Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #2

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JenniferTx said:
I agree with you on the fact that she would have lost control of her bodily functions if she had hung herself. When I found my first husband after he hung himself he had lost control of his bodily functions. I don't think she killed herself. I think she was murdered and it was an attempt to make it look like a suicide.
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Immeasurably sorry you went through this. :hug: Thank you for sharing.
 
pferrin said:
When police arrived she was face down in the grass..if he did start CPR..then that is a weird position. She does seem mighty far away from balcony.
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Yeah, I never understood why she would be face down if he tried to resuscitate her.

I'm not sure now if we know had she just died or not? Early on, I quoted an article that made it sound like she was still alive - I didn't think it was the same as other articles that said she was in distress but possibly. If so, then it is meaningless and she could have been dead for hours.

Anyone know more about TOD? I wondered earlier if she was in rigor and maybe that's why her legs are bent, possibly even from a drop from the balcony.

Right now, we don't even know she actually died from the hanging do we?

I don't really suspect Adam, at least not that he murdered her. A thought just popped in my head though. What if he found her and called someone else before he called 911?
 
mrsu said:
But he did say he "cut her down".
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I cant remember exactly what LE said he said now, Mrsu.

But imo he either unwound the knot holding the rope attached to the balcony or he cut it. The cord is still long and can be seen in the photos of her body.



IMO
 
Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240


Ocean ..to me this is why the anger on her part doesnt make any sense..she had told her sis that she was going to hospital next day..she didnt tell her sis she was angry..I will find link on how body was found by police..be back soon.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Why the brother? Adam had just come into town to be with his brother once Max became gravely injured.

IMO
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Just a feeling I get when I heard their relationship described (brothers) not Rebecca. We'll see, it won't be long before all the forensics are back. Either way it is tragic.

ETA: And for the fact that he was the one that found her, supposedly cut her down so if his DNA found he could use that. I am very curious to know if she was sexually assaulted. I do not for one second believe she did this to herself.
 
time said:
What link is it? I thought you were referring to the journal article on naked suicides.
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I was and those are actual suicides not deaths that occur accidentally through sex play games.

IMO
 
Seek&Find said:
Immeasurably sorry you went through this. :hug: Thank you for sharing.
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I have no problems talking about it since I know I will never be able to forget this tragic event so I might as well talk about it to try and help others. My first husband wasn't nude when I found him hanging in the closet but he did only have underwear on when I found him. I don't think she killed herself because it almost sounds like it was staged. I mean if you were going to kill yourself why do it in the nude and also outside.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I think he unwound the rope that was attached to the balcony then held onto the rope and lowered her gently to the ground then rushed down and picked her up and put her in the soft grass area and unloosened the makeshift noose.

IMO
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To untie the rope and lower her to the ground would have meant that he would have had to bend WAY OVER on that balcony to get her all the way to the ground. I don't think that rope was long enough for him to be physically able to do that - he would have bent way over the iron railing and still would have had to let her go at one point.

Plus, he did say he cut her down.

Wish we had more info. Where were all the major players when Adam found her? Was the ex-wife/mother at the hospital? Was the father at the hospital? Did any of the staff of the house stay at the house or did they all live elsewhere - sometimes with mansions this big there is a caretaker or maid that will live in one of the guest houses and be on call 24/7.

The report of a "party" or "loud music" is unsettling too. With a small child in the hospital on life support WHO in their right mind would be playing loud music or, heaven forbid, be hosting a party?

And the bit about the "Hot Diggity Dogs" guy and boarding the dog?

This is defnintely very strange all the way around.
 
pferrin said:
Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240


Ocean ..to me this is why the anger on her part doesn't make any sense..she had told her sis that she was going to hospital next day..she didn't tell her sis she was angry..I will find link on how body was found by police..be back soon.
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Ahh but we can never trust what a suicidal person says they are going to do. My daughter's friend told my daughter they were going to have lunch together but imo she had no intentions of ever meeting her. She had already made plans to kill herself and did.

So what if Rebecca was really being told that it was best she didn't come to the hospital? She wouldn't want to tell her family that imo.

I am sure they were asking her had she seen him yet so she said she was going to 'tomorrow' because she knew 'tomorrow' was never going to happen.

IMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you. Do you have a MSM article saying the same thing as deathby1000papercuts?

imo
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Looking...found this article, doesn't say face down, but does say:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327

Authorities discovered Zahau's body on Wednesday after a houseguest, Adam Shacknai, told police he found her completely naked with a rope around her neck hanging from a balcony off the main house.
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When police arrived at the historic Spreckels Mansion, owned by Shacknai's brother Jonah Shacknai, Zahau's multimillionaire boyfriend, they found the 32-year-old's body on the lawn in the backyard. Shacknai told them he had cut her down.
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Zahau's hands were bound behind her back and her feet were bound, but her hands and feet did not appear ever to have been bound together, police said. Though Adam Shacknai said she was hanging from a rope, investigators did not disclose what kind of material bound her hands and feet.

The home's balcony, which lies outside of a bedroom, is about 10 to 15 feet from the ground. Police were not immediately aware how Zahau's body would have been anchored if, indeed, it had been hanging.
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pferrin said:
Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240


Ocean ..to me this is why the anger on her part doesnt make any sense..she had told her sis that she was going to hospital next day..she didnt tell her sis she was angry..I will find link on how body was found by police..be back soon.
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Also, I hope everyone will head the author in taking any conclusions from this research:
Given the dearth of information available about naked suicide, this article is offered as an initial exploration of this topic. It is hoped that letters to the editor and case reports in response will stimulate discourse about this little understood phenomenon.
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This is exploratory research, not any unified theory or in depth research on the topic - that's typical when a topic hasn't been researched much and there is no rich body of work to reference on the actual topic. This is why the author says. "anecdotal evidence indicates that it occurs more frequently with hanging, overdose, or drowning, but to a lesser extent in jumping deaths. " Those are hedge words in research. There is no way to know how strong this anecdotal evidence is or if it would stand up in further research.

In sum, these are the only conclusions this author is making:

Conclusions

What is the significance of naked suicide? Can the individual's nakedness provide insight into his or her psyche at the time of death? Can such knowledge assist clinicians in the treatment of patients who have attempted suicide while naked? Naked suicide attempts and completions remain largely unexplored, both by clinicians and in the professional literature. The percentage of suicides that are completed while naked is unknown. Individuals who make naked suicide attempts should be considered at high risk for suicide. In the author's clinical experience, deliberate self-harm behaviors are usually not inflicted while naked. Naked suicide attempts are high-risk events, especially when the underlying fantasy is death and rebirth.

A psychological autopsy may uncover the meaning of a naked suicide. In the mosaic of factors associated with suicide attempts and completions, nakedness or the state of dishabille is a piece, sometimes a critical piece, of evidence. Forensic psychiatrists and treating clinicians who encounter naked suicide attempts or completed suicides are afforded a unique opportunity to further the understanding of this little understood phenomenon.
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I think it's an interesting article, but there are no statistics in this article that are definitive. There is a small amount of discussion about committing naked suicide when the method is hanging. Maybe some on committing suicide in public naked and so on.... but what we have is

a woman
hanging
bound
naked
very public

Not to mention the other possible factors, e.g., like one poster mentioned that Rebecca would probably not want to put Jonah through further grief.
 
Quester said:
That's right - we don't!

We need more info/facts.
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I think we are pretty safe to say the COD will be death by hanging. The ME wouldn't need weeks to determine that imo.

What they are waiting on is to see if she had alcohol or drugs in her system at the time and if they found them in the room she stayed in or scattered about on her dresser. Imo if found they will test the bottles for fingerprints.

Where they found her clothing will tell them whether they were ripped off or simply taken off and dropped in a neat pile or laid across her bed.

IMO
 
Wise Old Owl said:
To untie the rope and lower her to the ground would have meant that he would have had to bend WAY OVER on that balcony to get her all the way to the ground. I don't think that rope was long enough for him to be physically able to do that - he would have bent way over the iron railing and still would have had to let her go at one point.

Plus, he did say he cut her down.

Wish we had more info. Where were all the major players when Adam found her? Was the ex-wife/mother at the hospital? Was the father at the hospital? Did any of the staff of the house stay at the house or did they all live elsewhere - sometimes with mansions this big there is a caretaker or maid that will live in one of the guest houses and be on call 24/7.

The report of a "party" or "loud music" is unsettling too. With a small child in the hospital on life support WHO in their right mind would be playing loud music or, heaven forbid, be hosting a party?

And the bit about the "Hot Diggity Dogs" guy and boarding the dog?

This is defnintely very strange all the way around.
Click to expand...

I want to hear all the alibis. The loud music could have been used to cover up any news made while RN was being attacked. Just sayin. I have heard over and over there was no party that night. Excellent point about the onsite maid but I'm sure we'd have heard of an interview with such a person. Who knows that Rebecca didn't send her on her way, she was boarding the dog.
 
Anyone have a clear picture of the crime scene? One that shows both where she is on the ground AND the balcony above? I just went back and looked through them all. The only one I found with both in it was blurry.

I want to blow up a pic of the balcony to see if there is any "bending" of the wrought iron work on the balcony. If she was hanging by that iron work - it is possible that it might have bent under the weight. But then again it might not have. I've grown up with wrought iron work all around me - on porches, blaconies, ornamental, etc. While it is very strong - it can (and usually does) weaken through the years. This mansion is over 100 years old and that iron work looks like it "came with the house".

I'm just curious as to the "condition" of that wrought iron on the balcony.
 
I go back and forth everyday on suicide vs murder. Today I am leaning towards murder. No sign of noose or anything hanging from the balcony. There is a long length of orange electrical cord on the ground attached to the body, but IIRC it does not trail from the neck area. Then you have the feet tied spaced apart as if she had been tied to a chair. Then add the rigor looks like she was in a sitting position for hours after she died. IIRC, rigor starts in the neck and moves down. And finally, I am just not seeing her balancing on a table binding her feet and hands (behind her back) while a noose is around her neck.
 
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