AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #15

TXHOPE said:

Childrens tylenol comes in grape (purple) and cherry (red). Children's Tylenol Cold and Flu comes in Bubble Gum (pink) just like Benedryl (pink).

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But all the Tylenol I've used is more opaque (kinda chalky like Pepto Bismol), rather than clearish. JMO. ETA: I have not used the children's Cold and Flu kind though.

has anyone checked CL and the like to see if she tried to sell the ring once she got out of Tempe? A big fuss has been made about the ring and it might have been one of her last cashable assets.

(If I start to go to far afield, please slap me. I have had no sleep, and I have a tendency to get super creative when I am exhausted. I sleep deprive myself when a case slows down, just to try to get others to think too, but sometimes I get too creative. If I do that, tell me.)

NewMommy09 said:

Sorry to quote myself. But I didn't get any response on this and I'd like to know what everyone thinks. The color and texture look like a perfect match to me. This scares the crap out of me. This would most likely be even more dangerous than if she was giving him that much Tylenol. Benadryl is not recommended for infants often, and when it is, only TINY amounts. I believe I was told to give my son only .25 ml and not often, ONLY when he was projectile vomiting.

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NewMommy, I don't know how to tell fruit punch from medicine in a picture, but if anybody can, it's the FBI. Those guys are good! I would send it in.

Good find!

:blowkiss:

here, in case anyone is interested, lol, here is a song all about "haters" it has the lyrics. it is not foul or "bad" it is "rap/hiphop" I think it has an enjoyable sound though. It will give a better "understanding"
chamillionair- Good Mornin'

Edited to remove video, realized it does have a derogatory word, I do not wish too offend
If you want too look it up, use the artist title above, and pick one with lyrics

not_my_kids said:

has anyone checked CL and the like to see if she tried to sell the ring once she got out of Tempe? A big fuss has been made about the ring and it might have been one of her last cashable assets.

(If I start to go to far afield, please slap me. I have had no sleep, and I have a tendency to get super creative when I am exhausted. I sleep deprive myself when a case slows down, just to try to get others to think too, but sometimes I get too creative. If I do that, tell me.)

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Has anyone said where that ring came from? Did she have it before? It could be a form of payment.

TXHOPE said:

Not only that but wasn't it originally stated that the last know sighting of Elizabeth and the baby was in a park and that it was after the awful text/call she made to Logan? Does anyone else remember hearing that?

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I want to stick with what LE says, but if it's true, and if it was after the text/call, only 1 media outlet that I've seen has said that. It could be that Logan said that at a presser, and he or LE asked the media not to publish it because of the investigation, and that one media outlet didn't get the message and published it anyway, but I tend to think it's inaccuracy in reporting.

The media reporting on this case have not exactly been sticklers for accuracy. Makes me crazy! I wish we had the raw videos of the pressers.

BeanE said:

NewMommy, I don't know how to tell fruit punch from medicine in a picture, but if anybody can, it's the FBI. Those guys are good! I would send it in.

Good find!

:blowkiss:

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Thanks BeanE.
I just emailed that in. I don't know if they can do anything with it, but I wanted to send it in just in case.
If they ever have to take this to trial as murder, perhaps they have this medicine cup with traces of Benadryl after being left at the hotel. Just figured MAYBE they can do something with it.

NewMommy09 said:

I am by NO means disputing your theory that Elizabeth was more in control than Tammi. The only problem I have with the above, is this:
I honestly don't think that EJ told the Smith's she was taking Gabriel to see his father. I really don't think they would be okay with that, considering the lengths they were going to in order to get custody of Gabriel (i.e. CC on paternity papers etc.). I haven't decided for myself yet whether EJ led them to believe Logan was abusive to Gabriel, or if they just didn't care because they wanted him. But either way, I don't think they would be so non-chalant about EJ just picking him up to take him to see Logan. I believe this is another one of their lies, and there must be a reason for them to lie about it. JMO, of course. That brings me to another possible lie. The Smith's have stated that Elizabeth had never been to their home and didn't want to know where they lived. So then how did EJ pick Gabriel up? I suppose they could have met somewhere. But on the one hand, if they met somewhere, why hasn't that been elaborated on? And on the other hand, I (again) don't see them being so willing to hand Gabriel over to go see Logan, that they will pack him up and drive him somewhere for EJ to pick up. JMO.

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I doubt they were nonchalant about it too. I just think Eliz was determined. She had made up her mind to boogie, and she sticks to what she decides per her grandfather. If I'm not mistaken (and I still haven't had my second cup yet!), he said that she's stubborn and nobody can change her mind.

It could well be a lie. I did think for a long while there that they were lying. And I reserve the right to change my mind back again

Tammi said on NG that Eliz picked up Gabe at a church.

On a side note, I'm working on collecting everything Logan and Eliz's grandfather have said about Eliz's personality, so we have a sort of profile for her all in one place we can refer to.

BeanE said:

I want to stick with what LE says, but if it's true, and if it was after the text/call, only 1 media outlet that I've seen has said that. It could be that Logan said that at a presser, and he or LE asked the media not to publish it because of the investigation, and that one media outlet didn't get the message and published it anyway, but I tend to think it's inaccuracy in reporting.

The media reporting on this case have not exactly been sticklers for accuracy. Makes me crazy! I wish we had the raw videos of the pressers.

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That information and TS's original story of how she heard the baby in the backgroud after the text/call would mean he was alive which is huge but unfortunately we can't trust the media and we all know we can't trust what TS says and I don't remember ever hearing it from LE...ugh...

NewMommy09 said:

Thanks BeanE.
I just emailed that in. I don't know if they can do anything with it, but I wanted to send it in just in case.
If they ever have to take this to trial as murder, perhaps they have this medicine cup with traces of Benadryl after being left at the hotel. Just figured MAYBE they can do something with it.

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Yay for you! LE said they want tips even if people think it's not important or that they already have it, so good for you!!!

:blowkiss:

BeanE said:

I doubt they were nonchalant about it too. I just think Eliz was determined. She had made up her mind to boogie, and she sticks to what she decides per her grandfather. If I'm not mistaken (and I still haven't had my second cup yet!), he said that she's stubborn and nobody can change her mind.

It could well be a lie. I did think for a long while there that they were lying. And I reserve the right to change my mind back again

Tammi said on NG that Eliz picked up Gabe at a church.

On a side note, I'm working on collecting everything Logan and Eliz's grandfather have said about Eliz's personality, so we have a sort of profile for her all in one place we can refer to.

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BBM, thank you, I had not heard/seen that statement before.
I also change my mind back and forth frequently, sometimes multiple times in a day. There is so much information out there, and much of it contradicts other information. It's hard not to be swayed back and forth when you take each bit into consideration.

not_my_kids said:

http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/research/newnetARC.html
Can't access the article, but the snippet is interesting.

As state inspectors reviewed files Tuesday during a surprise office visit, the operators of AAA-Alamo Adoption Agency denied buying babies or targeting pregnant women in Mexico.

ETA: This is or was a San Antonio based operation.

ETAA: It seems the agency closed, but the snippet I linked gives the names of the people that were in charge of it...I think it possible that EJ could have found them. Do baby brokers stop just because they lose their agency, or do they go "underground"?

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Very interesting article -- I read the full text (about a 1000 interesting words) --but here are a few snippets with names removed to protect the shiesty

According to state and federal law enforcement officials, an employee of AAA-Alamo ran a baby-buying scheme in Laredo that included smuggling pregnant Mexican women across the Rio Grande on inner tubes and paying them after they relinquished their parental rights.

Adoption Agency's statement:

"Our target audience is someone in a (U.S.) border state wanting to give up a baby for adoption. How they get here, and what their immigration status is, is not our business," JG said.

Mexican Consul's statement:

"The women I spoke to said they responded to the ad in Mexico, and were given instructions by phone on how to get to Nuevo Laredo, and told that all their travel expenses would be paid," he said. "Once they got to the bus terminal in Nuevo Laredo, they were told to call another number, and someone showed up and took care of them," he said.

Maybe if there is some connection between EJ and these people, that is why she took the bus she took? IDK

The article is from 2002, btw -- and at that time the Fed charges were put on hold to await the outcome of the state charges
Now I am going to take your suggestion and try to find out the charges and status of this case --

NewMommy09 said:

But all the Tylenol I've used is more opaque (kinda chalky like Pepto Bismol), rather than clearish. JMO. ETA: I have not used the children's Cold and Flu kind though.

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Oh no you're right...the Tylenol infant drops are clearish/chalky. That's not infant Tylenol in his cup. It looks like Children's Tylenol.

TXHOPE said:

That information and TS's original story of how she heard the baby in the backgroud after the text/call would mean he was alive which is huge but unfortunately we can't trust the media and we all know we can't trust what TS says and I don't remember ever hearing it from LE...ugh...

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Very unfortunate that we can't get the truth out of Tammi. I could wring her neck for saying that she heard Gabe babbling, and then turned around and said Eliz wouldn't talk to her on the phone at all that day. The woman is despicable. And what makes it worse is that big fake smile with everything she says. To disarm people - "see how sweet and smiley I am? You know I'm too sweet to lie."

NewMommy09 said:

BBM, thank you, I had not heard/seen that statement before.
I also change my mind back and forth frequently, sometimes multiple times in a day. There is so much information out there, and much of it contradicts other information. It's hard not to be swayed back and forth when you take each bit into consideration.

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I agree. That's why it's so great that we have people looking at different angles of this case, different ways things might have happened, so we cover all the bases. It's a real toss up right now as to which angle is the most likely.

Don't know if this has already been noticed/discussed this morning, but thought it was interesting ....

The Boston friend of EJ's on her FB page (up til last night anyway) that was listed right below TPS's comment has now completely taken ALL her previous postings off EJ's page. They were there last night, but now they're all gone .... every one of them. She originally had her title posted as something about her boyfriend, then changed it to say, "Stop adding me, people!" just in the last several days.

I'm wondering if people starting trying to become her friend to talk to her and bombarded her with "What do you know about EJ" messages. While EJ was in San Antonio (on the bus most likely on the 28th), the friend posted a comment on EJ's page, "So tell me about ur new life ..." or something to that degree. EJ boarded the bus to SA on the 27th and I'm assuming she would've still been on it at the 28th on her way to FL. The friend had obviously been told something about EJ supposedly having some kind of "new life" before that date in order to have made a comment like that. My question, (and everyone else's it seems) is, "What exactly did EJ tell her and when?"

Interesting now that V's comments are completely gone. Wonder if LE had her take them down or she just made herself invisible because so many people she didn't know were bothering her all of a sudden? Hope LE or the FBI has talked with her at least.

Prof - How did you get to the actual article? All I could get was the snippet.
TIA.

TXHOPE said:

Oh no you're right...the Tylenol infant drops are clearish/chalky. That's not infant Tylenol in his cup. It looks like Children's Tylenol.

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I wonder if EJ (not being much of a caregiver) had never medicated Gabe before. Tammi - or someone else - told her to give him Tylenol for teething. So she bought Children's Tylenol, thinking it was what she was supposed to give him. Accidental overdose?

Just a random thought. MOO.

NewMommy09 said:

I am by NO means disputing your theory that Elizabeth was more in control than Tammi. The only problem I have with the above, is this:
I honestly don't think that EJ told the Smith's she was taking Gabriel to see his father. I really don't think they would be okay with that, considering the lengths they were going to in order to get custody of Gabriel (i.e. CC on paternity papers etc.). I haven't decided for myself yet whether EJ led them to believe Logan was abusive to Gabriel, or if they just didn't care because they wanted him. But either way, I don't think they would be so non-chalant about EJ just picking him up to take him to see Logan. I believe this is another one of their lies, and there must be a reason for them to lie about it. JMO, of course. That brings me to another possible lie. The Smith's have stated that Elizabeth had never been to their home and didn't want to know where they lived. So then how did EJ pick Gabriel up? I suppose they could have met somewhere. But on the one hand, if they met somewhere, why hasn't that been elaborated on? And on the other hand, I (again) don't see them being so willing to hand Gabriel over to go see Logan, that they will pack him up and drive him somewhere for EJ to pick up. JMO.

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Well, it has been elaborated on, but by TS lol
According to TS EJ asked them to meet her at a church with Gabriel, and that is how the whole GPS discussion came up --

AFAIR --It came up on NG as TS was making some statement about how she's remembering things in bits and pieces and giving LE those new leads. TS had recently told LE about the GPS because she thought it was strange that it was turned on as EJ told the Smiths to meet her at the church. TS explained that hermthinking was that EJ would not have needed it if she knew where the church was.

Fuzzy logic, or more lies and obfuscation IMO as EJ could have looked up the nearest church on her GPS and called the Smiths to meet her there.
This is when I first started to think that TS gave EJ that GPS-- oh and TS is the one who stated it was a Garmin. I do not think we know the brand of GPS officially.

So, there's really isn't any way to tell what is in the cup, but the babysitter said it was the medicine.

I'm thinking that TS and EJ did have a plan, for whatever reason it involved San Antonio.

The plan was to go there and wait for LM to sign over his rights. Perhaps TS knows of someone there to help with illegal documents, (maybe that's why she needed a sitter...she couldn't bring a baby to meet this person(s), it would raise too many red flags...or she had to pay the man with a "favor"). That didn't happen, obviously, so EJ, being desperate, has to do some looking online.

How in the world are you going to do that much research with a baby? Make him sleepy. Drug him up with Tylenol and Benadryl while you do your research at the libreary (can't do that with a fussing baby) and lobby, making calls on a prepaid phone you got.

You find someone (either on your own or with the help of TS, or even someone you considered before TS), but they can't get there right away, they may not live there. The plan is set, but you have to cool your heels for a few days. You are going to meet the couple at a park. So you snap a few more pictures before he's gone from you forever.

The new couple, excited to have a baby at any cost (jailtime included), bought their own carseat (or it is one they had already from their deceased/failed previous adoption). This couple could be an older couple with no family and a home with distance from neighbors, so it won't be hard to hide him for a while.

EJ knows how to make it without money, finding shelters and such, from her life in foster, so she doesn't have to worry about that. She agrees to a small amount of cash, to get her to her destination. She was desperate, so it's not like she could demand a ton of cash. So the couple gives her a few hundered. EJ leaves her car and is hoping, her previous life, behind as she hops a bus for sunny Florida. From there, she can go anywhere she wants, or just hide out there and get a job.

She's had a lot of people in her let her down, and the feeling of relief comes over her as she arrives at the shelter in FL, so she logs in, and updates her status for all those haters and describes her mood as adventerous, because that may actually be truthful.

Just thinking out loud.