The cries for help

Concerned Papa · May 9, 2012

gxm said:
BBM.

Interesting. Perhaps the black trim elements on GZ's jacket made the red body of the jacket look like a t-shirt in the dark. IMO, red is much easier to see in the dark than black. This is the witness who says GZ (the man in red on the ground) was screaming for help and asked him to call 911. Yes?

But...but...I thought....

gxm said:
~Snipped For Comment~

It was dark, it was rainy, and IMO GZ could have thought he was near the spot the sidewalks intersected. Just as TM could have thought he was running toward home instead of in the opposite direction. Given that this is a condo community, and all the buildings look similar, add to that the terrible visibility, and IMO it's not a point I would call someone a "liar" on.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Or does that "dark, rainy, terrible visibility" only work for certain ones? :waitasec:

BTW, that's a 13 year old boy who said he was 20-25 yards away. Ever taken a good look at a map to see just exactly how far it is from witness "John's" little bathroom window to where George's attorney said the body was at?

AJ Noiter · May 9, 2012

Concerned Papa said:
But...but...I thought....

Or does that "dark, rainy, terrible visibility" only work for certain ones? :waitasec:

BTW, that's a 13 year old boy who said he was 20-25 yards away. Ever taken a good look at a map to see just exactly how far it is from witness "John's" little bathroom window to where George's attorney said the body was at?

This comment isn't directed at anyone specifically, but the visibility was actually quite good for a rainy, post nautical twilight night. It was 7 miles based on the METAR posted (now) over in the timeline.

Concerned Papa · May 9, 2012

AJ Noiter said:
This comment isn't directed at anyone specifically, but the visibility was actually quite good for a rainy, post nautical twilight night. It was 7 miles based on the METAR posted (now) over in the timeline.

FWIW, I've never thought otherwise.

Elley Mae · May 9, 2012

LambChop said:
John said he believes it was GZ calling for someone to help him and did not claim he heard GZ screaming. The boy walking his dog said he believes the person screaming was TM because he sounded like a kid screaming. So to date I don't think there are any witnesses who have said they thought it was GZ screaming right before the shot. The majority claim it sounds like the voice of a young male. jmo

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...appened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083

One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket — Zimmerman — on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him — Trayvon.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me 'Help, help,' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down. The person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," he said.

bbm I would say that john saw and not believed.jmo Not a guessing game in my opinion.

AJ Noiter · May 9, 2012

ILikeToBendPages said:
I think George put his gun in the waistband of his pants when he got out of his truck and let Trayvon see it because you know these a###### always get away,and that is what started the the life or death struggle.

That makes sense to me. Trayvon would of been facing a man that was following him , confronted him and now had a gun.

If this were the case you'd think he would've stated, on the phone with his girlfriend, that he saw the weapon. You'd also think that just because he thinks he lost sight of Mr. Zimmerman, he'd still be in a hurry to get home.

Side Note: Not sure about other carriers, but my weapon is in its holster when I put the holster on. I do not remove my weapon from that holster unless I am cleaning it or using it. With that said, it seems silly that someone would get out of a vehicle THEN put the weapon in the holster.

LambChop · May 9, 2012

Elley Mae said:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...appened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083

One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket Zimmerman on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him Trayvon.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me 'Help, help,' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down. The person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," he said.

bbm I would say that john saw and not believed.jmo Not a guessing game in my opinion.

I don't believe the yelling for help was the same as the screeching sound we heard on the 911 tapes seconds before the gunshot. The boy believes the screaming came from TM. At some point they both could have been yelling for help which could indicate that both felt they were being attacked by an aggressor. But only one is screaming. SA was fortunate to have their timelines right there on the 911 tapes. jmo

AngelWings444 · May 9, 2012

Elley Mae said:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...appened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083

One man interviewed by a local Fox news station, who asked to be identified only as John, said he saw the man wearing a red jacket Zimmerman on the ground, being beaten by someone on top of him Trayvon.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me 'Help, help,' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down. The person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," he said.

bbm I would say that john saw and not believed.jmo Not a guessing game in my opinion.

THIS gets me every time with John's story. IF Trayvon was on the top, GZ on the bottom, yelling "help, help", why in the world would John tell GZ "to stop".

AJ Noiter · May 9, 2012

AngelWings444 said:
THIS gets me every time with John's story. IF Trayvon was on the top, GZ on the bottom, yelling "help, help", why in the world would John tell GZ "to stop".

I don't think he's being very clear. There are two possible "hims" in what he's saying.

Elley Mae · May 9, 2012

AngelWings444 said:
THIS gets me every time with John's story. IF Trayvon was on the top, GZ on the bottom, yelling "help, help", why in the world would John tell GZ "to stop".

I have no idea, but I am looking forward to hear what he (john) has to say. If there is a trial. jmo I think he is the most important witness.

gxm · May 9, 2012

AngelWings444 said:
THIS gets me every time with John's story. IF Trayvon was on the top, GZ on the bottom, yelling "help, help", why in the world would John tell GZ "to stop".

I find that confusing too. The only explanations that I've been able to come up with are 1) he was telling GZ to stop yelling for help (which makes no sense) or 2) he was referring to TM when he says he told "him" to stop. IMO, it would only make sense to tell the person beating up someone to stop.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

gxm · May 9, 2012

Elley Mae said:
I have no idea, but I am looking forward to hear what he (john) has to say. If there is a trial. jmo I think he is the most important witness.

I agree. He appears to be the only witness who actually saw the confrontation clearly and IIRC his story hasn't changed.

AngelWings444 · May 9, 2012

I'm thinking John made a huge slip, but that's JMO. I believe he told GZ to STOP because GZ had the advantage. Again, JMO.

zenreaper · May 9, 2012

AJ Noiter said:
I don't think he's being very clear. There are two possible "hims" in what he's saying.

This doesn't appear to be rocket science here, he sees a guy on top of another guy, beating the crap out of him, he yells STOP. He was OBVIOUSLY talking to the person doing the beating. I SAY "obvious" becuase to extend the phrase to "Stop getting the crap beat out of you." makes NO sense.

gxm · May 9, 2012

AngelWings444 said:
I'm thinking John made a huge slip, but that's JMO. I believe he told GZ to STOP because GZ had the advantage. Again, JMO.

I disagree. The last sentence completely supports GZ's story by linking the aggressor (the person doing the beating) to the person who is deceased.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me 'Help, help,' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down. The person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," he said.

There is no mistaking or confusing who was where in this witness account. No "red t-shirt" or "I think" or "it sounded like" or "shadows and figures." This witness states clearly that GZ was being beaten and yelling "help" and that TM was doing the beating and not yelling "help."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

AJ Noiter · May 9, 2012

zenreaper said:
This doesn't appear to be rocket science here, he sees a guy on top of another guy, beating the crap out of him, he yells STOP. He was OBVIOUSLY talking to the person doing the beating. I SAY "obvious" becuase to extend the phrase to "Stop getting the crap beat out of you." makes NO sense.

I agree, but I'll play along... for now. I'm sure his statement to the police will be much, much clearer.

jjenny · May 9, 2012

AJ Noiter said:
I agree, but I'll play along... for now. I'm sure his statement to the police will be much, much clearer.

Or he could have told GZ to stop screaming.

jjenny · May 9, 2012

LambChop said:
I don't believe the yelling for help was the same as the screeching sound we heard on the 911 tapes seconds before the gunshot. The boy believes the screaming came from TM. At some point they both could have been yelling for help which could indicate that both felt they were being attacked by an aggressor. But only one is screaming. SA was fortunate to have their timelines right there on the 911 tapes. jmo

The boy believes screaming came from TM? As far as I can tell this boy never even saw TM.
So how could he possibly believe screaming came from TM?

pcrum12 · May 9, 2012

gxm said:
I disagree. The last sentence completely supports GZ's story by linking the aggressor (the person doing the beating) to the person who is deceased.

"The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me 'Help, help,' and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down. The person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," he said.

There is no mistaking or confusing who was where in this witness account. No "red t-shirt" or "I think" or "it sounded like" or "shadows and figures." This witness states clearly that GZ was being beaten and yelling "help" and that TM was doing the beating and not yelling "help."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

:rocker: That's my take all along as well.

LambChop · May 9, 2012

jjenny said:
The boy believes screaming came from TM? As far as I can tell this boy never even saw TM.
So how could he possibly believe screaming came from TM?

How could he not see him if TM was on top???? Maybe he met TM on one of his visits and knew what he sounded like. I don't know just that he felt the screaming was coming from TM. jmo

LambChop · May 9, 2012

I never read where any witnesses said TM was beating GZ, other than GZ saying so. It was pretty much wrestling on the ground. Big difference between fighting, wrestling and beating someone. jmo

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