2010.09.15 - Levi Page Show - Pat Brown weighs in

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Not on Criminal Minds LOLOLOL Actually I have learned allot from that show and think it is very well written. I agree with your comment a certain type of criminal is pretty predictable. On that show they constantly troubleshoot their profile to refine it. I've always thought the writer must use the FBI as a resource for the script leading me to believe this is how it is done in the real world.

Just sayin', and yes there could be those profilers who get tunnel vision. That means they are not following the book in their job. :banghead:

I'm going to disagree with your view of Criminal Minds just a little - yes they often show "exceptions" in the behavior of the criminals to make it interesting because they are, after all, writing a fictional mystery show and they don't want to give anything away to the audience. :angel:

But in reality, from what I've seen here on Websleuths since 2003, many of these criminals are similar in several important ways, and that's why Profilers are helpful to the police and the FBI.

I think it comes through on Criminal Minds, too - the variations are usually just quirks of character and don't change the basic sociopathic/narcissist package.

I don't believe that people are "cookie-cutter" either, which is how they get away with things. But the main reason they get away with it is that the people in their lives try to see good in them and forgive them for lots of things that in other situations people wouldn't. Just like with Ted Bundy, people see what they want to see, and the perpetrator knows exactly how to use that human trait to his/her advantage.

JMOO
 
Respectfully snipped by me:



Thank you, Scandi. I had the opportunity to meet Pat Brown some years ago (pre-HLN) and she was as down-to-earth and "on the level" as you get.....not unlike the vast majority of LE/bureau personnel I know.
I got the distinct impression at the time, "Wow....this is a woman in the trenches." Anecdotal information, I know, but Pat was trying to grab a quick coffee break while balancing a stack of thick files, had circles under her eyes from sleep deprivation, wrinkled as all get out, but still sharp as a whip and completely focused on catching a perp. She even apologized to us for not having time to chat..........said she was trying to catch her "second wind" after she had passed the 32 hr. mark. IMO, she's done the work and she's been in the trenches. I respect her opinion.

JMO :)
You're welcome. You must lead an interesting life.

Over the years here at WS I have met posters who work in related fields of crime as we study. I'll never forget the gal who worked for CNN and was their media laison with families of high profile cases as they were developing. She would teach them how to do an interview, make sure they had proper clothing to wear for that, make sure their living conditions were comfortable and eating good food etc. as they were traumatized. What a dynamo she was and what an interesting life she led.

Then there was the gal who worked in a lime mine . . . . . . . :angel: Anyhoo it's nice to meet you.
 
I'm going to disagree with your view of Criminal Minds just a little - yes they often show "exceptions" in the behavior of the criminals to make it interesting because they are, after all, writing a fictional mystery show and they don't want to give anything away to the audience. :angel:

But in reality, from what I've seen here on Websleuths since 2003, many of these criminals are similar in several important ways, and that's why Profilers are helpful to the police and the FBI.

I think it comes through on Criminal Minds, too - the variations are usually just quirks of character and don't change the basic sociopathic/narcissist package.

I don't believe that people are "cookie-cutter" either, which is how they get away with things. But the main reason they get away with it is that the people in their lives try to see good in them and forgive them for lots of things that in other situations people wouldn't. Just like with Ted Bundy, people see what they want to see, and the perpetrator knows exactly how to use that human trait to his/her advantage.

JMOO

I really agree with you ThoughtFox. I think CM is a very well written show when you line it up with all the crime and CSI shows so I always throw it out there for that reason. That was an interesting comment you made about the other people in a criminal's life. It reminded me of how enablers react with alcoholics and how the alcoholic knows just how to use them to his/her advantage. xox
 
What was it she said about twelve year old Kayleah? Something to the effect of she was too chubby to have been abducted or sexually assaulted. First of all, she wasn't too fat to have been abducted (what an utterly ridiculous assumption) --- she wasn't fat, period. And that was one of the most heartless, insensitive comments I've ever heard in a missing child case.

Ah Mrs. Mom, don't worry 'bout your little one. She's far too [fill in the blank] for anyone to want to do bad things to her.

I have no use for Ms. Brown.


" Too chubby to have been abducted or sexually assaulted " ? Seriously ? Good God.....


All JMO
 
" Too chubby to have been abducted or sexually assaulted " ? Seriously ? Good God.....


All JMO

We were following Kayleah's case here on WS and when that comment was made we were all enraged. That comment has to be one of PB more serious blunders - let's hope she learned from it. hoo
 
We were following Kayleah's case here on WS and when that comment was made we were all enraged. That comment has to be one of PB more serious blunders - let's hope she learned from it. hoo

I agree, however I don't know what you mean about one of PB more serious blunders, but there could be others? One of the problems of these guest is they have 30 sec. of\r less to make a point and many times they can't elaborate on their point or they are interrupted. I watch HLN or listen to Levi, for the export guests, and I get frustrated when they are cut off in mid-sentenced that they can't finish to clarify their point. Actually Levi is pretty good perhaps because of the length of the topic time. It is unfair to everyone when the guest "expert" is cut off.
 
snip:
Pat says TH fits the profile of someone who could commit this crime against Kyron. She is narcisstic, she's moving on with her life as if he didn't matter, Kyron wasn't important to her. When a child goes missing and you know they are dead, it is annoying people keep looking and want everyone else to please move on. That's how they think.

This is why I cannot help but think that TH may very well be the one responsible for Kyron's disappearance.
 
"Pat says TH fits the profile of someone who could commit this crime against Kyron. She is narcisstic, she's moving on with her life as if he didn't matter, Kyron wasn't important to her."

I listened to the podcast, but didn't hear any supportive reasons for PB to say that TH has moved on with her life as if Kyron didn't matter. I personally don't see TH moving on--she's in limbo right now. If, however, PB's example is the sexting (and I don't know--it's the only example that I could think of), I would disagree that it proves that TH has "moved on" with her life. Even MC stated that some of the texts from Terri were concerns over Kyron's well-being (and baby K's well-being). Of course, those texts were not focused on at all by the media. moo
 
"Pat says TH fits the profile of someone who could commit this crime against Kyron. She is narcisstic, she's moving on with her life as if he didn't matter, Kyron wasn't important to her."

I listened to the podcast, but didn't hear any supportive reasons for PB to say that TH has moved on with her life as if Kyron didn't matter. I personally don't see TH moving on--she's in limbo right now. If, however, PB's example is the sexting (and I don't know--it's the only example that I could think of), I would disagree that it proves that TH has "moved on" with her life. Even MC stated that some of the texts from Terri were concerns over Kyron's well-being (and baby K's well-being). Of course, those texts were not focused on at all by the media. moo

I don't know that TH has been diagnosed as narcissistic has she? But if she has, and I asked this question, unfortunately on a thread that was totally removed, waaaay back when we were asking professionals questions about behavior, and it was one of the last questions before it was trashed, so if anyone knows this answer I'd love to hear it: Would not a narcissist have an extremely hard time being as quiet as she has?
 
I have tremendous respect for expert criminal profilers who take the time to follow a case, study the details of it, and make a deduction based on thorough, accurate information.

My issue with some of the things Ms. Brown states is that it oftentimes seems that she has just glanced @ a cheat sheet (without fact-checking) prior to whatever program she's appearing for, and bases her opinion on what I consider to be a "drive-by" profile.

It calls to mind a *tourist* who merely drives through the Redwoods, compared with those who park, get out of the car, and hike the steep trails beneath the canopy.

She may be more familiar with other cases, but I have to say - the times I've listened to her commentary on this case, IMO she has often seemed to be not as completely & accurately informed as she could have been.

ETA: Want to add that I enjoy listening to Levi's show. I just enjoy it more when others are on besides the venerable Ms. Brown.
 
"Pat says TH fits the profile of someone who could commit this crime against Kyron. She is narcisstic, she's moving on with her life as if he didn't matter, Kyron wasn't important to her."

I listened to the podcast, but didn't hear any supportive reasons for PB to say that TH has moved on with her life as if Kyron didn't matter. I personally don't see TH moving on--she's in limbo right now. If, however, PB's example is the sexting (and I don't know--it's the only example that I could think of), I would disagree that it proves that TH has "moved on" with her life. Even MC stated that some of the texts from Terri were concerns over Kyron's well-being (and baby K's well-being). Of course, those texts were not focused on at all by the media. moo

I understand what you are saying. I did not listen to the podcast so I cannot comment as to that and I agree that there needs to be something to back up her statement.

My own opinion is off topic to this thread :) so I'll withdraw from this discussion along these lines until I see a thread where I can add my own :twocents:
 
I hate to say this, but I think Pat Brown is good when she thinks the way I think about a case. If she thinks opposite of me, then not so much. I know that's probably not fair but I'm being honest. JMO
 
I would love to hear what Dr. Ron Turco has to say about this case.
 
"Pat says TH fits the profile of someone who could commit this crime against Kyron. She is narcisstic, she's moving on with her life as if he didn't matter, Kyron wasn't important to her."

I listened to the podcast, but didn't hear any supportive reasons for PB to say that TH has moved on with her life as if Kyron didn't matter. I personally don't see TH moving on--she's in limbo right now. If, however, PB's example is the sexting (and I don't know--it's the only example that I could think of), I would disagree that it proves that TH has "moved on" with her life. Even MC stated that some of the texts from Terri were concerns over Kyron's well-being (and baby K's well-being). Of course, those texts were not focused on at all by the media. moo

I think the media would LOVE to get its hands on such texts.
 
I think the media would LOVE to get its hands on such texts.

Right! Well, they do know that they exist--they've simply ignored them and focused on the "sexting"...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

"While respondent at times, references the fact that she misses both children Kiara and Kyron, the significant majority of the material deals with social and personal matters between Mr. Cook and respondent and belies that assertion," Rackner wrote.
 
Let's get back on topic regarding Levi's show on September 15th. If we ask questions about the show or ask Levi about future shows, he might be able to get some of our questions answered for us.

Also, he is good about suggesting guests you'd like to hear on his show, so fire away!
 
Hi Levi!

I would love a future show to have Terri Horman, her attorney or someone who knows her personally. I know it probably won't happen but it sure would be interesting.
 
I'd like to see if you can get the person posting as DeDe's cousin on the show. The thread about this is here ------>[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110074"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I would love to hear Dr. Ron Turco's comments on the Kyron Horman investigation.
 
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