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Cubby said:

I don't know what the source was for the inaccuracy, but I think BK would have or should have corrected the reporter and at least ask those with inaccurate info to update their sites stating such inaccurate info.

It does no good for the credibility of Mr. Kyles case to continuously bring inaccurate info to new media reports.

I do not believe, nor am I saying, Mr. Kyles case is not credible, but inaccurate information imo hinders rather than helps finding his id.

jmo

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I hear you. I agree with your last paragraph. BBM

I think a problem with the inaccuracy, is Mr. Kyle believes he was assaulted even if police reports and other reports do not substantiate that belief. Thus because he believes it is so, it is reported as accurate with the implication it has been verified by police reports rather than being reported as Mr. Kyle believes he was assualted prior to his being found kind of thing.

JMO.

maplestreet.jd@gmail.com

"If you haven't seen on the main wall recently I have posted a series of comments regarding two possibilities as to why no one has come forward. It should be said and believed that even the most crazy ideas are often true. Don't believe me? Then look at what astronomers find everyday. Who knew that there really would be background radiation from the supposed Big Bang?

It is important that everyone who are fans of this page know that there should be no room for quaint ditties of dialogue from anyone. This is serious matter filled with moral and ethical dilemmas. It is an enigma, but not unsolvable. The chances that he will be recognized are 6,000,000,000 to 1, but it only takes that 1 to change the who direction that this has been going on for.

There can be no room on this page for anyone to be quaint. This is not a hobby! THIS IS NOT FUN! This is very serious. We're talking about a man's past and future. This man thinks, breathes, eats, and lives. He has feelings and a soul. What if he were to come onto this page right now and see what people talk about on here every day. Of course he's going to see that we're all talking about him, but HOW are we talking about him?

"Oh, poor guy." "I wish I could help him, maybe I'll pretend that I can help him and make myself feel better." Some of those who are fans of this page are likely to think these things, but I have no doubt that there are those who really do care about this man and we should, with every ounce in our body. We SHOULD be asking questions and imply and implore for an answer. Nothing should be held back! Everything should be pursued, no matter how far-fetched it may sound. And I mean EVERYTHING! Leave nothing out!

Those who are not here to help with everything they have should just immediately drop it and no longer be a fan of this page. These types of individuals have nothing to do here otherwise. I'll say it again... THIS IS SERIOUS!

I will wait for ten days before posting anything else on this page in the hopes that by that time those who are being quaint and who are looking for attention will have changed their ways or will have discontinued their fanaticism to this page.

During the ten days I will be looking into this matter and read anything that comes across me on this page and elsewhere, reading comments and responses and those that would be directed toward myself from those of you here. I'm looking forward to all your responses, whether they be in support or against the above statements.

All those who will ACTUALLY give this their all please respond to me here or through my email which I will give here at the end of this post."

Bold by me.

Come to think of it, there have been quite a few inconsistencies in Mr. Kyles story:

-No police report.
-He had to pay some outrageous sum of money to obtain his medical reports, when someone from the hospital clearly stated that the hospital gave him his records without charge.
-IIRC the savanah paper was going to sue people for using his photo without credit, and that was cleared up somehow.... I don't recall exactly how.

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From my previous post. Another thing that has been 'evaded' by Mr. Kyle with coming forth with a direct answer, is his restaurant knowledge. Why is that? Clearly their is a big difference between someone who say, sold paper and plastic products, to repaired or installed equipment, to managed a restaurant.

Clearly Mr. Kyle knows his area of expertise within the industry, but despite being asked several times over the course of a few years, that knowledge is still a mystery as he has never answered the question.

I am confused--where is this from?

believe09 said:

maplestreet.jd@gmail.com

"If you haven't seen on the main wall recently I have posted a series of comments regarding two possibilities as to why no one has come forward. It should be said and believed that even the most crazy ideas are often true. Don't believe me? Then look at what astronomers find everyday. Who knew that there really would be background radiation from the supposed Big Bang?

It is important that everyone who are fans of this page know that there should be no room for quaint ditties of dialogue from anyone. This is serious matter filled with moral and ethical dilemmas. It is an enigma, but not unsolvable. The chances that he will be recognized are 6,000,000,000 to 1, but it only takes that 1 to change the who direction that this has been going on for.

There can be no room on this page for anyone to be quaint. This is not a hobby! THIS IS NOT FUN! This is very serious. We're talking about a man's past and future. This man thinks, breathes, eats, and lives. He has feelings and a soul. What if he were to come onto this page right now and see what people talk about on here every day. Of course he's going to see that we're all talking about him, but HOW are we talking about him?

"Oh, poor guy." "I wish I could help him, maybe I'll pretend that I can help him and make myself feel better." Some of those who are fans of this page are likely to think these things, but I have no doubt that there are those who really do care about this man and we should, with every ounce in our body. We SHOULD be asking questions and imply and implore for an answer. Nothing should be held back! Everything should be pursued, no matter how far-fetched it may sound. And I mean EVERYTHING! Leave nothing out!

Those who are not here to help with everything they have should just immediately drop it and no longer be a fan of this page. These types of individuals have nothing to do here otherwise. I'll say it again... THIS IS SERIOUS!

I will wait for ten days before posting anything else on this page in the hopes that by that time those who are being quaint and who are looking for attention will have changed their ways or will have discontinued their fanaticism to this page.

During the ten days I will be looking into this matter and read anything that comes across me on this page and elsewhere, reading comments and responses and those that would be directed toward myself from those of you here. I'm looking forward to all your responses, whether they be in support or against the above statements.

All those who will ACTUALLY give this their all please respond to me here or through my email which I will give here at the end of this post."

Bold by me.

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Julessleuther said:

I am confused--where is this from?

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Pretty sure it came from here Benjaman Kyle - "The BK Doe" - Help Solve this Real-Life Mystery

see John Antesberger III

believe09 said:

Statement of purpose on the facebook page and contact infomaplestreet.jd@gmail.com

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BBM

From the statement of purpose believe posted from the FB page.

If you haven't seen on the main wall recently I have posted a series of comments regarding two possibilities as to why no one has come forward

Click to expand...

I'm newer to FB and couldn't find any statements from this user on the wall. Did I miss them or were they possibly removed?

Can someone direct me to them if they are still there?

Cubby said:

BBM. Why would Mr. Kyle say there is no police report, no police report was made?

Now clearly, Mr. Kyle KNOWS there was a police report when he was found. Why would he lie about that?

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All of the known facts should be in the link in my sig.

.

Thank you Roselvr. Then the fiction which came into this case was based on NB's theories rather than the facts from the police reports and the medical records.

That is why I asked too, I have two of his Fb accounts and saw nothing about this on either of those sites.

I do not know if this is the correct place for this, but since there has been much discussion about things, I am putting it here:


Believe and Cubby--

You two (along with Dream and Christine) are the people I respect most here at WS. I have worked with both of you on several cases and trust your judgement and guidance. You are smart, compassionate, knowledgable...you are just cool people. You are voicing things that have been floating around in my head for some time, but I was afraid to speak up about because people here would think I was a loon. I agree with you that there are so many puzzles to this situation, and that BK is not getting the "right" advice at all times. His case is completely solvable, there are so many avenues that could/should have been explored but for whatever reason were/are not. It is frustrating all around. I hope that you come back Believe. I will miss your insight here, but at the same time, I respect your need to take a break (for however long). You have worked very hard here, and deserve that break.

So...what do we do now? I am confused and frustrated. I know noone can tell me what to do, but I guess I am wondering peoples mindset on all this that has come to light.

Do we keep looking? Do we explore the Davidson angle? Is this a goose chase? If a direct connection is made, would BK even pursue it?

Do we believe the memories and look in those places? Could they be disjointed, convoluted memories, or completely incorrect all together?

Do we trust the DNA evidence? Davidsons...Powells. There still has to be a missing person somewhere, and we have not found that missing person. Why?

What does FBI Bill think? Is he even still involved? I have wondered for a long time why there has not been more of an LE presence in this case.

A lot of people, out of the goodness of their hearts have worked on this case. Noone asked them (us) to, we just did it because we want to help. BK does not need to be beholden to us, he did not ask us to help. He only has to be accountable for himself. But...if he does want help, he has to trust that we truly do have the best intentions in helping him. I KNOW to my very core that Believe, Cubby, Dream, Rose, Carolwood, and others are here, spending hour after hour because they want to help you (BK). Please believe that we can help you, and give us the tools to do that search.

For a long time now, (and I do not believe that this is BK's personal thinking, just a general attitude) I have felt that we are an annoyance to "some". Comments have been made that questions have been asked "ad nauseam" and that he is tired of answering them. I do not truly believe that is true...if he truly wants to be found, these questions are the key to finding the answers. Some questions would be a nuisance, but still necessary. It could only take one question, perhaps one that has been asked before, to trigger a memory, a thought. I can understand that having this situation over ones head 24 hours a day can be frustrating, but to find the answer in ONE of those questions would make every single question asked a million times worth it. I would hate to think that some of these questions are not asked of him because people have other motives. I would also hate to think that all of these questions are irrelevant because we are not getting the "whole" story. I for one, if I am to continue here, will start to ask those difficult questions that may need to be asked. I appaud you Cubby and Believe for voicing some of those questions/concerns and I hope that BK is brave enough to answer them. We are not trying to hurt you BK, we are trying to help you.

For the record, we know inequivocally, that he was not assaulted? I have been unclear on this for awhile. What is the theory then of how he was found? This too, may be a key to some of the answers.

Does BK even want to be found? If so, where do we go from here? I think for me the fact that BK seems to have given up and is ready to just live this life is sad. What about everything he was before? This is only six years of his new life. What about that old life? What about his family? Friends? Was he so disconnected from them before that it does not matter? Or is it just that he does not remember, so does not have any emotional responsibility to them? BK--if you read this--please do not give up. I know that this is such a frustrating situation, but there IS an answer out there. Somewhere there is family who spent holidays with you, loved you, that I hope you loved back. I guess for me the answer is not to keep working on this, but why would we not? Until there is a family reconnected, he (BK) has a choice to make, a responsibility to make to everything he was before. Perhaps he was father. Perhaps a brother, a husband, a son. He WAS someone. He is someone now, but not complete. It is more than just getting a social security number and getting a job. It is getting a life. He does odd jobs for others, lives with someone, etc but does not have a complete life. If I were in his shoes I would not stop until the day I dropped dead. Those six years that you have now, have brought new people to you. But, you, BK, are missing so much. Grandchildren, nieces, weddings, and deaths, from your old life. Education, a career, perhaps something as simple as a dog. Out there is a dog waiting for you to come home.

(Stepping on my soapbox here: Are there people who are not taking what we do here seriously and who mock our abilities? I do not have a PH.d in Physics, but I know I am one smart cookie. I do not like to work with LE, but I have become a fairly decent researcher, AND I do it for free. People in the "know" should be jumping all over people like Believe, Cubby, me, and all you fine people here you volunteer your time. We could be using our energies elsewhere, but chose to use them here. I am tired of people (some in LE) not taking what we do here seriously. We are a great group of people, a smart group. We do have value here, we do work very hard to find answers, and we deserve respect and admiration from the investigators and families who are seeking answers. I am tired of someone like Believe, who is just plain awesome, from getting burned out and frustrated because she is not valued for the work she does. It is time for some respect people--we deserve it. For example. That reporter that Believe was corresponding with. They were so smug to Believe, and yet they do not know 1/2 of 1% of the facts that she does. They cannot even get their story straight! Unbelievable! ---Stepping off soapbox)

Cubby said:

From the statement of purpose believe posted from the FB page.



I'm newer to FB and couldn't find any statements from this user on the wall. Did I miss them or were they possibly removed?

Can someone direct me to them if they are still there?

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Ok Rose, I found it, thank you. It appears that his comments were removed from the wall, however, and just remain in discussion.

Roselvr said:

Pretty sure it came from here Benjaman Kyle - "The BK Doe" - Help Solve this Real-Life Mystery

see John Antesberger III



BBM

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Jules, Thank you so much for taking the time to post your last message.

I don't know that I have all the answers, but I can add some thoughts.

First, let me share my experience, little as it is with Colleen Fitzpatrick. She is an amazing, brilliant woman. She is kind, easy to speak with and she was even so kind as to share some science projects my 1st grade son might be interested in, which she did not have to take the time. I do not think she dismisses us in any way. My perception is she has a path for which she has a passion and knowledge, thus she chooses to investigate that path. She has a great many interests, thus she chooses to pursue the avenue of research which interests her most, and that may simply differ from some of the research avenues we have discussed and theorized here.

I don't know right know about the rest. I simply don't. There are too many misconceptions, false information and opportunities for Mr. Kyle to help himself out there that has for one reason or the other been ignored.

I can't speak for Mr. Kyle, but he is a grown man. He is capable of helping himself. He is not a young minor child which needs coddling and protection. Yes, he is a 'victim', but he is also a grown man capable of utilizing whatever resources he has available to him. Some, we find he has likely not taken advantage of which could help his circumstances tremendously. One which comes to mind wa the story that he would have to claim illegal immigrant status to obtain a temporary ID or temporary social security card of somekind. I personally am questioning the accuracy of that statement, as so many have been proven false. Imo, believe09 was kind, perhaps too kind, in her description of the information she posted regarding the judge or someone (I forget the term she used) which would allow him to work and get id etc. It was something to do with hardship that I recall believe09 explaining.

BK alone is responsible for the accuracy or inaccuracies of his story. While theories on message boards, blogs, comments sections of unmoderated media outlets etc. may go in many different directions. Clarification of these misconceptions could easily be overcome when Mr. Kyle is interviewed by media. Yet, they are not and have not. There is a reason for that..... we just don't know what it is..

I just don't know right now. I think for myself, the truth should be pursued, whichever angle that truth lands us.

That's all that is on my mind with this for now. I think I will continue to seek the truth here, but as believe suggested, there are many many unsolved cases here which could use our dedication and attention.

Respectfully and thanks to ALL of you wonderful sleuths, the ones Jules mentioned and others... who are so awesome, you have taught me too! I am honored to be a part of WS and sleuthing with you.

Julessleuther said:

Ok Rose, I found it, thank you. It appears that his comments were removed from the wall, however, and just remain in discussion.

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I was trying to figure who owns/runs this FB link. I don't think it is Colleen, it may be NB, but that is just a guess.... Much of it was started about Sept 2009. A lot is copied from Colleens Wiki stuff..... but I just don't think it belongs to Colleen.

Unless the comments on the wall were incredibly derogatory, I wonder why they were removed? Which leads me to wonder, where they removed because they did not fit in with whomever is running this FB pages theory?

JMVHO

Woo Cubby, we are on the same wave length today!! I too, wonder who runs this, and why those comments were removed. I do feel that that guy who posted in discussion is ridiculous and I do not consider him relevant.

As far as above, I was not singling out Colleen Fitzpatrick. I have great admiration for the work she does, I just wonder why there is not more fact checking...or maybe there is more that we are not being told? I just think that some look at us as a joke and that is so wrong. I think I am just so frustrated and disheartened. (O/T There is another case that is near and dear to my heart where the LE speaks about WS in a derogatory manner (and frankly, IMO I feel we have done more work than they have! But I digress.) I guess it just makes me so sad that someone like Believe has to walk away from this because she has not been given the respect she deserves. She has done nothing but try to genuinely help and find answers. I was just singling out Believe and Cubby in their remarks, but I too, agree that there are so many here who have helped and also deserve respect and admiration. :blowkiss: I would be sad to see any of you go. We make a great team here, and I am honored.


Listen up all you doubters... We are not some bored housewives who do this just to take away some supposed boredom. We take this seriously. I have an extremely busy schedule, but take time out of MY day to help here, and I know all of you do too. We do this because we genuinely care. We do it to make a difference and to bring families together. We are all here for many reasons, but we are here, as a team, and we are trying to help you.

Cubby said:

I was trying to figure who owns/runs this FB link. I don't think it is Colleen, it may be NB, but that is just a guess.... Much of it was started about Sept 2009. A lot is copied from Colleens Wiki stuff..... but I just don't think it belongs to Colleen.

Unless the comments on the wall were incredibly derogatory, I wonder why they were removed? Which leads me to wonder, where they removed because they did not fit in with whomever is running this FB pages theory?

JMVHO

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OT regarding your comment about LE Jules.

There is another case that is near and dear to my heart where the LE speaks about WS in a derogatory manner

There is a LOT we do here which is wonderful. Sometimes LE is very appreciative, other times I think they are simply embarrased a civilian found more than they did rather than appreciating tips and info from the public. We have all run into those walls. Heck, there is a case here in the UID section were LE is running into brick walls with another agency because a tip doesn't or did not fit in with their theory.

There are many great LE departments who appreciate and respect the help we offer...

and for those who don't. I just have to say I have a lot of patience as a Cub fan.... and there will be that moment the page turns, and they will have to eat their words. It will happen, not a matter of if, just when.

peace

Julessleuther said:

So...what do we do now? I am confused and frustrated. I know noone can tell me what to do, but I guess I am wondering peoples mindset on all this that has come to light.

Do we keep looking? Do we explore the Davidson angle? Is this a goose chase? If a direct connection is made, would BK even pursue it?

Do we believe the memories and look in those places? Could they be disjointed, convoluted memories, or completely incorrect all together?

Do we trust the DNA evidence? Davidsons...Powells. There still has to be a missing person somewhere, and we have not found that missing person. Why?

Click to expand...

My :twocents:

It's been a long time since he was found. He may never get back the memories; and who knows if he knows what is fact any more and what is not. What changed my mind about everything is Juan Doe.

I don't doubt that a lot of people are burned out including Benjaman. While he does post here; he's not here a lot & I don't know if it's because he is tired of dealing with this and just wants to move on or if he doesn't have a lot of time. It also can be because of the documentary; I'd imagine he signed an exclusive deal with them.

Personally; I can understand if he is burned out & can understand if he wants to go back to his present life without press; do what he needs to do to get a social security number & live his life. Maybe he thinks he will never have his old life back & maybe he doesn't have an old life to go back to. My opinion is he's probably adopted and his adoptive parents could be gone. I also think they could have immigrated to the US; I don't have any family here due to that and can understand if he's in the same boat as me.

With my own family problems I can understand that maybe it's better if he just lives the life he has. He's happy; has a roof over his head & is taking care of himself.

.

Thanks for keeping it real Cubby, you are right!

Cubby said:

OT regarding your comment about LE Jules.

There is another case that is near and dear to my heart where the LE speaks about WS in a derogatory manner

There is a LOT we do here which is wonderful. Sometimes LE is very appreciative, other times I think they are simply embarrased a civilian found more than they did rather than appreciating tips and info from the public. We have all run into those walls. Heck, there is a case here in the UID section were LE is running into brick walls with another agency because a tip doesn't or did not fit in with their theory.

There are many great LE departments who appreciate and respect the help we offer...

and for those who don't. I just have to say I have a lot of patience as a Cub fan.... and there will be that moment the page turns, and they will have to eat their words. It will happen, not a matter of if, just when.

peace

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Roselvr said:

My :twocents:

It's been a long time since he was found. He may never get back the memories; and who knows if he knows what is fact any more and what is not. What changed my mind about everything is Juan Doe.

I don't doubt that a lot of people are burned out including Benjaman. While he does post here; he's not here a lot & I don't know if it's because he is tired of dealing with this and just wants to move on or if he doesn't have a lot of time. It also can be because of the documentary; I'd imagine he signed an exclusive deal with them.

Personally; I can understand if he is burned out & can understand if he wants to go back to his present life without press; do what he needs to do to get a social security number & live his life. Maybe he thinks he will never have his old life back & maybe he doesn't have an old life to go back to. My opinion is he's probably adopted and his adoptive parents could be gone. I also think they could have immigrated to the US; I don't have any family here due to that and can understand if he's in the same boat as me.

With my own family problems I can understand that maybe it's better if he just lives the life he has. He's happy; has a roof over his head & is taking care of himself.

.

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I fully agree. There would be nothing wrong with BK stating, I've had enough and am moving on with my life. He has the resources to move out of whatever situation he is in...... He is not being held against his will. He is free to come and go when and if he so chooses and pursue the avenues available to him as he so chooses.

I'd be very ok with him just saying it is time I move on and I wish to keep my private life private.

however, as long as he is still being quoted in the media, as he was a few days ago, I think that is somewhat of an indication he is still either interested in finding his identity, or he simply does not know how to say no to those who have done so much for him over the last 5 or so years.

'Chitty' if perhaps BK feels obligated to continue to open a part of his life he would prefer kept private. I think, based on what he has shared with us, his preference would be to go back to just being an average joe, with his privacy. I respect that. I hope, if that is the case, he will find the courage to speak those words.


Who knows, only he does.

This question was asked a few posts back, "For the record, we know inequivocally, that he was not assaulted? I have been unclear on this for awhile. What is the theory then of how he was found? This too, may be a key to some of the answers"

Not followed this case like you all have, but I have not seen where unequivocally there was not an assault. Also, sounds like he did not have alcohol problem, because of his general health, liver function etc... was good as well.
As you have said, he still deserves a name, so who cares really? Hope you understand my intentions are good.

If we are to trust the police reports that believe09 has stated she has seen, as well as Richmond PD and the first medical responders, as well as the facts- from roselovers siggy line, here is the direct link:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4381159#post4381159"]Starting from scratch - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


there was never anything to indicate he was assaulted. There were no outside depressions in his head..

Maybe we have to wait for the links to be posted of the documents regarding Mr. Kyles case which were obtainted via the FOIA, or freedom of info act.

I think they still may be forthcoming?