FLOOR-PLAN of Baby Lisa Irwin's home likelihood of this being stranger abduction

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Mountain_Kat said:
Oh man...I think I just figured out what the clicking sound was...the occillating fan beside Debbie's bed. If it fell over while still on occillate...click click click...

Cadaver dog hit at the foot of the bed...fan at the foot of the bed. :(
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Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
Ok - good point. How would the intruder know that the window needed to be propped up? Unless the intruder tried it once and it fell down on the person - still makes noise.
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Or the intruder was familiar with the family or neighborhood.
 
Wise Old Owl said:
Also, if the intruder propped the window open and then left through the front door - that window would have been found still propped open with whatever was used. And it wasn't found that way.
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Not necessarily, but any stick or crowbar that was used to prop open the window should be found close to the house ... since it was only needed to get in.
 
carole said:
BBM

Junkies - where did that come from???
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Speculating about who the intruder might have been. Burglaries, especially stupid ones with people home, etc., are junkies looking for something quick to sell. We've seen more than one recent story about a child being offered for sale in exchange for drugs. If someone was desperate for a fix, wonked out and looking for something to trade or sell, some cell phones and a baby could do. The same person might be on foot (junkies, like alcoholics, have often lost their licenses or in the case of junkies, their car because they couldn't keep up the payments or had to trade them for drugs). They might walk with the child from dealer to dealer looking for someone who wanted to buy. I know an addict whose child was taken by the dealer and held hostage. For the Irwins, though, it looks like their drug of choice was kept to boxed wine, so I'm thinking the same intruder - perhaps - who was burglarizing Jeremy's car came back for a crack at the house.
 
otto said:
Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.
Click to expand...

Video showed that carpet to be quite light in color. It would be hard to fully clean up a blood stain from that color carpet, IMHO.
 
otto said:
Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.
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It isn't a rumor. It's in the search warrant the judge signed allowing LE to go in for a more thorough search on Wed. They brought additional cadaver dogs in. LE has applied to the court to have what was found on Wed. sealed. The first search warrant said that a cadaver dog alerted to "the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed". It says nothing about the scent being on the carpet.

We started speculating about the carpet when CSIs brought out a carpet/rug during the search on Wed.

Read State's Motion to Seal Court Records filed last Friday here - http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf
 
Since the room is fully carpeted, where on the "area of the floor" could there had been a bloody baby hit by an oscillating fan?

Or do I misunderstand the scenario that others are laying out?
 
dovebar said:
Since the room is fully carpeted, where on the "area of the floor" could there had been a bloody baby hit by an oscillating fan?

Or do I misunderstand the scenario that others are laying out?
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BBM


The scent of a deceased human/human decomposition is not blood. It is the gases that begin to form from the decaying/rotting body immediately after a human dies.
 
I understand that. My question was, how could a baby be hit by a live fan without getting bloody?
 
dovebar said:
I understand that. My question was, how could a baby be hit by a live fan without getting bloody?
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OOPS. Sorry.

The fan may have simply been knocked over by someone and caused the clicking sound. How or why, who knows.
 
Rendered model view from kitchen to hallway bedrooms: Lisa and boys. Which is Lisa's bedroom? Left or right?

lisarenderedkitchentohallway.jpg
 
With this picture ^^^^^ I am thinking the kids' rooms should be reversed. Didn't we see that one male reporter standing in front of that door and you could see behind him to his left, and it was the crib with the tubs still in it.
 
carole said:
It isn't a rumor. It's in the search warrant the judge signed allowing LE to go in for a more thorough search on Wed. They brought additional cadaver dogs in. LE has applied to the court to have what was found on Wed. sealed. The first search warrant said that a cadaver dog alerted to "the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed". It says nothing about the scent being on the carpet.

We started speculating about the carpet when CSIs brought out a carpet/rug during the search on Wed.

Read State's Motion to Seal Court Records filed last Friday here - http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf
Click to expand...

We know that her daughter was asleep in her own bed when mom had drinks on the porch with the neighbor, so presumably the only thing that could have happened is the 11 month old was taken into the master bedroom between 10:30 PM and 4:00 AM, got caught in the covers and died while the mom and brother were asleep in the bed ... and they both pretended that nothing happened? That's weird. I find it hard to believe that there is a genuine cadaver dog alert at the foot of the bed.
 
otto said:
We know that her daughter was asleep in her own bed when mom had drinks on the porch with the neighbor, so presumably the only thing that could have happened is the 11 month old was taken into the master bedroom, got caught in the covers and died while the mom and brother were asleep in the bed ... and they both pretended that nothing happened? That's weird. I find it hard to believe that there is a genuine cadaver dog alert at the foot of the bed.
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Why would that be the only possible scenario? I could come up with other ones.
 
gwenabob said:
With this picture ^^^^^ I am thinking the kids' rooms should be reversed. Didn't we see that one male reporter standing in front of that door and you could see behind him to his left, and it was the crib with the tubs still in it.
Click to expand...

So the baby's bedroom is on the left and the boy's bedroom shares a wall with the computer room?
 
otto said:
So the baby's bedroom is on the left and the boy's bedroom shares a wall with the computer room?
Click to expand...

Well, based on that one photo we saw of the reporter. I wish I knew where to find it now. But he is standing right in front of that door to the hallway, and behind him is the room with the crib. So that is what I am thinking.
 
So the baby's room is on the right?

It really wouldn't make that much difference in terms of how the break in occurred, since the bedrooms are side by side on the other side of the bathroom from the master bedroom.
 
gwenabob said:
Well, based on that one photo we saw of the reporter. I wish I knew where to find it now. But he is standing right in front of that door to the hallway, and behind him is the room with the crib. So that is what I am thinking.
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I remember the male reporter too, over-exposed ... it must be on this thread towards the beginning because I saw it and I haven't read any other related threads.
 
The Today Show was in the house and if you were to stand at the doorway in the parents room, the boys room is at the end of that hallway facing the parents bedroom. Lisa's bedroom is in the middle.

As soon as the video is posted online, I will post it.
 
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