Observations from the Video on TDB

KoldKase said:

The same way he knew where the suitcase was stored under the stairs. Much easier to hunt that down than use the chair or stool within FEET of the window, you know.

Clever intruder.

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KoldKase,
LOL, an intruder with a Mensa IQ, Come On Down! Applying some CSI, if it was JDI then JonBenet would have been dumped outdoors, check your cases, this is the general outcome where fathers are involved. If it was PDI then accidents are usually claimed to be the cause.

But here we have a staged crime-scene, that is a cover up, a deliberate attempt to confuse invesigators, you have to wonder was Steve Thomas given the job precisely because he lacked prior experience?


Anyway that leaves BDI which IMO is the most consistent theory. It just might be that JonBenet was a victim of of more than one person, just my opionion.




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otg said:

I've seen them (movie posters) used before too, WL. But any time someone went to the trouble of framing and hanging it (or them) on a wall, it was because movies were a big part of their life, or (as in your case) they were big fans of a particular movie, actor, or director. The only reason for making note of it was to point out that apparently the Rs (Pats in particular) were big movie fans and probably would have seen some of the movies that had phrases in them that were used in the ransom novel.

Also note that these were in the basement. Does that mean that they had others in the other rooms, or that they were just no longer being used?
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My immediate thoughts on seeing the movie poster/s in the basement was that it was trying to "fun up" the area. Like in a play room or rumpus room or whatever. Again, nothing too sinister.

We also have a Batman Returns poster framed in our house, but not because we're feral about the film, just that my wife liked Catwoman.

Just wary about reading too much into everything we see

I saw a second cobweb on the window itself. Actually it was shown before the large web on the bottom left. I don't know how to a screen shot otherwise I would.

I do recognize those rolls of paper in the closet as the striped wallpaper in the house. Jail black and white and pink and white.

wonderllama said:

My immediate thoughts on seeing the movie poster/s in the basement was that it was trying to "fun up" the area. Like in a play room or rumpus room or whatever. Again, nothing too sinister.

We also have a Batman Returns poster framed in our house, but not because we're feral about the film, just that my wife liked Catwoman.

Just wary about reading too much into everything we see

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wonderllama,
Sure, point taken. But who do reckon was more taken by the Hollywood glitz, Patsy or John?

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wonderllama said:

My immediate thoughts on seeing the movie poster/s in the basement was that it was trying to "fun up" the area. Like in a play room or rumpus room or whatever. Again, nothing too sinister.

We also have a Batman Returns poster framed in our house, but not because we're feral about the film, just that my wife liked Catwoman.

Just wary about reading too much into everything we see

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I agree, WL, about reading too much in to any one thing. But taken with other things that point to one individual as the author of the RN, I think it's interesting to make note of the number of framed movie posters and imagine that that person was some sort of movie fan.

(BTW, I rather liked Catwoman myself -- but for different reasons enirely, I'm sure.) :giggle:
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Amalie said:

I saw a second cobweb on the window itself. Actually it was shown before the large web on the bottom left. I don't know how to a screen shot otherwise I would.

I do recognize those rolls of paper in the closet as the striped wallpaper in the house. Jail black and white and pink and white.

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Amalie, indeed there were lots of cobwebs all over that window opening and on the broken glass itself.

Just do a search on Google and you'll find lots of free programs to capture screen shots.

Also, a lot have already been captured by our posters here who are also at [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6"]FFJ[/ame] (KoldKase and Cynic particularly). If you find one that has what you're looking for, just copy and paste the link here in your post. For instance, here is a shot of the rolls of wall paper you were referring to:




The thread is [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9777"]here[/ame], and the recent posts start toward the bottom of the first page.
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UKGuy said:

KoldKase,
LOL, an intruder with a Mensa IQ, Come On Down! Applying some CSI, if it was JDI then JonBenet would have been dumped outdoors, check your cases, this is the general outcome where fathers are involved. If it was PDI then accidents are usually claimed to be the cause.

But here we have a staged crime-scene, that is a cover up, a deliberate attempt to confuse invesigators, you have to wonder was Steve Thomas given the job precisely because he lacked prior experience?


Anyway that leaves BDI which IMO is the most consistent theory. It just might be that JonBenet was a victim of of more than one person, just my opionion.




.

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Thomas wasn't "inexperienced." And he was never fooled by the Ramseys or the evidence.

He had been working in LE for about a decade, if memory serves, and undercover for a while up until the time of the murder.

It's fair to say he was "inexperienced" in murder investigation if you want to delineate investigative protocol to that specifically. Sure it's better to have more experience in that area than less, but Thomas ran circles around Lou Smit, who managed to convince quite a few people he solved hundreds of homicides all by his lonesome in the decades he worked as a detective.

In point of fact, Smit was a relic and most criminals aren't that smart, either. I think anyone who reads Kolar's book will find what has been obvious to many of us all along: Smit was a crank. He couldn't find his butt with a flashlight and a map in the Ramsey murder, so I'm thinking he had a LOT of help in those "hundreds" he took credit for.

In fact, the one case he claimed to be "famous" for solving turned out to be nothing more than a cold case others had worked which he pulled back out as a newly hired supervisor of detectives. Smit wasn't the detective who figured out why the fingerprint that "broke" the murder case never had a hit: it was a younger detective who was familiar with fingerprint databases from state to state and advised Smit to run it in a different way to check in other states. And it got a hit in Texas. I'm not making this up: this story came out of late, with Smit admitting this himself and finally giving credit to the young cop.

Now back to Thomas: in the BPD, he was no more inexperienced than anyone else. Remember Boulder seldom had homicides. JB's was the first that year--on Dec. 26th. So the BPD didn't have a homicide unit. Instead, the detectives all rotated through the various departments. That's why Thomas had been on the drug detective duty: in Boulder, it's probably a busy job.

Thomas was not sent to the Ramsey house that morning, either. It was a few days before he was pulled off his other assignment and put on the JB case. They needed their best, and he was certainly one of their best. One only needs to read his book and watch him question the Ramseys on LKL to see that, IMO.

I think Kolar's book is a perfect companion book-end to Thomas': both these detectives know exactly how to do this job, and they are both excellent at it.

And they both had the very same experience: Team Ramsey shut them down as fast as they could, with two DA's help.

Because they both, independently and years apart, saw where the evidence truly led: straight back to the Ramseys.

JMO, of course.

I don't agree with every single part of ST's theory, but one thing I am sure of- he had NO agenda. He simply wanted to solve this crime, and he followed the evidence all the way, no matter where it led. One of the fatal mistakes Smit made was he was unable to do the same because he wouldn't allow himself to think of the parents as suspects. Because they PRAYED with him- because they were Christians. If I were guilty, I'd pray too. Pray to get away with it. Pray that the truth NEVER came out. Lacy made the same mistake. As someone blindly pro-woman, she was incapable of considering Patsy as being responsible in any way. Smit and Lacy's behavior was unprofessional and inexcusable. They DID have an agenda- deflect all suspicion from the Rs no matter what evidence suggested. And as we saw with Lacy, try to pin the tail on the first donkey they could find.

"FONT=Arial]There are exploratory holes drilled and poked in the wall (some already plastered along with plasterboard seams), exposed live electrical wires, and workmen’s writing on the wall (indicating 115-volt). Could it be that at the time this was filmed, they were already looking for a source of electrical burns? "


I found out what BBM means and I don't know how to do it, but last night I posted on Super Dave's thread of Clever or Lucky. I don't know if I can ( or how I could) put that post here again.

I saw electrical wires on the floor and one leads back to what I can see is a transformer for a model train. I looked online and found one that looks like it. Tadpole found the same one that I had. It's listed on Ebay as a Lionel type R Trainmaster Transformer. I've been reading on FFJ about the electrical deer fence at the Whites and Burke or JonBenet getting a mild shock from it. Could Burke put the wires to the train track and then to JonBenet face and back? Thinking it would be a mild shock like the fence at the Whites, but it was much more than what he expected?


I wonder if John played with trains as a young boy? That is a Trainmaster transformer from 1945- 1969. Did John spend any time playing with trains with JAR? Just wondering. Also in the photo of the desk? where there is a pink child purse and a rail car is a candlestick holder that holds several candles. Could that of been used for the head bash?

Where were John's golf clubs in the basement? Is that the storage room with the suitcase? Why use the suitcase when there is a small step stool and a child's chair close at hand?



There also of photo of what looks like a rectangle blue material that has what looked like strips of leather? and it had something circled in white. Could that be the thing next to the elephant drawing? What do you think it is?

ILikeToBendPages said:

"FONT=Arial]There are exploratory holes drilled and poked in the wall (some already plastered along with plasterboard seams), exposed live electrical wires, and workmen’s writing on the wall (indicating 115-volt). Could it be that at the time this was filmed, they were already looking for a source of electrical burns? "


I found out what BBM means and I don't know how to do it, but last night I posted on Super Dave's thread of Clever or Lucky. I don't know if I can ( or how I could) put that post here again.

I saw electrical wires on the floor and one leads back to what I can see is a transformer for a model train. I looked online and found one that looks like it. Tadpole found the same one that I had. It's listed on Ebay as a Lionel type R Trainmaster Transformer. I've been reading on FFJ about the electrical deer fence at the Whites and Burke or JonBenet getting a mild shock from it. Could Burke put the wires to the train track and then to JonBenet face and back? Thinking it would be a mild shock like the fence at the Whites, but it was much more than what he expected?


I wonder if John played with trains as a young boy? That is a Trainmaster transformer from 1945- 1969. Did John spend any time playing with trains with JAR? Just wondering. Also in the photo of the desk? where there is a pink child purse and a rail car is a candlestick holder that holds several candles. Could that of been used for the head bash?

Where were John's golf clubs in the basement? Is that the storage room with the suitcase? Why use the suitcase when there is a small step stool and a child's chair close at hand?



There also of photo of what looks like a rectangle blue material that has what looked like strips of leather? and it had something circled in white. Could that be the thing next to the elephant drawing? What do you think it is?

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No, the exposed wiring was from previous work at the home, and electric burns from something like that would differ from those from a stun gun. JB was not electrocuted, which causes death in a way that the coroner would have discovered. She died from ligature strangulation and that head blow. Nothing in the autopsy point to anything else.
JR's golf clubs can be seen in a crime photo right outside the wineceller door. There is another set against a wall that can be only partially seen. I am not sure whether they both were his.
The suitcase was in what was called the "train room"= where the trains were set up. No one used that suitcase to climb on- and yes, there was a chair anyway. The ONLY one who started that crap with the suitcase being used to climb on was Lou Smit. Then, the RST ran with it.

DeeDee249 said:

No, the exposed wiring was from previous work at the home, and electric burns from something like that would differ from those from a stun gun. JB was not electrocuted, which causes death in a way that the coroner would have discovered. She died from ligature strangulation and that head blow. Nothing in the autopsy point to anything else.
JR's golf clubs can be seen in a crime photo right outside the wineceller door. There is another set against a wall that can be only partially seen. I am not sure whether they both were his.
The suitcase was in what was called the "train room"= where the trains were set up. No one used that suitcase to climb on- and yes, there was a chair anyway. The ONLY one who started that crap with the suitcase being used to climb on was Lou Smit. Then, the RST ran with it.

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The bare wiring in the closest would be different than wiring going through a transformer.

If you take the ends of those two black electric cords that are on the floor (and just about touching), and touch the metal pins on the two pieces of train track and put current to it though the transformer and touch them to a person you could give some one an nasty shock. Much like a stun gun. On a small child it might cause more disruption of their nervous system than a larger person.

Hmm I wonder if duct tape would of been used to hold the wires to the track? Like that found on JonBenet.

JonBenet had strange marks on her when she was found. They got there somehow. I'm just wondering if something like that could of happened if they got in a fight and Burke did it to hurt her, but wasn't expecting that much current to knock her down and out.


I'm trying to remember something about finding evidence of an electrical shock on the body's skin after they were exhumed. I guess that would be something John would hate to come out if they were to exhumed JonBenet?

JonBenet could of been slammed back into something causing the head bash when the track pins touched her. It would of had more force than a pushing or a shoving by hand in anger.

I think that everything that happened to JonBenet after the head bash is staged. I'm still going back and forth between who assaulted her with the paintbrush. That was to cover up and mask prior digital penetration. I think the person that shoved that paintbrush in their daughter's vagina, was the one that knelt on her back and strangled her to death.

I know no one went through that window, but someone wants people to believe a intruder did. I was just wondering why not use the step stool or chair instead of the suitcase.

Just stuff that goes through my head.

DeeDee249 said:

I don't agree with every single part of ST's theory, but one thing I am sure of- he had NO agenda. He simply wanted to solve this crime, and he followed the evidence all the way, no matter where it led. One of the fatal mistakes Smit made was he was unable to do the same because he wouldn't allow himself to think of the parents as suspects. Because they PRAYED with him- because they were Christians. If I were guilty, I'd pray too. Pray to get away with it. Pray that the truth NEVER came out. Lacy made the same mistake. As someone blindly pro-woman, she was incapable of considering Patsy as being responsible in any way. Smit and Lacy's behavior was unprofessional and inexcusable. They DID have an agenda- deflect all suspicion from the Rs no matter what evidence suggested. And as we saw with Lacy, try to pin the tail on the first donkey they could find.

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I have a huge issue with the fact that Lou Smit prayed with the Ramseys. To me, that is highly unprofessional. Sure, he was an independent investigator at this time, and could pick & chose whether or not he wanted to work a particular case. Perhaps he'd not have done that had he been a regularly employed detective in a police department. But I fear that if a "client" or "suspect" was not a Christian, or had refusded to pray with him, he'd have automatically presumed their guilt, and worked his "investigation" (I use that term in the most broad sense, given his incompetence) to "prove" guilt.

This is just my opinion, and if there is any evidence to the contrary I am open to hearing it. Otherwise, this is my biggest red flag in Lou Smit's involvement in the case, especially now that we know for sure certain scenes from the BPD tape were shown to have been cropped to present "facts" to sway opinion in the direction of IDI theories.

What I don't understand is why someone just didn't say "STFU Lou, we have this video showing a spider web in the corner of the window making it highly unlikely someone came in that way". Instead they let his video of getting into the basement through the window go unchallenged.

It would be nice to see a lot more of the videos taken that day.

Great clip of Ruthless People otg. Haven't seen it in a long time and the wording is eerily close to the ransom note.

BTW, long time lurker here. Finally registered. I did post on Topix a few times last year but there are some strange ones on that board .

ILikeToBendPages said:

"FONT=Arial]There are exploratory holes drilled and poked in the wall (some already plastered along with plasterboard seams), exposed live electrical wires, and workmen’s writing on the wall (indicating 115-volt). Could it be that at the time this was filmed, they were already looking for a source of electrical burns? "


I found out what BBM means and I don't know how to do it, but last night I posted on Super Dave's thread of Clever or Lucky. I don't know if I can ( or how I could) put that post here again.

I saw electrical wires on the floor and one leads back to what I can see is a transformer for a model train. I looked online and found one that looks like it. Tadpole found the same one that I had. It's listed on Ebay as a Lionel type R Trainmaster Transformer. I've been reading on FFJ about the electrical deer fence at the Whites and Burke or JonBenet getting a mild shock from it. Could Burke put the wires to the train track and then to JonBenet face and back? Thinking it would be a mild shock like the fence at the Whites, but it was much more than what he expected?


I wonder if John played with trains as a young boy? That is a Trainmaster transformer from 1945- 1969. Did John spend any time playing with trains with JAR? Just wondering. Also in the photo of the desk? where there is a pink child purse and a rail car is a candlestick holder that holds several candles. Could that of been used for the head bash?

Where were John's golf clubs in the basement? Is that the storage room with the suitcase? Why use the suitcase when there is a small step stool and a child's chair close at hand?



There also of photo of what looks like a rectangle blue material that has what looked like strips of leather? and it had something circled in white. Could that be the thing next to the elephant drawing? What do you think it is?

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Highlight the part you want to quote, copy it then paste it between You actually type

and

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and the beginning and end of the quote. The quote will then appear in a blue box.

It's my understanding that the voltage coming out of a model train transformer is quite low - something in the range of 20v or less. Stun guns are very high voltage. In '96 a typical stun gun might have had something like 25,000 v.

The amperage on stun guns is very very low. That's why the high voltage doesn't kill.

Model RR transformers put out various amps. W/o know the specific make/model of transformer we can't say much.

The marks were abrasions, not electrical burns.

Chrishope said:

It's my understanding that the voltage coming out of a model train transformer is quite low - something in the range of 20v or less. Stun guns are very high voltage. In '96 a typical stun gun might have had something like 25,000 v.

The amperage on stun guns is very very low. That's why the high voltage doesn't kill.

Model RR transformers put out various amps. W/o know the specific make/model of transformer we can't say much.

The marks were abrasions, not electrical burns.

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There were three photo's taken of the train track and the cords. Not as many photo's of the window and the broken glass, but I wonder why take those three as a major focal point out of that room. The storage room with the suitcase had more crap on the floor around it so why not take more of the things all around it?

The Lionel type R Trainmaster Transformer is listed at 115 volts 110 watts and 60 Hertz. I think that is what the object is on the corner of the desk. I don't know what the marks on her face are. I'm trying to think what part of those marks were involved in JonBenet death. Nothing has been said if it was on her face at the Whites, so they had to of happened that night. So I guess I'm looking for the what are they and why are they on JonBenet.

wonderllama said:

We have them.
Star Wars posters as we're big fans.
I'm not sure I'd be reading much into it.

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heyya wonderllama.

Could read into it though.
Yet, another interesting coincidence, is that Death on the Nile plot,
*SPOILER ALERT!*, involves the staging of a crime.

The "Ruthless People" clip was incredibly close to the wording and cadence of the ransom tome!

Well yes, that's right, but I'm wary of connecting ALL the dots on the page.

Were the walls that were being remodeled in the basement torn out following the murder? I'm asking because it would have been simple enough to drop the missing portion of the paint brush into one of those holes in the walls.