love to hear the opinions of some friends or family on this topic!

I also believe that this attitude would have led her to 'mastermind' the disposal of poor Zahra's body.

I have no doubt (although no evidence either!) that this crime was comitted by EB and AB. ONE of them disposed of her and her precious leg.

I am sure they believed that disposing of her body was paramount and her leg was disposed of as an afterthought.

Sooo Sad! :(
 
Violet_Foxglove said:
Yes, because it appears one had virtually no contact with her and the other two were willing to be in court to request that she not be freed.

That speaks volumes to me! JMO!
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AF and BS are her only daughters, right? Zahra was her step daughter. Am I adding up 3 in your post?
 
Violet_Foxglove said:
Hi all,

I don't know whether this has been posted byt it seems that AB has hired a local lawyer named Mark Killian.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/29/more-evidence-taken-home-ar-492127/

I have been MIA for most of the last two days...so forgive me if it's a duplicate!
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M. Killian does do criminal law.

http://www.killianlawnc.com/Firm Info/Lawyers/1405083.aspx

Also in this article it confirms that Dubs is a provisional counsel that was taken on to represent EB if murder charges are filed against her in the future. Was she assigned when EB was declared indigent?

(In a previous article it implied that Dubs was representing her on the obstruction charges, she's not that's S. Reilly).

AB was bonded out by a bondswoman with Plan B Bail Bonds.

No provisional attorney appointed by North Carolina Indigent Defense Services for Adam Baker as of yet.

Question? He hasn't had a hearing yet has he? I'm trying to figure out if Killian was assigned because of indigency or was retained/working pro bono (the last two options would be the same category in my head right this minute).

This is important. Is the link Violet posted on the media thread? It needs to be, we are going to need this info.

IMHO. :)
 
NCMOM said:
AB and BS are her only daughters, right? Zahra was her step daughter. Am I adding up 3 in your post?
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Daughters: AF and BS -- were in the courtroom for bond hearing; AF testified.

Son: DP -- claims to have been estranged from EB for years.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
We have (and still are) considering that option. But I think, wisely, we haven't moved forward with it because fostering/adopting an older child who has been in foster care for some time brings a special set of challenges. We would have to be absolutely certain we could meet those challenges before we ever moved forward with something like that. To offer a child like that hope, and then discover we fell short of meeting their needs...not an option. So, it's a painstaking thought process for us. But, it's not off the table, not at all. We're just taking it slow.
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I totally understand. I wish you the best!
 
Violet_Foxglove said:
I agree completely. She has a LOOOONG history of criminality without ever showing up for her court dates. I have NO DOUBT this woman felt 'above the law'.

As a Psychopath, she would use people until they ceased to be 'useful' to her anymore...at which point she would 'move on' trying to find someone who she believed would be better suited in helping her accomplish her goals.

I would love to hear the opinions of some friends or family on this topic!

I also believe that this attitude would have led her to 'mastermind' the disposal of poor Zahra's body.

I have no doubt (although no evidence either!) that this crime was comitted by EB and AB. ONE of them disposed of her and her precious leg.

I am sure they believed that disposing of her body was paramount and her leg was disposed of as an afterthought.

Sooo Sad! :(
Click to expand...


As far as her behavior in the past from her family, I have heard some stories second hand. Like, AB thought EB was pregnant with twins when she was arrested, when in fact, EB had a hysterectomy years before she had met AB.
To say she was a master of manipulation, is putting it mildly.
 
Paulette said:
What exactly is a soul mate? Is it someone that approves of you & all your behaviors- someone that engages in the same activities & social functions?

It seems AB was her soul mate. He passed bad checks, ran without paying rent, ran people off the road with a car. They engaged in the same activities! Birds of a feather flock together!
Click to expand...

Yes.

Now can you imagine what the criminal record of the "one true love" who made her what she is must look like!
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Possibilites;

a) EB alone, murder and disposal (not possible, AB knew, too many inconsistencies)
b) EB & AB, AB more involved in disposal than actual murder (very likely)
c) EB & AB, and at least one other person close to EB (possible, especially in discussion / planning disposal, and perhaps discovering a missing Zahra was murdered way before LE was called in)
d) EB & at least one other person close to EB, no Adam until after disposal (not likely, AB would have noticed mattress comings and goings, missing Zahra, and he wouldn't cover up).

I'm between b) and c) here.....I think another person is possible, but less likely than I think it is that it was just EB and AB.

On the third party starting to ask questions of AB and EB about the whereabouts of Zahra and getting too close to the truth, thus provoking the 'kidnapping story' and 911 call, I think that is very likely.
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Purely from your list of possibilities at this time, I would probably lean towards Door # 4 or is it d)

and or

d) if it's ok to add to the possibilities...
(i) Failed, Bungled Kidnapping Extortion attempt to win a million probably at the spur of the moment.

As to a possibility of AB to be included...I strongly doubt it.

In reference to Failed, Faked, in a hurry Ransom Note.

If I would be able to translate that into a language I could understand....let me see :waitasec:
In my own opinion or point of view with possibilities the Ransom might be translated like this.
We got your kid Adam, go run to your American Dad, Boss Man and see if he can help you with that problem. No cops bud or your next. Ask your Boss for some money....and you can see your daughter.

Now translated like that, I would not even want to consider how emotionally shut down or publicly shy I would be.

That's based on the ransom note, not if or how he landed on the moon or made it to the USA in a minivan and fake passport. Also it leaves a grim picture for Z and possibly a big point to the door for AB.
 
agathawannabe said:
Daughters: AF and BS -- were in the courtroom for bond hearing; AF testified.

Son: DP -- claims to have been estranged from EB for years.
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Oh crap! Thanks, I forgot about him! Yes, apparently he hasn't talked to her in a very long time. BS had not been around her for 7 months apparently. Thanks for the help!
 
I think there are many layers to this crime.
The obvious first layer is Zahra is missing (presumed dead since LE are calling it a homicide investigation).
The second layer-an obvious cover up was planned and attempted by EB (we know this since she confessed to the ransom note) and AB is possibly complicit in this charade! (He is IMO)
Another layer-the drugs! Who used, who used what, who was the supplier and who were the users!
Another layer-Who knew about Zahra's abuse-Who really did something and what did they do.
Another layer apparently involves a relationship EB was having online and obtaining money from. (according to her daughter at the bond hearing and I'm sure LE has verified or they would not have asked AF about it) How this ties in or if it ties in or if AB knew - not sure at this time.
*Not going any further on this relationship or sleuthing it till Tricia says it's OK to!!
Another layer-the possibility of illegally coming and staying in the US.
Another layer-the bio-mother and how her discovery of Zahra fits into this! And that may have its own layers!!
I'm sure there is more that LE knows and we are only scratching the surface of the first layer and the most important one!! Where is Zahra????:banghead:
 
suppose this "One True Love" goes way back, and suppose that "One True Love" share a deep secret, of something he did, or he shared it with her one time. She kills Z and calls him to help. He knows he has to or she will rat him out. As long as he now gives her the attention, she will rot in jail for him.
 
agathawannabe said:
Yes.

Now can you imagine what the criminal record of the "one true love" who made her what she is must look like!
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As in her 1st true love? Someone she spent the bulk of her adult life with, say an ex? Am I being elusive enough not to get into trouble. Hmm, how about one of her many listed names shares this person in common?
 
Lera213 said:
suppose this "One True Love" goes way back, and suppose that "One True Love" share a deep secret, of something he did, or he shared it with her one time. She kills Z and calls him to help. He knows he has to or she will rat him out. As long as he now gives her the attention, she will rot in jail for him.
Click to expand...

She wouldn't rot for long alone, if he didn't pamper her though. If he continued to move on, like re-marry, she would find out. No statue of limitations on murder.
 
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