AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

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time said:
Has everyone heard all this before?

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/149285
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I think someone posted that earlier this evening, but with so much activity on the thread, I think it's good to repost it in case someone missed it before.

Btw, earlier I searched the Phoenix/East Valley area Craigslist to find something that resembled "Johnson had placed an ad on craigslist seeking a nanny to take the baby", but found nothing. If anyone else wants to see what they can find, here's the link:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/
 
Morning folks!!!!! The baby is having a disco party in my belly so I'm up early.

Can someone help me understand the whole private adoption angle? Why in the world are they jumping thru hoops to circumvent the law in order to get these kids? It seems to me there are plenty of ladies out there who have deadbeat baby daddies that for a little cash would be happy to sign over parental rights. A lot of the deadbeats don't even want to admit they even got the chick pregnant in the first place!

So I guess I'm needing to know how and where they find these ladies? I know they use the Internet, but is there a type that they look for or a specific race? If lm didn't want to give Gabriel away then why couldn't the smiths find another kid? It just doesn't seem that hard. Why go thru all this mess?

There are plenty of kids out there dying to find a loving home. I know the smiths probaby can't adopt legally, but for some cash I would think there would be a lot of ladies wanting an out.
 
BeanE said:
Will this theory fit the facts we know of? I've gone through to confirm facts/dates, but not sure if other info will conflict.

Dec 8: Logan & Eliz fight and Eliz tells Logan to leave. He does.

Dec 9: Eliz calls Logan at work and tells him she wants him to relinquish his paternal rights so she can give Gabriel up for adoption. He refuses. Eliz takes Gabriel to the Smiths, then calls LE & says Logan has taken Gabriel & she doesn't know where Gabriel is. Gabriel found 6 hours later at the Smiths. The craigslist ad is a lie Eliz told about how she met the Smiths. A Tempe detective at the Smiths when Gabriel is found sees the papers the Smiths have drawn up about temporary guardianship. Gabriel spends 8 days with the Smiths.

Dec 17: Court orders that Logan is Gabriel's father. Eliz realizes that she can't give Gabriel up for adoption to the Smiths. Eliz's rage increases.

Dec 18: Eliz picks up Gabriel from the Smiths for a weekend visit with Logan. She doesn't want to do this, but feel court/DCFS/whatever pressure to do it. Eliz's rage increases further - she's enjoyed her 8 days without the baby she doesn't want. She decides not to let Logan have his visit with Gabriel, and takes off with him.

Dec 22: Eliz has been driving aimlessly over the last few days. Ends up in San Antonio. She's frustrated with having to care for Gabriel and angry with Logan for not cooperating in letting her get rid of him.

Dec 23 - Dec 26: Eliz, off her meds, frustrated with having to care for Gabriel who she doesn't want and has had a taste of life without him grows ever more enraged and out of control.

Dec 26: Takes Gabriel to the park and it is at that point that she goes over the edge. She takes Gabriel's life.

Dec 27: Morning. Eliz has to get out of town. Leaves everything belonging to Gabriel. Ditches her car. Takes off on the bus to Miami Beach.

TIA
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I'm thinking she knew that when she didn't show for court 12/28 that her custodial rights would be relinquished and Logan would have legal custody. If she were smart, she would have let that happen from the get go, but since she blew it and she knew the Smith's would not be getting the baby either, she figured if Gabriel disappeared, she would not be charged with anything. I too, do not think Gabriel is alive. In hindsight, Logan should have done something to prevent her from leaving their home State to begin with.
 
Mornin'...I saw where 5thEssence was peeking in...Janet Morris DOB is March 14, 1973
I heart our Astros!
 
Forensic Astrology - GABRIEL JOHNSON last seen San Antonio, TX
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93727"]Forensic Astrology - GABRIEL JOHNSON last seen San Antonio, TX - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
burbqueen said:
Morning folks!!!!! The baby is having a disco party in my belly so I'm up early.

Can someone help me understand the whole private adoption angle? Why in the world are they jumping thru hoops to circumvent the law in order to get these kids? It seems to me there are plenty of ladies out there who have deadbeat baby daddies that for a little cash would be happy to sign over parental rights. A lot of the deadbeats don't even want to admit they even got the chick pregnant in the first place!

So I guess I'm needing to know how and where they find these ladies? I know they use the Internet, but is there a type that they look for or a specific race? If lm didn't want to give Gabriel away then why couldn't the smiths find another kid? It just doesn't seem that hard. Why go thru all this mess?

There are plenty of kids out there dying to find a loving home. I know the smiths probaby can't adopt legally, but for some cash I would think there would be a lot of ladies wanting an out.
Click to expand...

Guess again. <sorry, not meaning to be snarky> Caucasian infants available for adoption are few and far between.
 
Salem said:
~snip~ Tammi Smith also explained a post on her Facebook page, where she asked people to pray for Elizabeth because the mother had found 'undercover' help in Texas to change her's and Gabriel's identities. Smith took Elizabeth's comments to mean that she had found a women's shelter that provided "extra" and illegal services. ~end snip~

http://www.kpho.com/news/22190418/detail.html

TPS's statements here don't match anything she said on NG tonight. I thought this message was all about letting Logan know the Smiths were no longer interested in adopting Gabriel????

Another thought: Do we know if LE have confiscated EJ's computer and gone through it?

Has anyone looked for Women's Shelters in San Antonio or Victoria?

Salem
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I do not understand the extra and illegal statement and I have fired off a letter asking if that is their quote or hers. In most states that assistance to disappear is offered through the dam prosecutors office and is not, let me repeat, is not illegal...
IMO, Tammi thinks she is speaking martyr...the people that matter know what she's trying to say. She makes me sick.
 
Oh ok, so they are after only white babies??? It just seems that if you really want to help children then it shouldn't matter what race the kid is. Also, I know plenty of young white girls that are stuck and would consider giving up thir baby. I actually have a friend thinking of doing this now.

If one mother has issues then just give up and move on. It just seems a bit obsessive and weird. Like child collecting or design a baby.
 
We have heard that Janet Morris house was searched in Nashville. Nothing about the agency being searched. I don't like that. Maybe they had enough for a warrant for the home, but not for the office and the records and such.
That makes me nervous, since if there was anything, it has surely disappeared by now.
 
On Tammi's 'underground help' posting and statements, I think the changes we're seeing in her explanations are because she has, in the past 24 hours or so, begun to realize that LE, some reporters/interviewers, and many members of the public, are not going to accept her exaggerations, speculations, wishful thinking, covering for herself, etc, as fact. I think she is learning that when questions are asked, people are looking for *facts*, and are simply not interested in her fabrications and exaggerations, that her agenda is not the agenda of others, and certainly not the agenda of Gabriel.

With that in mind, she said (putting it together from multiple articles, videos, and NG) that Eliz said the word 'underground' once, and that she (Tammi) interpreted that to mean a women's shelter/domestic violence shelter. So the fact nugget we can get from this is that Eliz said 'underground' once.

Tammi said Eliz was talking about 'running', and something about 'identities'. The fact nugget I *think* we can get from this, or at least the maximum I'm willing to rely on, is that Eliz said something about going on the run, possibly getting new identities for herself *or* herself and Gabriel, and that these identities might come from an 'underground' or illegal source.

Since we see that Tammi is prone to spewing self-opinion and speculation as fact, I think it may be true that Eliz said something about going on the run, and that Eliz threw out something like 'maybe I could get a new identity'. (She did buy the bus ticket in a fake name (Elizabeth Jones), and she was on the run).

I'm tossing everything else Tammi said about this, and I'm going to hope as reality dawns on her further over the next day or two, that she will begin thinking about what facts she actually knows, and saying only those. (Actually I hope she'll just stfu because she's damaging the determination of wth happened to Gabriel - the *only* thing we want to know!!!)

I think this LE dept is smart, very smart. And I think they saw Tammi for what she is, and came up with the strategy of naming the Smiths as POIs in order to force them to quit playing self-centered games and cut to the facts that may actually help find Gabriel (the #1 thing they want right now!!!).

I will be praying today that Tammi and Jack will wake this morning and get slapped on the forehead with a "It's about Gabriel" stick, and go back to LE, and give the facts with *no* frills. (and that they'll then stfu.)

:cow:
 
Something I want to point out. In the very first phone interview that Tammi did with that news station, she stated that Eliz did not know about the custody hearing on Dec 28, that that's why Eliz didn't show for it, and I believe she said that if Eliz had known she'd definitely have been there.

Now (as of yesterday) Tammi is saying that not only did Eliz know, but that she (Tammi) knew, and that she (Tammi) had two people call Eliz and tell her, along with telling her herself, that she (Eliz) should go to the custody hearing.

The truth and Ms. Tammi are strangers... but, like I said, it appears that she is starting to come clean. Likely at the urging of LE with some words about obstructing investigation/justice charges.
 
BeanE said:
On Tammi's 'underground help' posting and statements, I think the changes we're seeing in her explanations are because she has, in the past 24 hours or so, begun to realize that LE, some reporters/interviewers, and many members of the public, are not going to accept her exaggerations, speculations, wishful thinking, covering for herself, etc, as fact. I think she is learning that when questions are asked, people are looking for *facts*, and are simply not interested in her fabrications and exaggerations, that her agenda is not the agenda of others, and certainly not the agenda of Gabriel.

(respectfully snipped)

Ms. Tammi must think the general public, LE, reporters, etc. are idiots. Since when is "running" to a women's shelter considered "underground". Any time I think of a women's shelter, I think "safe-haven". She is back-stepping and realizing that her feet are securely planted in p-o-o-p! JMO...

I have had some experience with shelters on the professional side and I have never known any of them to provide "illegal" services.
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I'm really afraid that, although the Smiths may believe this is a story about adoptions, it's going to turn out to be a story about a "spiteful b#tch."
 
I do a lot of work with our underground railroad system, but it is not illegal. It is condoned by the prosecutor's office. Yes, we help woman take children away from their fathers, we help provide new identities and help with cash, food, shelter, clothes, transport, counseling. It is legal, and yet, by its very nature, it is underground. These are men with past documented history of abuse, however. Not the "he came home from the bar once and hit me" abuse. Real, she will die if her abuser finds her abuse.
For TPS to insinuate that this "group" was a part of that network is making me sick. Does it exist, yes. Do people like EJ have the required proofs and documents to get into that network, no. In a nutshell, if there was a network, it was a brokering network, not a safe haven/escape network.
 
BeanE said:
Agree. I'm seriously starting to think that Eliz really was reading up on the Caylee Anthony case.
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The Smiths are putting themselves out there so much and feeding the media their shifting stories, that we all start forgetting that EJ was probably not focused at all on finding a good home for Gabriel but was most likely focused on controlling and punishing Logan. Yes, she used the Smiths (and Gabriel) to manipulate Logan and probably took their money to finance her kidnapping, but when Logan didn't sign the papers when the Smiths relayed the threat to him, I think EJ decided to punish him in the worst way she could think of.

I hope I'm wrong, though, and this is the rare case that I have some hope for a good outcome. But I just don't see EJ going to all this trouble to make sure Gabriel is safe, since she showed so little maternal instincts towards him before.
 
LFlorida said:
Guess again. <sorry, not meaning to be snarky> Caucasian infants available for adoption are few and far between.
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I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.
 
At this point, EJ is in it up to her ears. She doesn't care one whit about Gabe, only about making sure she doesn't go to jail for longer. She knows and knew from the start that whatever she did was illegal. Chances are she won't talk. Whatever is found will by found through the Smith's slip ups, so no, they don't need to shut up or go away. They are the only shot LE has right now, other than what they may find by dumb luck. EJ will not talk, she knows that even her texted confession is useless. Unless the Smith's keep talking, this will fast become a cold case and 15 years down the road, we will still be wondering what happened to baby Gabe.
Complete MOO.
 
CateH said:
I guess "few and far between" is relative. We have adopted two Caucasian infants, both at birth, in the last 5 years. For both adoptions we were only on the waiting list for 1 month before we were chosen to parent. (I realize that our waits were shorter than the average, though.) I know a lot of people that have successfully adopted (Caucasian infants) domestically in the last 5 years. I put off adopting for so long because I was operating under the misconception that it was almost impossible to adopt any infant in the US, much less a Caucasian infant. We were open to any ethnicity, but it just so happened that we were chosen to parent CC infants both times.
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I agree with you. It's totally relative. NY and PA have more Caucasian children than any other race available. I think it depends on where you are.
 
I have some free time today, I have some transcription that I need to do, so if there are any other smith interviews that anyone wants transcribed, let me know. Just give me the link and I'll transcribe.
The older kids are going sledding, I get to stay home with the baby, hooray.
 
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