17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

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That's such good news, even if it has taken them forever to get there. From this they can figure out what people might have heard and seen from various places, and whether Zimmerman's story makes any sense at all.

IMO IF they agree that GZ was in fact covered under the SYG law, many will still believe it is a cover up.JMO and if they wind up arresting GZ the rest of us will believe it was due to Pressure because of the racial tensions.JMO:cow:
 
If some witnesses matched what GZ said , I would think he came out to see injuries and to see if there was a reasonable claim under that law.JMO if GZ was arrested and was covered under the SYG law there would be lawsuits for unlawful arrest.JMO

Yeah, I get that. I'm just curious about the urgency and personal interest her. There certainly didn't seem to be the same urgency to identify TM in the morgue or contact his next of kin.

People are detained for questioning for much lesser offenses all the time.

It's just very hinky to me. That's my opinion.
 
Unfortunately, the law disagrees with you. JMO

The law as Mr. Z has chosen to apply it to himself disagrees. If investigators proved that TM was in fear of his life and took steps to defend himself the law can't support both. One has to be judged responsible. jmo
 
Yeah, I get that. I'm just curious about the urgency and personal interest her. There certainly didn't seem to be the same urgency to identify TM in the morgue or contact his next of kin.

People are detained for questioning for much lesser offenses all the time.

It's just very hinky to me. That's my opinion.
They came to his father the next morning. What more were they supposed to do?
 
Do we know for a fact that GZ disregarded the dispatchers suggestion to not follow TM?

Actually, I don't know that we know very much factually about anything at this point. Mostly, we know what msm has wrongfully reported. jmo

Hopefully, the official investigation will clear up a lot of this supposing.
 
Where did you get this from? He lived in Virginia and then Florida. The records show up in the Orange County, Florida court records.

:waitasec:

You're correct - his conviction did occur in Florida. Apologies for the confusion.
 
Sorry, but you are incorrect.

He was convicted of assault on LE, but the record was allegedly expunged once he completed a diversion program. That's not the same thing as having charges dropped, nor is it the same thing as being declared not guilty.

That's not what I read. Zimmerman was arrested and charged with assault on an officer. The charge was later reduced to a misdemeanor and dismissed, after Zimmerman underwent a diversion program which apparently included anger management. So, there was no conviction.

But, the point is, he is the only one of the two who has been arrested for violence, who had multiple other allegations of violence made against him resulting in a mutual stay away order and he is the only one of the two who has reported, aggressive behavior as complaints to both the HOA and to LE were apparently made by his neighbors.

Trayvon is reported as a gentle person. His brother and parents seem like gentle, soft-spoken people. Nothing has surfaced that actually evidences any aggressiveness on the part of Trayvon, as it has on the part of Zimmerman.

It's not rocket science. Zimmerman has an aggressive or violent background. He has a hero complex or control issues, evidenced by his years of repeatedly calling LE for various things and his stated desires to become an officer, that never were satisfied. Zimmerman is the one who followed an unarmed teenager who was walking, alone, even after the dispatcher stated he did not need to do that. Zimmerman is the one who was "fed up" according to his friend and who followed a person who he had not seen doing anything criminal, after stating, "they always get away".

Even without Trayvon's girlfriend stating he was scared that a strange man was following him and was trying to lose the strange man who later reappeared and confronted him, even without the 911 calls that reveal a youthful voice shouting in a panicked quest for help, it is clear who the aggressor was more likely to be. IMO.
 
The law as Mr. Z has chosen to apply it to himself disagrees. If investigators proved that TM was in fear of his life and took steps to defend himself the law can't support both. One has to be judged responsible. jmo
The initial aggressor. The person that made the first aggressive move. Following someone is not aggressive. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, Martin would be able to defend himself and Zimmerman would not be protected via the law. If Martin really just hauled off and punched Zimmerman and then pinned him to the ground, Martin would be the initial aggressor and would not be protected via the law.
 
Working on a new thread, will be closing this one in a few...

Ima
 
This is my stance...

I don't care what injuries Zimmerman has? I have stated over and over again that I had wished Trayvon would have slammed his head so hard against that cement that it would have knocked him unconscious... that way... he would have at least lived.

It makes absolutely no sense that Trayvon would be running from the person who was following him (Zimmerman says he was running) and then do a complete 360 and choose to then follow Zimmerman and attack him from behind.

I do not believe Zimmerman's version of events because they do not make sense. I do not believe Trayvon attacked Zimmerman from the back as he was innocently walking back to his car.

I do believe that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. I do believe that Zimmerman made it known to Trayvon that he had a gun. Whether he went for it at that moment... or just lifted his shirt to show it? I believe Zimmerman did try to detain Trayvon. I believe Zimmerman was the one who put his hands on Trayvon first. I think Trayvon then hit Zimmerman and the men went to the ground. Possibly with Zimmerman's hands grabbing on to Trayvon's shirt. I believe this is where we get the wrestling from... I believe that both Zimmerman and Trayvon switched being on top... bottom... whatever. I think forensics will show that Trayvon was on his back... just as Zimmerman was on his back.

I believe 100% that Zimmerman was the aggressor from start to finish. Trayvon was defending himself and came up short. Which is usually what happens when someone else brings a gun to the fight.
 
I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. That means anyone that starts coming toward you saying something gives you the right to assault them. If GZ walked up to him and said 'hey, hold it right there', that allows TM to assault him?

You have absolutely no proof that GZ ran after him with his gun out.

There's no proof he didn't. There is only GZ's word. Who had the most of lose? Wasn't GZ, he left the safety of his car. Wasn't GZ he had the gun. jmo
 
The Federal government may come up with of a criminal charge concerning the Trayvon
Martin case because Zimmerman appears to have had little probable cause for following
a kid with Ice tea who was on the phone with his girlfriend and was not in the act of committing a crime. It was a mistake to pick on this kid in the first place.
Have any of you ever been suspected of committing a crime that you did not do just because of your skin color or your clothes? This is creepy. It's scary! It will make you angry when it happens to you.

regarding the "probable cause" was the tea in his hand, pocket or bag? wasn't he cutting through yards? also, he was not a regular in the neighborhood and was out walking in the rain.
 
if Mr Zimmerman had remained in his car and allowed the real law enforecement to check into the alleged suspicious young man walking in a public area and doing nothing wrong, then this entire episode would have been avoided and Mr Martin would be around to tell his side of the story and defend against accusations that he deserved or earned his death.
 
Snipped for space...

Zimmerman, an adult with a car and a gun, was scared of this kid he was following. How much more frightened would this unarmed boy be. Zimmerman could have left off the pursuit at ANY time, this boy never had this option.

< mod snip >

Zimmerman forfeited his right to claim self defense the moment he got out of his car.

Unfortunately, the law disagrees with you. JMO

No, it doesn't disagree with that. Please read the link in my signature.

Forida Gun Licensing says that you cannot chase down someone and shoot them. That is not the same thing as stand your ground.

And it is not "castle doctrine" unless you are inside your home or someone else's home, or in a place of business.

You can't (usually) get away with shooting someone just for name-calling or even fighting with you. They give the example of someone being beaten with a garden hose - which would be painful but not life-threatening enough for killing to be the proper response. The proper response would be to run away and stop the fighting.

George made a choice to get out of the car, no matter what the dispatcher said to him. He was a grown man and he pursued a teenager instead of waiting for police to sort it out. :twocents:

Trayvon was on a street then on the grass. He was not committing a burglary or crime and Zimmerman had no reason to see him as an imminent threat to life and limb until he got out of the car and approached.

Again, the dispatcher was vague and said "We don't need you to do that." Only he knows what he meant, but we can reasonably assume that he wanted Zimmerman to wait for the police. JMOO
 
ORIGINAL POST SONGLINE:
But he did not see the beginning of the scuffle.



So what? According to Robert Zimmerman Jr. and Zimmerman Sr., George was constantly having his head slammed into the concrete for about a minute, almost losing consciousness, BEFORE George shot Trayvon in the chest *to save his own life.*

imo

:what:SO WHAT? :what:
If you do not know how a fight started then you dont know why it had to end as it did either.
IF all you see is part of it. it is not a so what? :nono:
 
There's no proof he didn't. There is only GZ's word. Who had the most of lose? Wasn't GZ, he left the safety of his car. Wasn't GZ he had the gun. jmo

If he had his gun drawn, don't you think TM would say on the phone, this guy is coming at me with a gun?
 
BBM

TM is dead. TM didn't have a history of violent behavior. GZ did. Why would I weigh in factors that don't correlate directly to an individual's propensity to commit a violent crime?

We don't know whether or not TM has a history of violence. He was a 17 year old boy - boys get into fights all the time, it wouldn't be unusual or unheard of. Most fights aren't reported to LE. GZ was probably in more fights than the one where his mistake was not knowing he chose an undercover officer. It's a guy thing and it happens every day between guys.

I think anyone is capable of violence in the right circumstance. If Trayvon thought GZ was going for a gun, instead of his phone, he could have panicked and slugged him.

I wrote a post on the last thread citing recent crime statistics and an official study of the area where Trayvon lived - teens being shot and killed is not uncommon. Violent crimes are extraordinarily high. Kids learn how to survive in that environment.

Gang Violence Growing In North Miami-Dade
April 1, 2012

"Police sources estimate that along a stretch of the county no more than seven or eight miles long and three or four miles wide as many as 30 people were shot and eight killed in March.

&#8220;It&#8217;s the North Side, it&#8217;s Liberty City, it&#8217;s Miami Gardens, it&#8217;s Opa Locka, it&#8217;s Model Cities,&#8221; Finnie noted. &#8220;I mean this is one community, its different boundaries but its one community, one family, and we should have one goal to resolve this issue.&#8221;
 
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