Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #2

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jjenny said:
Well that saving of a dead body would just destroy a potential crime scene.
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True but it still does not change me from being who I am though Jenny.

Lots of family members have rushed to their deceased family members who either died by suicide or homicides and the evidence was not destroyed at all.

Steve Greone's son rushed to the aid of his slaughtered family when he walked in and found his mom, brother and his mom's boyfriend lined up in the living room. Its just human nature to try and help someone in destress.

So I would just have to hope I didn't destroy the evidence. LE doesn't seem upset that Adam cut Rebecca down either. I am sure they understood the situation. The first instinct is to save someone imo.

IMO
 
mrsu said:
Not to be argumentative, but I don't believe the police said she was not hogtied. At the press conference, he said, she didn't APPEAR to be. IMO, that doesn't mean that she wasn't hogtied at some point.

What is your explanation as to why her legs are bent in the position they are?
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The police officer has spoken to the media several times. When I have heard him he said she wasnt hogtied.

IMO
 
justbetweenus said:
Very interesting. Thanks for doing this Quester. Much appreciated.

Btw which one would you thank if you could.:)
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Thanks!

I added my "thanks" to the undecided vote count as that was my opinion when I posted the poll last evening.

I need more info/facts. But, this case does look very, very suspicious!
 
mrsu said:
Not to be argumentative, but I don't believe the police said she was not hogtied. At the press conference, he said, she didn't APPEAR to be. IMO, that doesn't mean that she wasn't hogtied at some point.

What is your explanation as to why her legs are bent in the position they are?
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I know you weren't asking ME, but...;)

RE: Hogtied. I think she was. As you said, at some point. And I will continue to think that until I see something that explains the position of her knees.

Lie on your side and assume a position, as close as possible, as we see Rebecca. Without ANY effort, because a dead person has none, can you keep your knees apart? I can't. They must be 'frozen' that way...and the only thing I know that causes that is rigor.

ALL IN MY OPINION
 
oceanblueeyes said:
She talked to her sister around midnight right and then the loud music was heard about 1 am? So lets say it happened sometime after then and before 6:45 am.... I don't think full rigor sets in .......in that time frame does it? 7 hours?

I have a feeling if the medics worked on her then they did not see any signs of rigor so I think they turned her upper body and face as much as they could with her arms and hands behind her back stopping them from rolling her over on her back and that is why she is in the crooked position she was in.

IMO
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bbm

CPR would not be performed on any patient in this position (hands tied behind back).

ETA: I'm required to be (and am) certified in first aid/CPR.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
The police officer has spoken to the media several times. When I have heard him he said she wasnt hogtied.

IMO
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I assume the police officer was referring to how the deceased was found. Obviously, he/she doesn't know everything because we now have 15 officers on the case. We do not know what they've found. I'd say she was not FOUND hogtied, I'd feel secure in the accuracy of that statement....but until the autopsy, who can really say with certainty if she ever was that night?
 
Paladine said:
I know you weren't asking ME, but...;)

RE: Hogtied. I think she was. As you said, at some point. And I will continue to think that until I see something that explains the position of her knees.

Lie on your side and assume a position, as close as possible, as we see Rebecca. Without ANY effort, because a dead person has none, can you keep your knees apart? I can't. They must be 'frozen' that way...and the only thing I know that causes that is rigor.

ALL IN MY OPINION
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I agree with you Paladine.
 
Paladine said:
I know you weren't asking ME, but...;)

RE: Hogtied. I think she was. As you said, at some point. And I will continue to think that until I see something that explains the position of her knees.

Lie on your side and assume a position, as close as possible, as we see Rebecca. Without ANY effort, because a dead person has none, can you keep your knees apart? I can't. They must be 'frozen' that way...and the only thing I know that causes that is rigor.

ALL IN MY OPINION
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No rigor set in. Position left in by Adam when he laid her on the grass. If he picked her up in his arms to move her, her legs would naturally bend at the knees.

Rolled partially onto her back when LE arrived to attempt or administer aid until EMTs arrived and called her deceased.


ETA and get this out of the way: Why space between her legs at thighs and knees. Lie on your side with legs slightly bent and ankles together. No need to even mess with tying your hands behind your back. Now roll only your upper body towards your back, but consciously keep your ankles together. Note some separation in your legs as a result. If like me, and the answer to "a bowl of fresh fruit or a bowl of ice cream" gets answered "ice cream" more often than not, maybe not much space at the thighs.

But that girl was thin. Very little body fat. In her case, going to be more separation than I'll ever get if I twist myself like that while keeping ankles together.

Give it a try, then enjoy a nice bowl of cherries. Or the other stuff.
 
kljohnson0458 said:
Hog tied means nothing to me beause she didn't commit suicide. Who needs proof by saying she was or wasn't hog tied. Why does it matter. I know in my heart this woman did NOT take her own life. So the hog tied theory just needs tossed. The LE even said she was NOT hog tied. JMO
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I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that you believe she wasn't hog tied because she couldn't hogtie herself?
 
oceanblueeyes said:
She talked to her sister around midnight right and then the loud music was heard about 1 am? So lets say it happened sometime after then and before 6:45 am.... I don't think full rigor sets in .......in that time frame does it? 7 hours?

I have a feeling if the medics worked on her then they did not see any signs of rigor so I think they turned her upper body and face as much as they could with her arms and hands behind her back stopping them from rolling her over on her back and that is why she is in the crooked position she was in.

IMO
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After 12 hours full rigor. Rigor starts after 30 mins but takes a little while for body to completely stiffen. This all depends on temp..numbers I listed were for 70 degrees. Also Capt Curran said that police arrived first and thought she was deceased but attempted life saving measures..Fire arrived and pronounced her dead
 
anyoldtime48 said:
...But if rigor HAD fully set in, how does she wind up with the top half of her body twisted a good 45 degrees away from her lower body? If she had been hogtied, not likely. If she was hung, or hung herself, highly unlikely.
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Some of us were speculating yesterday about the possibility that she was left in that twisted position after she was tied up, long enough for rigor to set in after death.

Someone might have left her tied up in a small space such as a closet or slumped in a chair, maybe she was unconcious or already dead. Sometime later, she could have been "hung" to make it look like suicide and possibly to account for marks already left by the bindings. Unfortunately her body was already stiff, so her arms and legs stayed bent in that position.:twocents:
 
justbetweenus said:
Warning I have blond roots lol

I have to admit not knowing anything about hogtying or even knew the term came from hogs being tied the way you mentioned lol. but some of the images I have seen since following this case they look like the feet and hands aren't tied together. Some look like the hands are tied, then with another rope/cord the feet are tied, brought up (possibly looped through the ties on the hands then tied around the neck. I have that pictured then another rope used to hang to the balcony.

Thanks for your post.
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YW!

I don't think the binding on her hands and feet had anything to do with the electrical cord. That is why the police is not wanting to comment on what was used. It was something altogether different imo. I imagine it could have been maybe more scarves..cloth belt..sashes etc. It will be interesting to know if the bindings were things that belonged to Rebecca.

But I do think LE thinks the rope that she was hung with isn't what was used to bind her hands and feet. I see these as three different steps she or they took. I think the rope and scarf were already in place before the feet were bound first and then her wrists last.

IMO
 
Binding on the feet looks to be the same orange color as the one on her neck.
 
anyoldtime48 said:
No rigor set in. Position left in by Adam when he laid her on the grass. If he picked her up in his arms to move her, her legs would naturally bend at the knees.

Rolled partially onto her back when LE arrived to attempt or administer aid until EMTs arrived and called her deceased.


ETA and get this out of the way: Why space between her legs at thighs and knees. Lie on your side with legs slightly bent and ankles together. No need to even mess with tying your hands behind your back. Now roll only your upper body towards your back, but consciously keep your ankles together. Note some separation in your legs as a result. If like me, and the answer to "a bowl of fresh fruit or a bowl of ice cream" gets answered "ice cream" more often than not, maybe not much space at the thighs.

But that girl was thin. Very little body fat. In her case, going to be more separation than I'll ever get if I twist myself like that while keeping ankles together.

Give it a try, then enjoy a nice bowl of cherries. Or the other stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to imagine this....so you are assuming he laid her face down? How do the legs then stay up and not fall down straight, assuming there is no rigor? IMO if a body is lifeless limbs will fall into the most natural position, which would be extended. I can't picture how if he laid her face down, her legs would be bent?

Another thing I don't understand...why would he lay her facedown?? You would think if he was concerned/sympathetic he would not lay her flat on her face. I think he didn't lay her on her back because her legs were awkward (already bent) and she wouldn't lay nicely.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Ahh but we can never trust what a suicidal person says they are going to do. My daughter's friend told my daughter they were going to have lunch together but imo she had no intentions of ever meeting her. She had already made plans to kill herself and did.

So what if Rebecca was really being told that it was best she didn't come to the hospital? She wouldn't want to tell her family that imo.

I am sure they were asking her had she seen him yet so she said she was going to 'tomorrow' because she knew 'tomorrow' was never going to happen.

IMO
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...And there has been NO statement what-so-ever by JS or from his PR people expressing sadness or condolences over the death of RN, has there??? If not, that sorta spells out that he nor his team want to 'touch this'... She probably got the same message or worse, possibly that she WAS INDEED considered to 'blame' for negligence in the death of MS.
 
mrsu said:
I'm trying to imagine this....so you are assuming he laid her face down? How do the legs then stay up and not fall down straight, assuming there is no rigor? IMO if a body is lifeless limps will fall into the most natural position, which would be extended. I can't picture how if he laid her face down, her legs would be bent?

Another thing I don't understand...why would he lay her facedown?? You would think if he was concerned/sympathetic he would not lay her flat on her face. I think he didn't lay her on her back because he legs were awkward (already bent) and she wouldn't lay nicely.
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On the photos she is not face down. If I were trying to save someone from suffocation, I certainly wouldn't lay them face down.
 
pferrin said:
After 12 hours full rigor. Rigor starts after 30 mins but takes a little while for body to completely stiffen. This all depends on temp..numbers I listed were for 70 degrees. Also Capt Curran said that police arrived first and thought she was deceased but attempted life saving measures..Fire arrived and pronounced her dead
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So if loud music was heard around 1am that would be but about 5 3/4 hours until the time she was found so she would not be in full rigor even if she died at 1:00 am...which we don't have any idea when she died. I am sure the ME does though. Hopefully they found some stomach contents........that is the best way to judge TOD.

IMO
 
The other thing to consider regarding what the sister says...she says she talked to her at "midnight". I assume that would be midnight central time which would be 10pm Rebecca's time. (Seems unlikely it would be 2am sister's time and midnight R's time). So that gives almost 9 hours until she was found.
 
angelwngs said:
...And there has been NO statement what-so-ever by JS or from his PR people expressing sadness or condolences over the death of RN, has there??? If not, that sorta spells out that he nor his team want to 'touch this'... She probably got the same message or worse, possibly that she WAS INDEED considered to 'blame' for negligence in the death of MS.
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Yes, I did hear that but I cant remember where I read it now. They said Jonah is devastated over the loss of his son and his girlfriend. I know I have heard it said on HLN but have forgotten who said it now.

I dont think Jonah had anything to do with this. I am not sure about Dina though.

imo
 
Quester said:
:floorlaugh:

ice cream please!
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I'm still battling between the fresh Washington cherries or the Mint Chocolate Chip, but given most of the U.S. is suffering under a massive heat wave :hot:, even though oddly not here today, I may cave on their behalf and unselfishly head for the ice cream scoop.
 
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