AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

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I really don't think she could have been "easily kidnapped and taken over the border". If so, why would perp target HER specifically???

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

Why does any perp target any one person? The answers to that question are endless.
 
(If linking this isn't allowed please let me know!)

From the June 4th Arizona Public Media article

http://www.azpm.org/news/story/2012/6/4/1558-police-on-missing-tucson-girl-there-are-suspects/
...
“Right now we’re at a point where we are following investigative paths that keep us quite busy,” Villaseñor says. “We think that this was an abduction of some kind, so obviously that infers that there are suspects that we are looking at, or people of interest that we're looking at.”
...

I read that as, LE are looking at and/or believe that more than one person abducted Isa...not just a single suspect? Or am I reading way too much into it???

Or could be a short list of possible suspects who could have taken her, they're just not certain which one.
Or could be they're looking at the parents or other relatives.
 
Can't help but be a bit curious about the lone woman at the end of this video who was concerned that she had not been interviewed by LE. At the end of the video it was reported that she was going to call 88-crime. I'm wondering what it is that she knows that she feels LE needs to know........:waitasec:

To me it seemed like she wanted to be sure that she was helping LE with the investigation and if there was any information that she may have (or may not have), she wants them to know.
She did say she isn't there very often. Maybe she was away at the time of questioning/interviewing. Her neighbor let LE into her house to search.

JAT & MOO
 
Someone knows where she is. She could just as easily have been killed by someone very close to her that lived in the house with her. With all of the news that we have had over the past couple of years of children going "missing" that turned out to be because of someone very close to the child being the one that not only killed the child but hid the child's body someplace that is very difficult to find, it is not hard to imagine the same has happened in this case to Isabel. Unfortunately perps are getting smarter and keeping their mouths shut so that there is not only no evidence of what happened but nothing to arrest them on until the missing is found. Even with all of the missing children cases that we here at WS have seen and followed that turned out to be because of a "parent", it is not something that we want to think happened in every missing child case. Unfortunately, more often than not, that is what it is.

I didn't want to think that one of Isa's parents had done anything to her, but I do believe it now.

MOO


I have followed many cases here on WS since I joined, but I can only think of 2, CA and ZB that the parents were involved in. I am not questioning your post just don't know of a high number that turned out the parents did it. jmo
 
While I thanked individual posts and hope that I didn't miss anyone, I would like to thank everyone for the early anniversary wishes (it's June 25) :tyou: We'll enjoy the peace and tranquility of charming Mackinac Island where we've spent many happy times over the years.

Just for fun: If you've never been to the enchanted island off Michigan's lower peninsula, I hope you enjoy this parody of the Pure Michigan travel campaign :D

Pure Michigan: Mackinac Island - YouTube

Looove it! :giggle: I went to college in Alma, but I never made it to the Island, the farthest north I got was Traverse City.
 
I don't know what NM has to do with anything, because I'm from TX, but everything else you posted makes sense. I think the legal limit here is .08, so two beers just before getting under the wheel would put some over the limit. I don't know anybody who would be considered drunk with only two beers.

The legal limit here is (and was) 0.08 as well.

My point is that there are cases where someone is charged with DUI even though their BAC is under the legal limit. Ever since my friend went through diversion, I've always been a little suspicious: did that person really do anything wrong or were they just doing the most expedient thing to get rid of the charges?
 
Someone knows where she is. She could just as easily have been killed by someone very close to her that lived in the house with her. With all of the news that we have had over the past couple of years of children going "missing" that turned out to be because of someone very close to the child being the one that not only killed the child but hid the child's body someplace that is very difficult to find, it is not hard to imagine the same has happened in this case to Isabel. Unfortunately perps are getting smarter and keeping their mouths shut so that there is not only no evidence of what happened but nothing to arrest them on until the missing is found. Even with all of the missing children cases that we here at WS have seen and followed that turned out to be because of a "parent", it is not something that we want to think happened in every missing child case. Unfortunately, more often than not, that is what it is.

I didn't want to think that one of Isa's parents had done anything to her, but I do believe it now.

MOO

It has nothing to do with not wanting to believe Isa's parents could harm her..at least not for me anyway. I have been researching true crime for decades and am brutally aware what some parents are capable of doing to their defenseless children.

BUT........

i dont think she was killed in her home by someone she knew. If so the K-9 dogs would have alerted to her cadaver scent instead of tracking an unfamiliar scent taken from the scent sample from Isa's bedroom window sill. The dog tracked from Isa's home over to Cooper Street (which is more likely where the perp got into his vehicle with Isa, imo) and left. The scent was so strong that it gave TPD probable cause for a SW on that home. LE doesnt ask the Mexican LE to put up missing fliers in Mexico of a child that they already know has died in their own home.

And there have also been cases where a stranger took a child from their bedroom and until this case is resolved one way or the other with the real suspect being caught... I have no idea what category to put Isa in. That is like trying to read tealeaves, imo, which I try hard not to do, especially without any facts to support it.

Until I see some valid evidence pointing to who really did this. I will not jump the gun, and assume who the suspect is when "I' really dont know. That is how I have always based my opinions. If some evidence should come to light in the near or distant future, I certainly can, and do change my opinion, but I am not nearly there yet because no evidence at all has been disclosed.

Imo, using an unknown and stating it is Isa's parents is not something I do. I also look at each case individually and not lumped together based on statistics nor what happened in the last case or the first..etc.

Imo, 115 known (and many unknown imo) do kidnap small children Isa's age from their own homes. I have no way of knowing if Isa is or isnt in that 115 who are kidnapped each year.

Now that is just how "I" base my opinions and it has served me very well over the many years being on MBs.

Of course what other posters wish to do on any given case is their entitled rights to do and give whatever opinion they wish.

This only applies to "my" opinions.


IMO
 
Madeline, good points, and what has this couple chosen to do? They've chosen to not talk to local media, but to use the Internet to try and get the story - THEIR version of the story - retweeted, with links back to social media sites that push the donation option.

Recall that Sergio and Becky said in the radio inerview that Isa was reaching people all over the world. But, why is it more important that people in Italy or the Netherlands or Egypt know about Isa, rather than people in her hometown? Maybe because they are more likely to donate - after all, they'e too far away to do anything else.

When my service dog went missing, one of the most helpful volunteers was a woman in South Africa who sent close to 1000 faxes to the businesses local to where he was missing to spread the word.

Another super helpful volunteer was a Swedish man who has extensive experience with SAR; he created and maintained a map of sightings that directly contributed to my service dog being found (because it let us see the pattern of how he was moving through the area).

When my service dog went missing, I wasn't picky as to where the people who wanted to help lived, I was just grateful they wanted to help.
 
I have followed many cases here on WS since I joined, but I can only think of 2, CA and ZB that the parents were involved in. I am not questioning your post just don't know of a high number that turned out the parents did it. jmo

But there are very many cases where nobody is charged, like Kyron, Joshua Davis, Ayla, Hailey Dunn, Haleigh Cummings, Lisa Irwin, Celina Cass. And in many of these cases, the prime suspects are the parents. imo
 
I have followed many cases here on WS since I joined, but I can only think of 2, CA and ZB that the parents were involved in. I am not questioning your post just don't know of a high number that turned out the parents did it. jmo

So you believe that an intruder killed JonBenet and kidnapped Baby Lisa? And that Ron had no involvement in Haleigh's disappearance? Do you put Misty and Terri Horman to be in the parents category? Do you believe they are innocent? What about Shawn Adkins in Hailey's case? He was the live-in boyfriend. There's been strong suspicions towards family members in all of those cases.
 
When my service dog went missing, one of the most helpful volunteers was a woman in South Africa who sent close to 1000 faxes to the businesses local to where he was missing to spread the word.

Another super helpful volunteer was a Swedish man who has extensive experience with SAR; he created and maintained a map of sightings that directly contributed to my service dog being found (because it let us see the pattern of how he was moving through the area).

When my service dog went missing, I wasn't picky as to where the people who wanted to help lived, I was just grateful they wanted to help.

That is amazing, and miraculous your dog was found! I am SO happy to know you had wonderful people helping you! What a story! Can you tell us more?
 
But there are very many cases where nobody is charged, like Kyron, Joshua Davis, Ayla, Hailey Dunn, Haleigh Cummings, Lisa Irwin, Celina Cass. And in many of these cases, the prime suspects are the parents. imo


Thought I would add Sky Metalwala...
 
With the strict TSA rules at airports, the kidnappers would have a very hard time taking Isabel to another country. Do children need passports? I'm sure they need some form of ID. I bet there was even a picture of Isabel sent out to all airports in the area. Also, the FBI doesn't seem to believe Isabel was taken to another country, or you would hear about them traveling to other countries, putting the word out about Isabel internationally, etc.

If Isabel is in another country, she will never be recognized. I don't care if someone from Scotland said they are praying for Isabel; anyone can see that international media coverage has been almost non-existant.

Tucson is VERY close to the border, and it IS very easy to drive across the border. There are many roads in rural areas with no checkpoints going in. Last time I drove from Mexico into the US, the guard, in a small shack, on a small road, just waved me in.
 
So you believe that an intruder killed JonBenet and kidnapped Baby Lisa? And that Ron had no involvement in Haleigh's disappearance? Do you put Misty and Terri Horman to be in the parents category? Do you believe they are innocent? What about Shawn Adkins in Hailey's case? He was the live-in boyfriend. There's been strong suspicions towards family members in all of those cases.
But how do you turn head to DNA?
 
So you believe that an intruder killed JonBenet and kidnapped Baby Lisa? And that Ron had no involvement in Haleigh's disappearance? Do you put Misty and Terri Horman to be in the parents category? Do you believe they are innocent? What about Shawn Adkins in Hailey's case? He was the live-in boyfriend. There's been strong suspicions towards family members in all of those cases.

I have no idea who killed JonBenet, but yes, I do believe an intruder took Lisa. And I do not think RC had anything to do with Haleigh's disappearance. No, Terri and Misty were not and are not parents. I have my doubts about Terri's innocence, and not sure about Misty. Shawn Adkins was not a parent. I do believe however just as in this case there are strong suspicions but suspicions do not prove guilt. And that was what I was responding to in that post.

But, there were also strong suspicions in Sierra's case. And those proved unfounded. I have not seen anything in Isa's situation that indicate either of her parents did anything to her. Please do not bring up RC's dismissed dui. Or SC's tickets from animal control. When I see something concrete I will base my opinion on that. And I feel that if SC's order to stay away from the boys or the CPS visit in December was in any way a dangerous issue, he would have been arrested or the order would have been issued back in December. Until I know the details I can't make a judgement. I realize other's feel very strongly about this and disagree with me, and that is their perogative. This is the way I feel and this is just my opinion. I just get very discouraged when I see comments based on invalid data. Of all the cases you named above the only one I recall as having been named a POI is Shawn Adkins. Maybe Terri, I am not sure. jmo
 
(snipped) But, there were also strong suspicions in Sierra's case. And those proved unfounded. I have not seen anything in Isa's situation that indicate either of her parents did anything to her...I just get very discouraged when I see comments based on invalid data

Any comparison of this case to Sierra's is unjustified, IMO. In Sierra's case, LE stated, over and over, that Sierra's mom, her boyfriend and her dad were cleared.

In this case, LE have stated, over and over, that the Celis' have not been cleared.

That statement you just made is based on invalid data.
 
Any comparison of this case to Sierra's is unjustified, IMO. In Sierra's case, LE stated, over and over, that Sierra's mom, her boyfriend and her dad were cleared.

In this case, LE have stated, over and over, that the Celis' have not been cleared.

That statement you just made is based on invalid data.

That actually isnt true though, Lark2.

At first they did say that in Sierra's case but Sheriff Smith was asked that question a few weeks later and clearly stated "NO ONE has been ruled out." When that complete turn was made by SS there was plenty of discussion about it.

And it really didnt matter to a lot of posters that LE had once stated they were all ruled out. On the MBs the majority were still falsely accusing Marlene of covering up for her boyfriend, Rick.

IMO
 
Any comparison of this case to Sierra's is unjustified, IMO. In Sierra's case, LE stated, over and over, that Sierra's mom, her boyfriend and her dad were cleared.

In this case, LE have stated, over and over, that the Celis' have not been cleared.

That statement you just made is based on invalid data.

No, it really isn't. It is just not clear and that is my fault. I meant suspicions from some posters and not LE. Sorry, I did not explain it very well, but my post was already too long. And as a side note I think LE has said in this case that no one has been cleared not just the parents. I guess that can be intrepreted anyway you want. jmo
 
That actually isnt true though, Lark2.

At first they did say that in Sierra's case but Sheriff Smith was asked that question a few weeks later and clearly stated "NO ONE has been ruled out." When that complete turn was made by SS there was plenty of discussion about it.

And it really didnt matter to a lot of posters that LE had once stated they were all ruled out. On the MBs the majority were still falsely accusing Marlene of covering up for her boyfriend, Rick.

IMO

And as I remember tried to drag her father into the mix. jmo
 
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