Fiber evidence discussion

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BOESP

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IrishMist said:
I'll look into it, too. (I should know by now to have my sources backed up BEFORE posting! :D)

Yes, LS had his theory about the brown fibers coming from work gloves, but that doesn't mean the fibers weren't there. And, like so many other pieces of evidence in this case, doesn't directly point to either the Ram's OR an intruder. :doh:

I'll look through my bookmarks. :)

Wow, did you beat me to it, or what?? Thanks.
Oh, and I'm waving back atcha! :)
Click to expand...

Mist - I see the carpeting on the floor in the basement outside the wine cellar is brown. Wish Smit had been more descriptive with his fiber. Check the page four "Photos" listed at www.realsundancekid.com .

I'm still trying to find reference to what trousers John wore that night. I wonder what Burke wore? That's never been mentioned to my knowledge.
 
Another thing I wonder about is was there or was there not a fiber from the basement found on the bat outside the door?

I ran across something else that I find interesting, but haven't heard much discussion about. From the warrant dated 12/26, (you can find this at ACR) from the items removed from the body, it says a "piece of paper." Anyone remember hearing anything about that?
 
BOESP said:
Mist - I see the carpeting on the floor in the basement outside the wine cellar is brown. Wish Smit had been more descriptive with his fiber. Check the page four "Photos" listed at www.realsundancekid.com .

I'm still trying to find reference to what trousers John wore that night. I wonder what Burke wore? That's never been mentioned to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
It's stated somewhere in Thomas' book that John was wearing a pair of khakis on the morning of the 26th, but I forgot the page number. Knowing that he wore the black sweater Christmas night, it would seem that a pair of khakis would go quite nicely with this.


-Tea
 
BOESP said:
Mist - I see the carpeting on the floor in the basement outside the wine cellar is brown. Wish Smit had been more descriptive with his fiber. Check the page four "Photos" listed at www.realsundancekid.com .

I'm still trying to find reference to what trousers John wore that night. I wonder what Burke wore? That's never been mentioned to my knowledge.
Click to expand...

The color could have come from the carpet. You're right, it does have lots of brown in it. So now we have to wonder if the fibers were, indeed cotton or not?
 
IrishMist said:
Another thing I wonder about is was there or was there not a fiber from the basement found on the bat outside the door?

I ran across something else that I find interesting, but haven't heard much discussion about. From the warrant dated 12/26, (you can find this at ACR) from the items removed from the body, it says a "piece of paper." Anyone remember hearing anything about that?
Click to expand...

I stole this from Forums For Justice:

Baseball Bat

"Judge Carnes ruled: 35 Finally, items were left behind that defendants assert they did not own. (Defs.' Br. In Supp. Of Summ. J. [67] at 18-19.) A baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys found on the north side of the house has fibers consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet's body was found. (SMF 185;.)"

Link to (see message #4) http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/showthread.php?t=4766

I don't know a thing about the paper you mentioned, Mist.
 
icedtea4me said:
It's stated somewhere in Thomas' book that John was wearing a pair of khakis on the morning of the 26th, but I forgot the page number. Knowing that he wore the black sweater Christmas night, it would seem that a pair of khakis would go quite nicely with this.


-Tea
Click to expand...

Thanks so much, Tea. I have Thomas's book and I'll scan it later. I've about worn my eyeballs out scanning for an Internet reference to the trousers.

I wish Smit had been more exact, but "light brown" and "khaki" sound very similar to me, especially for a description coming from a male. :innocent:
 
BOESP said:
I stole this from Forums For Justice:

Baseball Bat

"Judge Carnes ruled: 35 Finally, items were left behind that defendants assert they did not own. (Defs.' Br. In Supp. Of Summ. J. [67] at 18-19.) A baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys found on the north side of the house has fibers consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet's body was found. (SMF 185;.)"

Link to (see message #4) http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/showthread.php?t=4766

I don't know a thing about the paper you mentioned, Mist.
Click to expand...

Just because the Rams say it doesn't belong to them, doesn't make it so.
 
IrishMist said:
The color could have come from the carpet. You're right, it does have lots of brown in it. So now we have to wonder if the fibers were, indeed cotton or not?
Click to expand...

It looks like indoor-outdoor, which would make it acrylic I'd imagine. However, khaki pants used to be all-cotton and with the advent of perma-press, the good brands are part polyester and part cotton (I'm sure you already know this :).
 
BOESP said:
I stole this from Forums For Justice:

Baseball Bat

"Judge Carnes ruled: 35 Finally, items were left behind that defendants assert they did not own. (Defs.' Br. In Supp. Of Summ. J. [67] at 18-19.) A baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys found on the north side of the house has fibers consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet's body was found. (SMF 185;.)"

Link to (see message #4) http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/showthread.php?t=4766

I don't know a thing about the paper you mentioned, Mist.
Click to expand...

At least that is a credible source stating there was a carpet fiber on the bat. I knew I had read it before, but couldn't remember where.

I imagine there were no prints on that bat?

Still doesn't point directly to an intruder or the Ram's. Could have been either one. In my mind, though, the bat had to have been in the house very recently, or the fiber wouldn't still be on there...

Thanks for finding that, btw. I'm not doing very well in my search for information today. :(
 
Ames said:
Just because the Rams say it doesn't belong to them, doesn't make it so.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I used Carnes because I figured her version would suit more people as to quality of Internet evidence. :cool:

I think it should go without saying that denying ownership of anything in this crime doesn't mean a hill of beans. The guilty party, whoever it may be, would lie. I think Carnes over-stepped by phrasing it as "not owned by the Ramseys." That was totally improper.
 
BOESP said:
Thanks so much, Tea. I have Thomas's book and I'll scan it later. I've about worn my eyeballs out scanning for an Internet reference to the trousers.

I wish Smit had been more exact, but "light brown" and "khaki" sound very similar to me, especially for a description coming from a male. :innocent:
Click to expand...

They sound similar to me, too. And the light-weight cotton gloves that I'm thinking of are dark brown, not light brown... I'm not sure they even come in light brown.
 
IrishMist said:
At least that is a credible source stating there was a carpet fiber on the bat. I knew I had read it before, but couldn't remember where.

I imagine there were no prints on that bat?

Still doesn't point directly to an intruder or the Ram's. Could have been either one. In my mind, though, the bat had to have been in the house very recently, or the fiber wouldn't still be on there...

Thanks for finding that, btw. I'm not doing very well in my search for information today. :(
Click to expand...

I agree. I still don't think that an intruder did it though, because he would have had to have carried that bat, along with rope and tape...and HIMSELF, through that tiny basement window.
 
IrishMist said:
At least that is a credible source stating there was a carpet fiber on the bat. I knew I had read it before, but couldn't remember where.

I imagine there were no prints on that bat?

Still doesn't point directly to an intruder or the Ram's. Could have been either one. In my mind, though, the bat had to have been in the house very recently, or the fiber wouldn't still be on there...

Thanks for finding that, btw. I'm not doing very well in my search for information today. :(
Click to expand...

You are very welcome, Mist.

Ames, you're welcome too.
 
IrishMist said:
True, true.
Click to expand...

They ARE the ones that denied owning everything from a kleenex box, down to a cigar box found in the basement..afterall. I suppose that the intruder brought that cigar box and kleenex box in along with the baseball bat.
 
Ames said:
I agree. I still don't think that an intruder did it though, because he would have had to have carried that bat, along with rope and tape...and HIMSELF, through that tiny basement window.
Click to expand...

Now, see, that's where I differ from most IDI's. IF it was IDI, I think he/she/they found all the items in the house. I don't think they brought anything with them.

I also don't think they came in through the grate/basement window, and I think he/she/they had to be known to JB.

That's about as far as I go with an IDI scenario, though. I've got a couple of big stumbling blocks with it. :)
 
IrishMist said:
They sound similar to me, too. And the light-weight cotton gloves that I'm thinking of are dark brown, not light brown... I'm not sure they even come in light brown.
Click to expand...

I've seen the dark brown ones too. I have also seen a stiffer, canvas-like glove usually sold in the gardening department or painting department. If that is what Smit meant, then those gloves are exactly what I would call khaki-colored.
 
BOESP said:
I've seen the dark brown ones too. I have also seen a stiffer, canvas-like glove usually sold in the gardening department or painting department. If that is what Smit meant, then those gloves are exactly what I would call khaki-colored.
Click to expand...

Would that be considered cotton? I'm picturing the ones you're talking about now... but am unsure of what the material would be.

I have to step outside for a few... I'll be right back.
 
BOESP said:
I've seen the dark brown ones too. I have also seen a stiffer, canvas-like glove usually sold in the gardening department or painting department. If that is what Smit meant, then those gloves are exactly what I would call khaki-colored.
Click to expand...

K. I looked up canvas, and apparently, it can be made of cotton:

NOUN: 1. A heavy, coarse, closely woven fabric of cotton, hemp, or flax, used for tents and sails.
 
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