Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15

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Some thoughts as to why the police responded so quickly ... perhaps... IMO GBC didnt phone the police at all but Mrs Dickie had been calling ABC on Thursday night and had not been able to reach her. By morning when they called again and still didnt reach her ... maybe they called GBC and GBC responded that she had gone for a walk but hadnt returned... then... given the info Mrs Dickie had... she alerted the police and voiced her concerns... which was why QPS arrived immediately.
 
My thoughts on the two cars - maybe GBC had plans to take of the body all by himself but found it tough going when he got to the site. The bush is dense and by all accounts from the police and SES who searched the area it was hard to get through.

Then GBC either called for help from someone or I would even venture to say that GBC went home/elsewhere to get some stuff to make the body dumping job easier - maybe he needed ropes (or the Coles parking lot chain---kidding) or cardboard or tarp to drag her body through the track(cringing at the thought of this). Did something happen to the Captiva that he needed to bring it back and then go out with someone else. Obviously the body was meant to be hidden for some time - I reckon the rains were the real reason ABC was found so quickly.We have not heard about any forensics surrounding the site where ABC was dumped and that would be VERY interesting - drag marks footprints?

Just putting myself in his shoes - Oh SHYTE -I have this dead body - now what.....
 
Interesting post Mayday. There are just so many possibilities, however this sounds like a logical and plausible explanation to me.
 
Curiousasacat said:
I didn't recall it as being confirmed fact but the last time it was mentioned I ended up with a time out. It is interesting that the ipad version was different though.
Sorry I missed it. : (
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Hey thats, ok. I believed we had established it as fact awhile back. But obviously not everyone had seen that. It has still been speculated on since, which can be frustrating at times, but understand its sometimes hard to make head or tail of what is or isnt established.
 
Can anyone advise if BC senior (or any other POI's) would have used the roundabout to get from their home to GBC's home? The fact that police appeared to be doing test runs from there to GBC's home tells me that a car sighted at the roundabout was significant; as was the timing...I think this could give some hints as to why there were two cars.
 
Berry said:
That CM article was dated 15 May and Makara rang the same author, Alison Sandy on 22 May. See a copy of her post below.

This is officially unconfirmed and only Gerard knows the answer to this sleepover question folks:

THREAD # 11

05-22-2012, 05:23 PM
Makara

Posts: 256

"In regard to the alleged sleepover, I've just spoken to Alison Sandy, the journalist who interviewed the Dickies and also Alison's friend. Alison Sandy told me that they've invariably been told both nights and the only people who know for sure i.e. Gerard will not clarify. Alison also said that they're hoping that things will become clearer soon.

So that's it! If anyone really wants to clear this up once and for all, I guess you will have to ask Gerard. Good luck with that!"

Thanks again Makara
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Ok. Now I am confused. I have had it in my mind by what had been published and also someone closed to hairdresser who did Allisons hair that night(yes I know, hearsay), that it was the Thursday night. when it was first mentioned a sleepover in the paper, it did not actually specify whether it was Thurs or Fri night.. I read it to be Thurs by the way it was worded. BUt then I there was an article that came out that said it was Thursday night. Did this journalist write that it was Thurs, when in fact she did not know if it was Thurs or Fri?
 
Thinking said:
Apologies if this has already been updated today - but there are now only two residential sales listings and seven rentals.

Whilst the business may have been in trouble prior to Allison's death, it is hard to believe that the business would otherwise have plummeted so drastically and so quickly. Two sales listings? What a disaster.

I agree with the earlier poster who said this is just so terribly, terribly sad. I'm sure most of you agree with me when I say that I certainly don't take any ounce of pleasure in seeing this man's business go under and his life fall apart before our eyes. None of it had to happen this way, that's for sure and certain.
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I do, actually. If he can't go to jail for it, this will do. Ok, so I'm horrible.
 
mum73 said:
Can anyone advise if BC senior (or any other POI's) would have used the roundabout to get from their home to GBC's home? The fact that police appeared to be doing test runs from there to GBC's home tells me that a car sighted at the roundabout was significant; as was the timing...I think this could give some hints as to why there were two cars.
Click to expand...

There are two ways to get to GBC'S home from BC senior's home. There is a short cut - you dont have to use the roundabout at all.
 
CaseClosed said:
He is not required to give a statement, ever. He can remain silent even if this goes to trial. It looks suss, but he is in his right to remain silent, in particular since he has been under legal advice from perhaps the first day.
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I've been skipping through a lot of the last few threads trying to keep up (darned work lol) so I hope to have an understanding of where you are all at.

Re: giving a GBC giving a statement and being interviewed, even in the media. If I were him, I'd be staying mum too! Especially in light of how OW's words to the media, and his brief few words when hijacked, have been picked apart, analysed and misconstrued. A sensible move on his part (IMO), guilty or not. As has been said, anything he said would be the wrong thing. Not saying he was or wasn't involved.
 
mayday said:
Some thoughts as to why the police responded so quickly ... perhaps... IMO GBC didnt phone the police at all but Mrs Dickie had been calling ABC on Thursday night and had not been able to reach her. By morning when they called again and still didnt reach her ... maybe they called GBC and GBC responded that she had gone for a walk but hadnt returned... then... given the info Mrs Dickie had... she alerted the police and voiced her concerns... which was why QPS arrived immediately.
Click to expand...


I've often wondered that too mayday, that even if GBC did call the police, maybe Allison's parents called them also, after getting that call from him to say she'd 'gone for a walk and not returned'.

Geoff Dickie apparently said he knew something was wrong immediately her disappearance was reported. Wouldn't surprise me, many parents have a 'sixth sense' when it comes to their children. So if the police had also had a call from the parents, maybe that spurred them into taking serious quicker action? IMO

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/mobile/national/8461791/parents-of-murdered-mum-break-silence?_sp=2045&_s=7fcf8ded-b651-4196-91f0-133bcd1ed8f2
 
Curiousasacat said:
Hi and welcome Fergie.

Just wondering if you would be prepared to put your theory forward being that you are so close to this and the fact your daughter is also a sleuther? Thanks
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We agree with most of the websleuthers that this was a troubled marriage and GBC was increasingly finding himself in financial strife, seeking self satisfaction out of the marriage as he needed to be in a relationship where he could maintain a positive view of himself and the world rather than spending time with his wife who had come to know the real GBC. Facing financial and reputational ruin combined with ABC wanting to go her own way after finding out that the affair that she thought was over was still on there was an argument that night. GBC has lost it, killed her in the house in a DV situation ie not premeditated and he then called NBC to assist with the disposal of the body thus the investigation of cars through the Brookfield roundabout as 1 matching NBCs car was seen on CCTV but the number plate was not visible so they are trying to identify it by calling for witnesses and by a process of elimination.

We think the key to the murder of Allison was GBC needing to keep the marriage together because he could not afford financially to go through a separation and divorce. We think that Allison tried to save the marriage but realising just before that night that she could not save the marriage and that he was still having an affair she told him that the marriage was over and asked him to leave as she wanted a divorce. ABC and GBC may have been living apart based on the local rumors that they were and GBC was seen with TM out and about however we think if that is true then she had got to the point where she wanted a divorce and to move on with her life and her career as she was confident that she could succeed without him as she had many times before. The reports from a local hairdresser that she was in good spirits may reflect that she had made a decision to move on with her life without GBC and she was happy with that decision not that they were planning to have a romantic evening alone. We think Allison orchestrated this evening with a visit the hairdresser, a new look to look and be her best so she could say to GBC with confidence and dignity that she was moving on, I don't need you and On Your Bike Mate. Until then she may have tried to make it work and GBC may have thought that because she loved him and wanted to stay with him that she would tolerate his bad behaviors and failures or it was a marriage of mutual financial convenience until that evening.

We think a detective attended the house when Allison was reported missing and spoke to GBC and based on GBCs behavior and responses they had cause for suspicion and created a crime scene and investigation into her disappearance immediately. We agree with a previous poster that 2 cars were used to dispose of Allison's body as they knew enough not to want to mix up the DNA and they also knew the area well enough to know there was a risk of 1 vehicle getting bogged if they had to go off road and the 2nd vehicle would be available to pull the other 1 out if this did happen. GBC was probably also a wreck and needed NBC with him to manage the potential panic factor.

This is all our opinion only (OOO) however an opinion based on life and professional experience.

:jail:
 
KatiKutloose said:
"he's a very good agent and he operates a sound business model" Is that rumor or fact?
I only ask because he had to sell his Lexus and was driving a Prado (not top of the line), didn't own his own home (renting), was having an affair with one of his employees and had fibbed about his accountancy degree. He's now operating out of an office that can be hired by the day. All of that, and more, have been supported on this forum with links.

I'm one 'public' that won't have a fickle memory, very time I see the names Baden-Clay or Baden-Powell I'll always think of Allison and her 3 girls.
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That family constantly told people how they were related to the famous Scout legend. They wanted to be famous. NBC changed his name from Clay to Baden-Clay to add to the allure. There's truth to the old saying, Be Careful What You Wish For. No-one in Brisbane will forget that name now. And not for the reasons they wanted.
 
mum73 said:
Can anyone advise if BC senior (or any other POI's) would have used the roundabout to get from their home to GBC's home? The fact that police appeared to be doing test runs from there to GBC's home tells me that a car sighted at the roundabout was significant; as was the timing...I think this could give some hints as to why there were two cars.
Click to expand...


Mum73 - Yes to get to NBC house from ABC's house you would need to use the roundabout. There is a very long way around using Rafting Ground Road and Brookfield Rd but this is about twice as long as going through the rohttps://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=durness+street+kenmore&ie=UTF-8&ei=eLzFT7vEJ-atiQfenuHnAg&oi=mode_link&cd=3&ved=0CD8Q_AUoAgundabout at Kenmore Village.
 
willough said:
I dont think some people realize, that detectives work together on a broader scale. They discuss with other detectives, other murders asimilar to gain a bit more knowledge.....When they arent familiar with these kind of murders, they seek assistance from other states, to help them to ensure they dont leave any stone unturned.
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ah. I don't know if you were referring in particular to this. BUt I just read a little bit between the lines. I wonder if you are referring to detectives in this case doing so. In which case I can think of a prominent case that occured in Victoria that could be where advise or info was sought.. But just MOO, as I don't know if thats what you are alluding to.

I must have missed something as it appears you are 'timed out'.
 
UnfoldingTruth said:
Ok. Now I am confused. I have had it in my mind by what had been published and also someone closed to hairdresser who did Allisons hair that night(yes I know, hearsay), that it was the Thursday night. when it was first mentioned a sleepover in the paper, it did not actually specify whether it was Thurs or Fri night.. I read it to be Thurs by the way it was worded. BUt then I there was an article that came out that said it was Thursday night. Did this journalist write that it was Thurs, when in fact she did not know if it was Thurs or Fri?
Click to expand...

Unfolding this is I think where all the confusion came from...there were two reports...similar to what we spoke about earlier...reports get removed/words changed etc...& again both reports are by that same journo...

One report was an ipad app version...the other a standard version....

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7981594&postcount=349"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15[/ame]
 
mayday said:
There are two ways to get to GBC'S home from BC senior's home. There is a short cut - you dont have to use the roundabout at all.
Click to expand...

Hi mayday, we used to sometimes use the roundabout to get from Brookfield to a friends house near where Nigelaine live.
 
Liadan said:
My thoughts on the two cars - maybe GBC had plans to take of the body all by himself but found it tough going when he got to the site. The bush is dense and by all accounts from the police and SES who searched the area it was hard to get through.

Then GBC either called for help from someone or I would even venture to say that GBC went home/elsewhere to get some stuff to make the body dumping job easier - maybe he needed ropes (or the Coles parking lot chain---kidding) or cardboard or tarp to drag her body through the track(cringing at the thought of this). Did something happen to the Captiva that he needed to bring it back and then go out with someone else. Obviously the body was meant to be hidden for some time - I reckon the rains were the real reason ABC was found so quickly.We have not heard about any forensics surrounding the site where ABC was dumped and that would be VERY interesting - drag marks footprints?

Just putting myself in his shoes - Oh SHYTE -I have this dead body - now what.....
Click to expand...

I think there will be a whole bunch of forensics yet to come on facets of dump site, house, cars (Inc air conditioner/pollen), clothing, phone (his), office gear... Residue of who knows what, DNA... what else have I missed? Tox will only be one piece of the puzzle, methinks.
No wonder this is taking so long for QPS; thanks for hard work so far
X
 
Fergie said:
We agree with most of the websleuthers that this was a troubled marriage and GBC was increasingly finding himself in financial strife, seeking self satisfaction out of the marriage as he needed to be in a relationship where he could maintain a positive view of himself and the world rather than spending time with his wife who had come to know the real GBC. Facing financial and reputational ruin combined with ABC wanting to go her own way after finding out that the affair that she thought was over was still on there was an argument that night. GBC has lost it, killed her in the house in a DV situation ie not premeditated and he then called NBC to assist with the disposal of the body thus the investigation of cars through the Brookfield roundabout as 1 matching NBCs car was seen on CCTV but the number plate was not visible so they are trying to identify it by calling for witnesses and by a process of elimination.

We think the key to the murder of Allison was GBC needing to keep the marriage together because he could not afford financially to go through a separation and divorce. We think that Allison tried to save the marriage but realising just before that night that she could not save the marriage and that he was still having an affair she told him that the marriage was over and asked him to leave as she wanted a divorce. ABC and GBC may have been living apart based on the local rumors that they were and GBC was seen with TM out and about however we think if that is true then she had got to the point where she wanted a divorce and to move on with her life and her career as she was confident that she could succeed without him as she had many times before. The reports from a local hairdresser that she was in good spirits may reflect that she had made a decision to move on with her life without GBC and she was happy with that decision not that they were planning to have a romantic evening alone. We think Allison orchestrated this evening with a visit the hairdresser, a new look to look and be her best so she could say to GBC with confidence and dignity that she was moving on, I don't need you and On Your Bike Mate. Until then she may have tried to make it work and GBC may have thought that because she loved him and wanted to stay with him that she would tolerate his bad behaviors and failures or it was a marriage of mutual financial convenience until that evening.

We think a detective attended the house when Allison was reported missing and spoke to GBC and based on GBCs behavior and responses they had cause for suspicion and created a crime scene and investigation into her disappearance immediately. We agree with a previous poster that 2 cars were used to dispose of Allison's body as they knew enough not to want to mix up the DNA and they also knew the area well enough to know there was a risk of 1 vehicle getting bogged if they had to go off road and the 2nd vehicle would be available to pull the other 1 out if this did happen. GBC was probably also a wreck and needed NBC with him to manage the potential panic factor.

This is all our opinion only (OOO) however an opinion based on life and professional experience.

:jail:
Click to expand...

Interesting post Fergie. I know you said you were a neighbour..did you actually know the family? And therefore do you know any of it for fact? I mean the trouble marriage and the like..I know its been speculated on.
 
mayday said:
There are two ways to get to GBC'S home from BC senior's home. There is a short cut - you dont have to use the roundabout at all.
Click to expand...

If this is the case, I find it extremely odd that the roundabout was used at all. You would think that BC senior would just take the shortcut?? As I understand it, the roundabout was not the direct route to Kholo either; so considering locals would be aware of the cameras at the roundabout, you would think it would be avoided at all costs (rather than going out of their way to use it).
Would TM have used the roundabout to travel to GBC's house?
 
marlywings said:
Unfolding this is I think where all the confusion came from...there were two reports...similar to what we spoke about earlier...reports get removed/words changed etc...& again both reports are by that same journo...

One report was an ipad app version...the other a standard version....

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15
Click to expand...

Ok thanks, I just read the articles linked to there and both said that the girls were at a sleepover the night Allison vanished. So I don't know. Thats why I have taken that as fact. Too confusing. For me I think I will take it as that unless it says so differnt somewhere else. lol
 
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