Hand off of Gabriel at Raymond Rimkus Park

My personal opinion...it wasn't a diary per se but rather a spiral notebook in which she wrote notes, directions, instructions, addresses, phone numbers, daily to do lists and apparently a chronicle of her days on the run.
I hope it's filled with every little detail that will bring Gabriel home. I also hope that the records that Ken Gamble speaks of that have been subpoenaed as those of Tammi & Jack Smith for every single phone they have access to; home, business and every cell phone.
 
Does anyone know if there are flyers up in the park and in the area?

I don't know for sure, but they were working on that as soon as the news hit on Gabriel's FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=251236072296


That might be a good question here too? :)[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94549"]Post Fliers for Gabe - In Your Town or Online! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

ETA....sorry I meant to post the link to our flier thread here on WS, lol :blushing:
 
Of course I'm not saying anything bad about Mr. Ken Gamble. I'm sure he is only doing his job, and I'm sure he's an excellent PI. But you must keep in mind Eliz. sent law enforcement on a wild goose chase with the landfill, she skipped town after Gabe went missing, and also ran from Logan after she kidnapped the child from AZ. It seems inconsistent a woman like that would write in a journal what she did with baby when her whole motive was keep the baby away from the father. The journal seems hopeful, and I'm sure many of us rejoice in the news that we think a handoff happened, but keep in mind, those are elizabeth's entries. I'm sure the detective is doing his best to find the baby, but only IF, and it is a big IF the journal can be trusted. It will call come to light in a few short weeks what really happened. And we are all guilty of something too- of having love and concern for a child we have not even met. The truth will be revealed when Gabriel if found, but take everything with a grain of salt as Elizab. has proven to be extremely deceptive. We all pray the baby is found. The sooner the better. Of course everyone has their opinion, and it why we come on to this board- to share opinion, ideas, theories, etc.. But to me, if the journal is real, then a couple would have obviously come forward already because there is no couple willing to face felony charges and life in prison to keep a baby that has been reported kidnapped. That would have happened within the first 48 hours or few days of him being reported. And Eliz. would reveal the living baby in heartbeat, not for his welfare, but to save her own skin. She would produce a living baby immediately as I'm sure LE has threatened her with the worst cast scenario for her fate if she does not reveal where the baby is. Her keeping quiet is very disturbing, and to me indicates guilt. So the journal entry seems fishy to me... Again, Just my opinion. Let us pray the baby be found.

BBM...probably OT for this particular thread, but I have to say, I think there is GREAT reason for the couple NOT to have come forward. We don't know the exact motivations, but let's say for one example that EJ spun a tale of domestic violence and threats against her and Gabriel...then even when Gabriel was reported kidnapped in the beginning, the couple would have felt like the media did not know the whole truth behind EJ's running...and they would have continued to protect Gabriel. Now, even if they no longer believe that Logan was a threat to EJ and Gabriel's safety, if hiding him has worked this long, why not continue to do it rather than face felony charges? JMOO.
 
BBM...probably OT for this particular thread, but I have to say, I think there is GREAT reason for the couple NOT to have come forward. We don't know the exact motivations, but let's say for one example that EJ spun a tale of domestic violence and threats against her and Gabriel...then even when Gabriel was reported kidnapped in the beginning, the couple would have felt like the media did not know the whole truth behind EJ's running...and they would have continued to protect Gabriel. Now, even if they no longer believe that Logan was a threat to EJ and Gabriel's safety, if hiding him has worked this long, why not continue to do it rather than face felony charges? JMOO.


because giving Gabriel back to his family is the right thing to do
 
[/B]

because giving Gabriel back to his family is the right thing to do

Yes, it is the right thing to do, IF you haven't convinced yourself that Gabriel is better off in the situation he is in rather than with Logan. And that could very well be the case. I would like to believe that morals/ethics were absolute, and that we could all agree on them, but in reality our definitions of right and wrong are subjective, and one person's right may very well not make it onto another's list.
 
This thread is to discuss the specifics of the hand off of Gabe at the park. To discuss other details of related info, please see this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98949"]Theory: EJ gave Gabe to someone she entrusted who has him in hiding[/ame]


or this thread for a list of other related discussion topics as well as reference information:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100986"]Ken's New Info - Gabe Hidden/No Adoption - **No Discussion**[/ame]


If you're unable to find an appropriate thread to discuss the topic you wish to discuss, please feel free to begin a new thread for your topic.

Thanks!
BeanE
 
This would be a good time to recap the details of the hand off of the park, to help this thread get back on topic, and for easy reference to those details as the discussion moves forward.

Thanks!
BeanE
 
How would going through her phone numbers point to the couple, if the couple was arranged by a third party? She had no contact with them, doesn't know who they are, and maybe not even their names. She surely didn't have their numbers if she was given a place and a time to meet them, plus some "code" word, or something they would say to identify themselves as being from that 3rd party. The 3rd party was someone she trusted and was in contact with. So, I imagine LE does have their (the 3rd party's) information, just not necessarily the people they arranged to pick up Gabriel.

Also, like litlred said, she was not in a very good mental state to be remembering facts clearly. She probably would have had to write down the information or she would have forgotten it. I would be willing to bet she also wrote directions to the bus station, but that is MOO.

We don't know how "vague" she was with the description of the couple. We only know what has been released. Perhaps there is good reason not to release a full description. Maybe there is only suspicion as to whom they are, but LE needs something more concrete to go after them and a full description would scare them off and have them lawyering up? So we need a sighting, we need to still get the word out and get this thing done.

I also think it's very possible she could of had another prepaid phone that she ditched before she got on the bus. I don't think they would of left any trace of a phone record. HG could of brought her a phone as well.
 
After watching the video, that was what I was trying to say- the handoff, supposedly was deducted from reading Elizabeth's journal, (or may have been a day planner). It the PI and Logan get info from that source, it may not be a reliable source. If may have conclusions on a false premise, does that make sense. Therefore, they went from "baby is alive" to " it's going away from illegal adoption". I'm speculating, but possibly after exploring the handoff lead, they conclude it's not that. Mr. Gamble may have said prematurely the baby is alive. And then going away from illegal adoption to having the baby hidden, I feel that is unlikely too. JMO. So, my only deduction is the the fact that is worst case scenario... Well, I've said a hundred time, but let's pray the baby be found. The handoff to me looks like red herring, possibly something Eliz. wrote down to throw off investigators and Logan, similar to the way she said the baby was in the dumspter, and that turned out to be a dead end too. JMO
 
After watching the video, that was what I was trying to say- the handoff, supposedly was deducted from reading Elizabeth's journal, (or may have been a day planner). It the PI and Logan get info from that source, it may not be a reliable source. If may have conclusions on a false premise, does that make sense. Therefore, they went from "baby is alive" to " it's going away from illegal adoption". I'm speculating, but possibly after exploring the handoff lead, they conclude it's not that. Mr. Gamble may have said prematurely the baby is alive. And then going away from illegal adoption to having the baby hidden, I feel that is unlikely too. JMO. So, my only deduction is the the fact that is worst case scenario... Well, I've said a hundred time, but let's pray the baby be found. The handoff to me looks like red herring, possibly something Eliz. wrote down to throw off investigators and Logan, similar to the way she said the baby was in the dumspter, and that turned out to be a dead end too. JMO

They didn't go from "baby is alive" to "it's going away from illegal adoption". They went from "it's going away from illegal adoption" to "it's going away from illegal adoption".

I would agree that the journal is a red herring if that were the only source for the new information, however, Ken indicates several times that the new information comes from more sources, not just the journal.

See this thread for more of the facts and details:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100986"]Ken's New Info - Gabe Hidden/No Adoption - **No Discussion** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
snip

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...-Gabriel-sole/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx?p=2

McQueary says he believes Gabriel is still alive, considering he and Johnson were last seen at a park after McQueary received the threatening messages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BBM:

In this article are they speaking of Raymond Rimkus Park? The article does not state which park.

According to this comment EJ and Gabriel were seen. ...Seen as in witness?
 
That's a reporter saying his interpretation of what Logan said. I am confident that statement is incorrect.

That's what I thought because we figured out the times on a different thread with the timezone change from AZ to TX and when the text/phone call was made and it matched almost exactly with the time where she was seen sitting in the car in front of the Motel 6 for 10 to 15 min, before getting out of the car to walk over to the bus station.
 
That's a reporter saying his interpretation of what Logan said. I am confident that statement is incorrect.

I went way back and got this article from the first thread started here 1/1/10. I'm so hoping for a witness, a live witness to come forward. I'm wondering did the 3rd party, the couple or any combination know of this park in advance as secluded? Maybe HG knew of this park. Seems to me there are 3 to 4 people (maybe more) that took part of this handoff.
 
We were discussing in another thread about the HG, and how we cannot confirm or deny it was 1 person, correct?

What about the couple EJ handed Gabriel off to? We know there is "a" couple, they were sighted with EJ and HG at the hotel. Can we assume it's the same couple she was to give Gabriel to, or not since we don't have any sightings of them all together in the park by the same person that saw them at the hotel? I'm thinking it's the same couple. They came, spent some time with EJ/Gabriel, and when EJ was finally on the ledge and decided to keep running, she gave him to them in the park. I think they may in fact have been staying near that park (hotel maybe), and EJ planned to get on the bus that Sunday, so the exchange took place there, she went shopping (maybe that's her kind of therapy), and then headed over to the bus station.

IMO there is no phantom couple, because they were spotted with EJ at the hotel.

Per the case calendar
In the video with this news article, the reporter says a witness says Elizabeth was seen with a Hispanic male and a couple in the hotel parking lot on Christmas day.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsro...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

This may have occurred on either Dec 24 or Dec 25.

From MissingGabe:

- The sighting of Elizabeth with the Hispanic man and the couple in the parking lot of the hotel was on either December 24 or 25


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4882331
 
We were discussing in another thread about the HG, and how we cannot confirm or deny it was 1 person, correct?

What about the couple EJ handed Gabriel off to? We know there is "a" couple, they were sighted with EJ and HG at the hotel. Can we assume it's the same couple she was to give Gabriel to, or not since we don't have any sightings of them all together in the park by the same person that saw them at the hotel? I'm thinking it's the same couple. They came, spent some time with EJ/Gabriel, and when EJ was finally on the ledge and decided to keep running, she gave him to them in the park. I think they may in fact have been staying near that park (hotel maybe), and EJ planned to get on the bus that Sunday, so the exchange took place there, she went shopping (maybe that's her kind of therapy), and then headed over to the bus station.

IMO there is no phantom couple, because they were spotted with EJ at the hotel.

Per the case calendar

I don't think it's the same couple because the couple in the park needed a code word to identify themselves.
 
The Today Show referenced a foundation for Gabriel at the end of the clip, and the foundation has a website.

I thought this was interesting b/c it seemed like the most detailed description of the couple EJ allegedly handed Gabriel to in this park

Snipped

According to police reports and media, Elizabeth Johnson claims she gave baby Gabriel to an unknown Caucasian couple in their mid to late 30’s or early 40’s at Raymond Rimkus Park on Evers Rd. on December 27 at approximately 10:00 a.m. The male is described as husky, approximately 5’10” – 6’ and clean shaven, with dark brown or black hair. He was wearing a white polo shirt, and dark pants. The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder. She was wearing dark blue jeans and a red sweater.

http://babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html
 
Snipped

According to police reports and media, Elizabeth Johnson claims she gave baby Gabriel to an unknown Caucasian couple in their mid to late 30’s or early 40’s at Raymond Rimkus Park on Evers Rd. on December 27 at approximately 10:00 a.m. The male is described as husky, approximately 5’10” – 6’ and clean shaven, with dark brown or black hair. He was wearing a white polo shirt, and dark pants. The female is described as slender, approximately 5’6” with blonde hair that fell below the shoulder. She was wearing dark blue jeans and a red sweater.

http://babygabrielfoundation.org/story.html

I wonder if EJ was cooperative enough or provided enough information that they could put together a composite sketch of this couple? That would be helpful. But, then I wonder if the PI doesn't want something like that released to "spook" them?
 
I wonder if EJ was cooperative enough or provided enough information that they could put together a composite sketch of this couple? That would be helpful. But, then I wonder if the PI doesn't want something like that released to "spook" them?

The PI was pleading for public's help to locate this couple the last time he was on TV, I think if he had a sketch, he would want it released. But I think there is no sketch, zero help from EJ... IMOO.
 

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