Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

Maybe we need a mythbuster discussion.

Wudge said:

Casey is charged with 'premeditated' murder (1782.04 (1)(a)(1). No intent, no murder one.

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Ah ha...I understand you view on the above charge. I see your point but I do think she did it and I do think they have more evidence to support the charge, Although it has not been made available to the public. We shall see.

carrie said:

Whiteangora, Jbean:

I'm with you guys. I'm very confused as to why this thread is so long and it's being stated that chloroform was definitely found in the syringe/bottle. I don't see that clearly stated anywhere in the docs. :waitasec:

Is it just that one news station that reported it? Did they maybe jump the gun?

I don't get it. Like I said, :waitasec:

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This was asked repeatedly in this thread, but someone posted links to specific pages.

Well, I checked and lots of news stations are reporting it now. Everything from "a bottle full of chloroform" to "traces of chloroform."

I'm still not seeing it clearly in the docs though. Is there someone out there with a chemistry/science background that could help us with trying to understand the
docs on this point?

Imbackon said:

This was asked repeatedly in this thread, but someone posted links to specific pages.

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Yes, they did. But when I looked at those pages it wasn't clear to me that it stated chloroform was in the bottle. There was a chart with some scientific graph or whatever. But, they also used controls with chloroform when testing.

The part of the docs that seems to sum up the results does not say there was chloroform. Be back in a sec with the link. . . BRB

Good am caught up as much as I can... still not seeing specifically what it is that connects the syringe (or bottle eg) to KC? I gather it's the location itself which everyone finds suspicious, and the chloroform components in trunk. However it seems fingerprints are the only real hope prosecution has of tying this to KC. :twocents:

arrot:

if Casey googled chloraphorm, and read the warnings correctly, this was not used to put her to sleep for a while or knock her out..this is murder. Rot is hell Casey.

whiteangora said:

Okay, I have read all 800+ posts on this thread and nobody has convinced me that this new "evidence" is at all connected to Caylee's death. I have yet to see what the proportion of chloroform was in the syringe or the bottle. I keep thinking of how this spot on Suburban was a dump site and even though Casey is a ding-a-ling she's not goofy enough to inject Caylee then repackage a syringe and throw it out near the dump site. It is also my belief that she was not thinking clearly enough at that time to be trying to frame anyone.
So, can anyone convince me otherwise?

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JBean said:

I can't help you because I totally agree.

ETA: if this is all connected i don't think we have seen that info yet. jmho of course.

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ITA with both of you, and tried to present a biased view of this evidence, but got shot down, at the very nature of my questioning:waitasec: I think posters, for example, Wudge, help us to see beyond evidence, that appears to be so incriminating, but unravels to be nothing more than coincidence. I so appreciate the alternative mindset, as it stretches our minds to the reality of the situation

carrie said:

Whiteangora, Jbean:

I'm with you guys. I'm very confused as to why this thread is so long and it's being stated that chloroform was definitely found in the syringe/bottle. I don't see that clearly stated anywhere in the docs. :waitasec:

Is it just that one news station that reported it? Did they maybe jump the gun?

I don't get it. Like I said, :waitasec:

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I've tried to get it, but it seems very far fetched to me. Also, I hope I have always made my position clear that I am no advocate for Casey, I think she's guilty as sin and I await the day she stands up in court to receive her punishment.

lizzysf said:

In the beginning when drowning was my theory (pool shock+urine=Chloroform) was ruled out by the experts to be too high in the trunk for this type of production, I decided that the Chloroform was a fluke and probably related to cleaning products also. But the the Chloroform search and now the Chloroform/syringe at the dumpsite has me retracting that thought. How can Chlororform be a triple coincidence? Even if it was a commonly occuring substance..which Chloroform is not, I would still be a bit suspicious of the links.

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Yep, there is that shiny Goddess of Serendipity again.

I'm beginning to think the only way the defense can spin this is by claiming that LE and the State have been simply showered in Happenschance pixie dust that surfaced all of the 'unrelated' coinky-dinks.

There, I just handed them a new SODDI on a silver platter. Let them run with it. :wink:

MAMABEAR said:

Awrity then-----and away we go. Looks good to me. Of course I knew she killed Caylee on day 31. She is goin down now. Wonder what defense will come up wid to try and git her outta this mess. LMAO Gotta lub it. There aint nuttin JB or AL can do to slide under the fence now. Cant wait for this to be on TV. Got me popcorn ahready. Gotta give em an "A" Plus for tryin. All them smoke screens and lies and motions.

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk6f7OrqCM4"]YouTube- Caylee's cute litte voice[/ame]

reeseeva said:

ITA with both of you, and tried to present a biased view of this evidence, but got shot down, at the very nature of my questioning:waitasec: I think posters, for example, Wudge, help us to see beyond evidence, that appears to be so incriminating, but unravels to be nothing more than coincidence. I so appreciate the alternative mindset, as it stretches our minds to the reality of the situation

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(bbm) Good am friend, actually the views you present--re this and other evidence in this case--is typically very unbiased and so far I have to agree. :heart: JMO

arrot:

Hello WS

I am half way through the thread and it seems even though the news reported on the chloroform we do not know for sure if there really was some in the gatoraide bottle?

I read and understand that because of the lack of evidence of knowing how Caylee died we can't say that chloroform was used on her, or what was used to kill her. It has been said that there is nothing that ties Casey killing Caylee either, so I guess that is the argument right there that confuses my thinking because I feel all of the information(not evidence but information which in my world counts for something) screams that Casey killed Caylee.

I do get the "doubts" when I read these types of arguments. But if I just wanted to be "right" I wouldn't consider opinions different than my own and I would have no doubts. My common sense and all of the information tells me that Casey killed her daughter. And all I can use is information and my (common)sense to discuss this case because I am not on the jury and I am not sitting in the trial right now.

I am not so blinded that I will only see my own opinion. As we saw in a post...there have been many cases where the majority of people who thought the person who was accused, was guilty, and have been wrong, but I wonder how much space a post listing the number of cases where most people's common sense was correct, would take up?

But, mostly when people bring up that there is really no evidence that ties Casey to Caylee's death, I wonder then...

Why doesn't Casey tell what really happened? That, more than anything makes me think she is guilty.

I am not being snarky. I had to respond to the (horrible for me) idea that I and others who I respect their opinions and thought processes could be on a witch hunt. I do not enjoy the idea that my common sense, intuition and reasoning could lead me to be so wrong. I would rather die myself than blame an innocent but I do not think Casey is acting like a person who is innocent. I look forward to her and her honorable defense team telling in her own words, in court, why she is innocent and what really happened to Caylee. And to press a point: I do not understand why she has yet to explain herself. JB said that Casey has "compelling reasons" and I look forward to hearing them.

...jmo...

spqr said:

Ah ha...I understand you view on the above charge. I see your point but I do think she did it and I do think they have more evidence to support the charge, Although it has not been made available to the public. We shall see.

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Unlike our highly inexperienced Baez, LDB has been trying cases for 20 years. I TRUST that she knows the standards required to bring charges and that she has the evidence to back them up. The judge, apparently concurs. The truth will prevail.

I think most of us agree that no direct linking evidence of the 3 chloroform incidences has been established. So yes, Wudge is completely right on that fact, as far as what has been released thus far. But, it does not mean that many of us don't find the 3 highly suspicious, causing us to theorize and probe to find possible connections. This is afterall.. Websleuths. Theorizing and poking around for answers is what we do here.

mgardner said:

Nope it doesn't. Many diabetics nowadays use a "pen" -- where you dial in the amount of insulin, then screw a tiny 3ml needle atop (I do anyway). It looks like this was a syringe she could have been procured from Cindy?? I also need a script for my needles -- can't just buy them otc.

Just my .02

Mel

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I too use the pen and have to buy my needles separately. Before I started the pen, I used insulin from a vial with syringes. I live in Washington state and did not need a prescription for the syringes nor do I need a prescription for the tiny screw-on needles for my pens. HOWEVER, if I want my insurance to help me pay for them (and who doesn't?), I need a prescription for them.

So prescription it is.

OT, I found this definition easy to understand...


What is the Felony Murder Rule?

The Felony Murder Rule, as used in Florida, states that anyone involved in certain felonies (armed robbery, kidnapping, rape), and if in the commission of that felony, no matter their level of involvement, a death occurs, all people involved in the felony will be charged with First Degree Murder and sentenced to Life Without the Possibility of Parole, or the Death Penalty, the only two options for sentencing.

whiteangora said:

Okay, I have read all 800+ posts on this thread and nobody has convinced me that this new "evidence" is at all connected to Caylee's death. I have yet to see what the proportion of chloroform was in the syringe or the bottle. I keep thinking of how this spot on Suburban was a dump site and even though Casey is a ding-a-ling she's not goofy enough to inject Caylee then repackage a syringe and throw it out near the dump site. It is also my belief that she was not thinking clearly enough at that time to be trying to frame anyone.
So, can anyone convince me otherwise?

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I can't convince either way, as like you, I am not convinced. I'm just playing with 'what-if' scenarios. But, I agree entirely that the bolded sentence above is the singular issue that the media, state & the defense should be focusing on in order to clarify the relevance of this as evidence.

Can we jointly look in our our contact network and find an expert who could come to WS and clearly interpret the chloroform ratio findings? In both the bottle & the syringe.

Amity said:

My Mother-in-Law (rest her beloved soul) graduated from Bethesda (nursing school) back in the mid 40's.

In the early 70's she was a head nurse on a ward at our State psych hospital.
We lived with her at the time and it wasn't unusual for her to come home from work, take off her shoes, sit to read her mail at the dining room table and also start to remove things from her smock pockets ie; notes to herself about a certain patient, swab, tongue depresser, syringe (still sealed with protective cap).
Not that she stole those things....just in the course of her shift, when in a hurry, those things went into her pocket.

I'm sure Cindy, when in active nursing, did the same.

Wouldn't be unusual, at least to me, for the A's household to have a couple syringes laying around from Cindy's active nursing days.

ALSO: I am a crafter.....Jill of all trades, master to very few.
In my box of supplies, I have to have syringes, with needle attached.
Comes in handy when I am trying to glue down a very small area.
If I've decoupaged something and I can't get an air bubble down, I use my syringe, with glue, needle tip inserted into the bubble, squirt in a tiny bit of glue and gently work the bubble down on the surface.

Casey was a 'crafter'.
She could have easily looked for and found somewhere around the A home, a syringe that Cindy brought home from her active nursing days, to use on one of her crafting projects.

Anyone remember any decoupage 'art' on Casey or Caylee's bedroom walls?

Just thinking out loud.

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All very plausible theories. I am glad your brought up the "Crafting" as well.
I would also like to add my thoughts on some of the theories discussed in the thread, with some questions.

From what I understood the syringe was in a plastic bag and that is why the chloroform did not evaporate. They also found it in the Gatorade bottle.
What I don't understand is why would she inject Caylee with the chloroform? It is usually applied with a rag or cloth for a knock out effect. Could this be where the duct tape came into play? Did she duct tape Caylee's mouth so that nobody would hear her scream while she injected her with the chloroform? How inhumane if that is the case. :furious: I wonder if they were able to get any traces of Chloroform off the duct tape?

Last night it was mentioned, since the syringe was in the plastic bag they can get a lot off of it. DNA/Skin Cells/Finger Prints and other...."IMO" they just have not released all of the discovery yet. It was said in this thread early on that there was no evidence on the syringe except for the Chloroform. I think maybe there is more that just has not been released. As some have already said, if they would of found someone else's DNA/Finger prints they would of had someone else sitting in jail next to Casey. So far the only person sitting in jail, with the DP back on the table is Casey. So, again I say the State has A lot more that we just don't know about yet. I know it seems they have a lot, but something is telling me there is much much more!

As for the testosterone. One thing someone here found out yesterday that all the ingredient's found, are in a certain hair loss product. So, this could of been one of Georges, Cindy, any elder family member?


We also know that LE surfers from severe acne, so does Casey from the look of her recent pictures of her back, sometimes people with sever ache are given medications with steroids.

Also, I used to take shots in my belie for endometriosis and they were pure testosterone. So, this could be something that Cindy or Casey took. I did lose hair as well due to the hormone imbalance, which would bring up the hair loss product that was brought up yesterday in this thread. Not that it was found in the discovery, just that the ingredients in the hair loss product contained the same chemicals found in the Gatorade/syringe besides the chloroform?

We also know that Cindy cared for her parents in that home in the past, so maybe these medications came from their use. We do not know all their medical history...it could of came from any of them, another possibility.

Someone earlier had mentioned a good theory about the tattoo parlors. They sometimes use chloroform for cleaning (Not often because it's been banned, but some still do because it's cheap and some still use this for a knock out drug for recreational use)(Not saying that is the case here, just another theory), Casey frequented the tattoo parlor she could of easily went in the back with the excuse of using the restroom as someone here mentioned and took a few bottles and put them in her back pack/purse and or poured some in the Gatorade bottle. Maybe as she looked it up she found out she could get it from the tattoo parlor and went that route instead? That could also explain why they found such high levels in the trunk of the car, maybe the bottles leaked due to the Florida heat or her not closing them properly after pouring it into the Gatorade bottle or drawing it up in the syringe.

Could be why she went over to Richards M.'s?, house to do laundry, maybe it spilled in the truck, could be why they found the blood/semen traces in the blankets and other? I wonder if they found any chloroform in any of those items? Maybe mama doll got ruined and Casey ditched else where and that is why she stated they hadn't even found her clothe yet...could of been mam-ma doll and some of Caylee's that did not get washed due to being ruined by the chemicals? Or got ruined in the wash due to the chemicals. I would say search near his home, but it's been to long now and they clothe and doll could be anywhere.

Also, it was mentioned here about one of Casey's friends breading animals, the syringe and some of the chemical could of came from something that was used for the animals. Even from one of the Anthony's animals now that I think about it..

I wonder what else the state may of found in the home/pesticides canisters/trash that was collected from that lady/regular trash and so fourth....was there chloroform found anywhere else besides the trunk of the car? Not been released that I know of. I still have a gut feeling there is much more that is being sealed...for the state to put the DP back on the table they must have some very damming evidence, even though it looks like much of it is out already...I still feel there is MUCH MORE.

Okay you guys find or start another thread to discuss the charges.Murder 1.
Word to the wise: read each others posts more critically and you will understand why you are going around in circles on this topic.
read the exact words and terms because they make a difference to meaning.


Please get back to the bottle, the chloroform and the syringe as it relates to the latest doc dump.
gracias.