17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dr.Fessel said:
Isn't that strange, you can shoot a person you see committing arson.

No couch burning in Florida.
Click to expand...

I think someone would have to sit on that couch being burned for it to become a forcible felony. If you go around and see someone trying to burn a couch with a person sitting on that couch you can use deadly force to prevent couch burning.
 
JeannaT said:
I think the difference here is "remorse". Remorse means you did something wrong, and you feel guilt.

I'd certainly feel terrible if I were in GZ's position, but not remorseful. If he's telling the truth, he did nothing whatsoever wrong, it was just a horrible misunderstanding and who knows where it would have ended if he didn't have a gun.
Click to expand...

So you think he did absolutely nothing wrong? Tm was not committing a crime, carrying a gun or anything illegal. He wrongly sized up an individual which resulted in gz wrongly following a person for no reason. He shouldnt feel remorse at all for shooting an unarmed kid? I know i would, no matter what ensued, because, I, afterall am the one who wrongly accused and followed this child to begin with. But like I said, Thats just me.
 
jjenny said:
Zimmerman can claim SYG if he reasonably believed it was necessary to use deadly force to prevent death or great bodily harm. He could also claim SYG if he tried to use deadly force to prevent an individual from committing a forcible felony. Well I really doubt Zimmerman is going to claim he tried to prevent forcible felony. I am not sure why she brought up forcible felony at all. Because it's rather obvious Zimmerman is not going to claim that he was trying to prevent forcible felony but rather that he was trying to prevent death/great bodily harm.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to continue to debate the issue with you back and forth. It's pointless. You clearly have your interpretation of the law and I clearly have mine. The facts of the case will be brought to a court of law where they will be tried and it will be up to the judge to first determine if SYG even applies in this case and then it will be up to a jury as to whether or not they believe Zimmerman's account. Until then, it's quite pointless to keep going around and around and around. I'm certainly not going to spend the next 6 months to year dwelling on it. It is what it is.


~jmo~
 
JBean said:
The prosecution may have the burden of proving it was an unlawful killing aka 2nd degree murder aka not self defense-but if the defendant wants to get self defense in the jury instructions ( his affirmative defense)-he has got the burden of presenting some evidence -any evidence that it WAS self defense. If the defendant does not show any evidence whatsoever that it was in self defense the jury would not even be able to consider it.

IOW, in most cases the defense does not have to present anything. They can let the prosecution prove or not prove their case and it can go straight to the jury.

<respectfully snipped>
Click to expand...

:banghead::banghead: Or, they could just follow the lead of another case and in opening statements, make wild claims which are never substantiated later in trial. :banghead: :banghead: I do hope that THIS jury of 12 will be a little more *educated/use brain cells* in this case than to fall for something such as that happening again. :banghead: :banghead:
 
Steft50 said:
We have that alledged story of GZ's head being pounded into the concrete, yet Trayvon was found, belly down, some distance from any concrete. IF as the story goes, GZ reached down to get his gun and shoot Trayvon while his head his being pounded into the cement, logic would dictate that the cement be where Trayvon was found, wouldn't it?

This is one of those details that does not make sense.
Click to expand...

Do you know if Trayvon died instantly?
 
belle3 said:
So you think he did absolutely nothing wrong? Tm was not committing a crime, carrying a gun or anything illegal. He wrongly sized up an individual which resulted in gz wrongly following a person for no reason. He shouldnt feel remorse at all for shooting an unarmed kid? I know i would, no matter what ensued, because, I, afterall am the one who wrongly accused and followed this child to begin with. But like I said, Thats just me.
Click to expand...

We really don't know what GZ feels since we can't get into his head.
 
Adrienne37 said:
Nancy Grace interview with Angela Corey's regarding "Stand your Ground...

COREY: “Nancy, our laws are very clear that it has to be a forcible felony and that a reasonable person would have to believe that deadly force is necessary as opposed to just physical force, fighting back and that sort of thing. I’ve prosecuted a woman who shot her husband and killed him because he slapped her, and we argued that was not deadly force and she was convicted and sent to state prison.”
Click to expand...

In the interest of understanding Florida's SYG law better, I would be interested in knowing more about this case. I take it Corey did not elaborate on it. I sure would like to know... Was this husband's slap part of a regular pattern of abuse, or was it an isolated incident that didn't scare her but just made her mad?
 
belle3 said:
So you think he did absolutely nothing wrong? Tm was not committing a crime, carrying a gun or anything illegal. He wrongly sized up an individual which resulted in gz wrongly following a person for no reason. He shouldnt feel remorse at all for shooting an unarmed kid? I know i would, no matter what ensued, because, I, afterall am the one who wrongly accused and followed this child to begin with. But like I said, Thats just me.
Click to expand...

He misunderstood what was happening, I don't think he did anything "wrong".

I was intrigued about the time Trayvon got caught in school with the jewelry, the teacher noticed Trayvon was "acting suspiciously" and investigated, and found the jewelry and screwdriver in his possession.

I'm bringing this up because I wonder what the teacher saw? What GZ saw? Both seem to characterize Trayvon's movements the same way.

If the case was that Trayvon was merely running in GZ's direction - as a pure coincidence to get out of the rain for example - and GZ mistakenly shot and killed him, that would be horrific and would make GZ feel remorse.

He was being punched in the head. I really don't know how much remorse I'd feel for shooting some guy who was on top of me pounding my head. I'd feel sad for his family, for sure. My mindset is it's likely one of us isn't going to live through this incident, and it's going to be you.
 
magnolia said:
Do you know if Trayvon died instantly?
Click to expand...

:waitasec: Why is this question being asked? Are you asking if the autopsy report has been released and you missed it and think another of us has seen it. No, it has not.
 
Adrienne37 said:
I guess we will have to see how it all plays out in court. I'm at least very thankful that this very dangerous man is off the streets right now. Lord knows, it could have been that poor 7-year-old or 9-year-old kid that he seen as suspicious and decided to murder them as well.


~jmo~
Click to expand...



if I remember correctly (feel free to correct me if I don't) Mr Zimmerman had no problem turning his hose on children riding by his yard on bikes because a neighbor child was bullied at a different time. I get the sense that he may have considered himself a self appointed hero-wanna be. Anavenger of sorts.

the above is my personal opinion.
 
Based on his website GZ felt that good men had triumphed over evil when TM was killed.

No remorse and no guilt, he is a hero in his own mind.
 
Marshmallow said:
if I remember correctly (feel free to correct me if I don't) Mr Zimmerman had no problem turning his hose on children riding by his yard on bikes because a neighbor child was bullied at a different time. I get the sense that he may have considered himself a self appointed hero-wanna be. Anavenger of sorts.

the above is my personal opinion.
Click to expand...

I think that everyone here would agree with that.

GZ sees himself as a knight in shining armor, a protector of the innocent, a guardian of the community, a brave avenger. A bit self-agrandizing.
 
JeannaT said:
He misunderstood what was happening, I don't think he did anything "wrong".

I was intrigued about the time Trayvon got caught in school with the jewelry, the teacher noticed Trayvon was "acting suspiciously" and investigated, and found the jewelry and screwdriver in his possession.

I'm bringing this up because I wonder what the teacher saw? What GZ saw? Both seem to characterize Trayvon's movements the same way.

If the case was that Trayvon was merely running in GZ's direction - as a pure coincidence to get out of the rain for example - and GZ mistakenly shot and killed him, that would be horrific and would make GZ feel remorse.

He was being punched in the head. I really don't know how much remorse I'd feel for shooting some guy who was on top of me pounding my head. I'd feel sad for his family, for sure. My mindset is it's likely one of us isn't going to live through this incident, and it's going to be you.
Click to expand...

In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area “hiding and being suspicious.” Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with “W.T.F” — an acronym for “what the f---.” The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.
Instead the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald. Word of the incident came as the family’s lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called “irrelevant” and an attempt to demonize a victim.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

Bolded by me
This tells a different story, that no one claimed Trayvon looked suspicious. So based on this, it is not the same as what Zimmerman did.
 
jjenny said:
I think someone would have to sit on that couch being burned for it to become a forcible felony. If you go around and see someone trying to burn a couch with a person sitting on that couch you can use deadly force to prevent couch burning.
Click to expand...

No, under the SYG law in Florida you can shoot someone committing arson period.
 
JeannaT said:
He misunderstood what was happening, I don't think he did anything "wrong".

I was intrigued about the time Trayvon got caught in school with the jewelry, the teacher noticed Trayvon was "acting suspiciously" and investigated, and found the jewelry and screwdriver in his possession.

I'm bringing this up because I wonder what the teacher saw? What GZ saw? Both seem to characterize Trayvon's movements the same way.

If the case was that Trayvon was merely running in GZ's direction - as a pure coincidence to get out of the rain for example - and GZ mistakenly shot and killed him, that would be horrific and would make GZ feel remorse.

He was being punched in the head. I really don't know how much remorse I'd feel for shooting some guy who was on top of me pounding my head. I'd feel sad for his family, for sure. My mindset is it's likely one of us isn't going to live through this incident, and it's going to be you.
Click to expand...



Allegedly punched in the head. it is not fact.
we do not know if he truely was being attacked maliciously, if there was no altercation, or if any actions by Mr Martin were self defense as this stranger stalked then accosted him and Trevor was in a position of fighting for his life, a fight he lost.
 
I truly don't get it.

"hiding and being suspicious" and "looking suspicious" are synonymous to me.
 
Was TM hiding when he was thought suspicious by GZ?
 
JeannaT said:
I think the difference here is "remorse". Remorse means you did something wrong, and you feel guilt.

I'd certainly feel terrible if I were in GZ's position, but not remorseful. If he's telling the truth, he did nothing whatsoever wrong, it was just a horrible misunderstanding and who knows where it would have ended if he didn't have a gun.
Click to expand...


Or perhaps GZ simply figured Trayvon didn't have long to live anyway, because after all, according to "statistics":

JeannaT
user_online.gif

Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,424


jjenny I completely understand what you're saying,
but I think this becomes more confusing all the time.

Neither of these men are passifists. Each is looking for a fight,
from what I can tell from the information available. It was a tragedy that they met each other.

Statistically - it also seems unlikely that Trayvon would have survived to middle age.
Click to expand...


BBM
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 209 more.
Total: 4,013 (members: 210, guests: 3,803)

Online statistics

Members online
210
Guests online
3,803
Total visitors
4,013
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,816
Messages
17,959,518
Members
228,617
Latest member
Eleanor D.
Back
Top