AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 8

katydid23 · Apr 30, 2012

liz b. said:
bwilson,
Welcome, and thanks for posting this. It is interesting that all but one DUI of the uncle's drug and alcohol charges were dropped.

Was he some kind of informant ? Or did he know and tell LE something useful ?

Very interesting development... MOO

If he was an informant,

that would open a whole world of possible scenarios,imo. :what:

dsntslp · Apr 30, 2012

Douglas is Cochise County, for those who don't know.

Yep, I'd say the person has a drinking problem if they blow .20's multiple times.

bwilson · Apr 30, 2012

thefragile7393 said:
The family is from Douglas originally and some relatives still live there....so it makes sense that the charges would be in Douglas. Not sure if it has anything to do with the case but it is interesting. Douglas and AP are rather big drug crossing areas. Some here may remember an amazingly large tunnel found in the early 90's that went right under the border for some miles. There have been quite a few more since then.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

I was thinking about a possible connections to drug trafficking when I saw those charges in Douglas - looks like he got pulled over with drugs/alcohol in the car. I didn't realize they had family there, which is really the only reason one would want to travel there from Tucson besides to cross the border in to Mexico. Still, many people who live in Douglas, AZ have close connections with the other side.

bwilson · Apr 30, 2012

Thanks for the welcome! You guys have provided more insight than the local news

butterfly1978 · Apr 30, 2012

If someone came in my home in the middle of the night and took one of my kids while I slept and me or no one else heard anything there is NO WAY I would go back to that house with my other two kids. As far as the parents speaking to the media, look how everyone is ripping apart thier first presser... some are saying I think the dad did it he makes my hinky meter go off..or the mom don't look like shes cried... If I were them I wouldn't do another presser or interview either, to many people picking everything from thier tone to thier demenor apart and they want the focus to remain on Isa, I wouldn't do it either

Crosby87 · Apr 30, 2012

Lava said:
Does anyone else seem to think that there is some sort of disconnect b/w LE and the parents? LE wants them to talk to the media, but they don't. LE doesn't know why they aren't back in the home (Have they asked, have they not received an explanation, or did they receive an explanation that doesn't make sense to them?), LE has still yet to clear the family. Going on the assumption that the family is innocent (which is how I like to see things until I hear otherwise), these things really bother me.

1. Parents refusal to speak out more: Yes, we would most likely criticize everything they say, do, don't say, don't do, wear, all the way down to how many tears they cry. It is a HUGE burden to take on. However, it keeps the media interested - especially the national media. I remember when Elizabeth Smart was missing the family held daily press conferences, and I watched them every day on the national media. I've been watching CNN for hours today and haven't heard a word about Isabel. And now that the police are doing 1 presser a day it will get even worse. I see the 1 presser a day lasting a week - if that long - before there will be none. And then it is only a matter of time before Isabel is forgotten by all but the dedicated.

2. LE not clearing the family - If the family is innocent this is a HUGE disservice to them. I know I have said this previously, but the longer LE goes without doing this the more people will not be worried that there is a pervert out there kidnapping girls from their rooms, the more people will just assume it was the parents and think their kids are safe (at least this time).

I am from Florida, so obviously I am used to information being out there almost immediately. But I can't help but think that this is not the way to handle a true kidnapping.

Regarding an interview with the parents; would Isabel's parents be able answer questions LE won't answer? They'd likely only repeat "we can't comment on that, we can't answer that" through most of it.

By now I hope someone's noticed a difference in the kidnapper(s) routine and calls it in.

If the kidnappers escaped in a car or van and stopped at a truck stop, maybe they took Isabel inside to eat and use the bathroom so I hope Isabel's picture has been posted in all the truck stops along the major highways.

butterfly1978 · Apr 30, 2012

cluciano63 said:
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/17926343/no-new-information-on-possible-yuma-missing-child

Possible kidnapping in Yuma, AZ

It says that a child may have been forced in a car on FRIDAY, but there have been no reports of a child missing. So I guess it was nothing.

dsntslp · Apr 30, 2012

The parents not going home does not concern me at all. I figure the boys are absolutely terrified to sleep there now

cluciano63 · Apr 30, 2012

butterfly1978 said:
It says that a child may have been forced in a car on FRIDAY, but there have been no reports of a child missing. So I guess it was nothing.

I know but the date of the story was today....updated. So who knows...

gitana1 · Apr 30, 2012

Oneoffourhills said:
Hello!
I have also been a lurker for years. Isabels case being very close to my home has inspired me to post.

My thought on the video release yesterday, was that while LE did want to speak to the 5 walkers, the intention of the legnth of the video, was to let the 6th person know that he was recorded. Perhaps to effect some sort of change in his daily pattern-rattle his cage-so that he would begin desplaying clues for others to become suspect of.

Secondly, and the thought that I cannot get out of my mind are the 3 dogs becoming loose exactly 1 week, prior to the abduction. I certainly could have missed major discussion on this point, and if so please direct me. But I feel like this could have been a failed attempt-releasing the dogs, to acquire access to Isa. Or, releasing the dogs to LOOK like an intruder, and something interrupted the actual abduction on this day. Are there any previous comments on the dogs being out the prior Friday?

According to AZ public access, there are no additional reports\charges on dogs loose ever before. I know I had a dog that is a runner, and one that is not. The "runner" was a repeat offender. Seems coincidental that the only time the dogs have ever gotten loose was 1 week prior, same day.

:fireworks::welcome::fireworks:

Interesting post!

cluciano63 said:
Capable, yes, but not sure how far I would send another child out of sight if one was already missing...JMO

I agree but I'm sure they were sending everyone everywhere quickly, to try to find her. They may not have assumed she was kidnapped. If they did, why would they be sending their son to the store to look for her to begin with? That might have been the boy's own assumption.

txjustice said:
This is only my second post! But I think this is an excellent idea. I think probably this or maybe the parents know or suspect something but are afraid to say. Maybe they have their suspicions about someone they know. I do think there are oddities in the way the parents have acted, but not sure if I see guilt.

Also, I found it odd in a video posted a while back where the one of the brothers says "she was just a perfect little girl playing at the park". This seems a strange thing for a boy to say about his little sister...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tu...ce-videos-hold/story?id=16210060#.T53VVbPY_NU

here's the link to the video.

As others have stated, that was not her brother. But, I wanted to add that in context, the statement may not be that odd. He seemed to be thinking back if there were ay signs of something wrong, or something about to go wrong. I interpreted his response to be that she seemed fine, perfect, nothing was abnormal.

~n/t~ said:
Dear lord. It's only been a week. What?

Yeah, that makes zero sense. That statement also makes me lose a bit of faith in this LE department.

passionflower said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/isabel-celis-man-captured-surveillance-video-forward/story?id=16238151
so is this the man behind the dumpster thing???

Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but no. This is one of the five who were walking by him.

passionflower said:
the sleeping arrangements are hinky to me..........Isabel liked to sleep with her brothers and THAT night she went to bed alone.
How did parents do that?
Did she fuss?
Did she fall asleep on the way home?

I really wish we could have a post posted at the beginning of each new thread that cites what is rumor and what is fact or what has been legitimately reported by LE or a member of the family. It's too easy for assumptions to be made based on what we hear that may not be verified. No criticism of you, dear passionflower, implied at all!

marazul said:
I understand the earlier couple of posts speculating about Sergio. I feel strange typing this, but I want to put it out there. Sometimes, in the Latino community, well-educated men have a way of coming off as slightly effiminate, to a point where others might say they "seem homosexual" or something. I am not saying anything negative about homosexual men, I definately don't think it has anything to do with this case, but in regards to the couple of posts that alluded to it, it is just something I have noticed, and more with South Americans and Mexicans than with Cubans or PRs. It is almost like a cultural thing, no idea why, but I have seen it many times. Sorry if that offended anyone at all.

I totally get what you are saying and have observed the same phenomena myself. I also noted that affect in the case of Sergio. I do think it is a cultural thing.

thefragile7393 said:
I can think of many reasons. In many Spanish fams stuff is kept close and many are private and reserved when tragedy happens. Family problems are kept close and drama isn't aired publicly. Some families consider grief a private thing. Not all fams are like this but it is something I've noticed in many fams as I was growing up.

This was many years ago but when the kidnappings of Esther Galaz (who was later found murdered) and Karen Grajeda happened, those fams weren't plastered all over the news either. They were quiet and reserved and very little press was done on them. Grajeda's mom, IIRC at the time, spoke very little English as well and appeared only a few times in public. Neither family has spoken in years to any media.
I have no links for backup, these are just my recollections, so of course please take them with a grain of salt. If you google their names you will see what I mean about very little being done in the public eye from these fams. The consequence has been that they are not well-known outside of AZ, and even inside AZ many do not remember them.

Perhaps they are feeling guilty. Maybe they feel like they should have checked on her again or heard something, anything. Maybe they did hear something but ignored it because they figured it was just night time noises or street traffic or what have you. Dealing with those feelings and Going through all the stages of grief right in the public eye isn't something many (not all) Spanish fams are going to want to do. Unless you come from that culture or lived around it for a long time you can't understand. I don't speak for this family but I am trying to explain culture-wise why they may be reacting this way.

Given time they may talk to the public. I don't expect a lot from what seems to be a rather private family right now. Leave them to their grief and let them deal in their own way, not anyone else's. If there is something up with the family then hopefully LE will sniff that out. It is very possible that they have been informed of the stats for what happens to a child after an abduction...maybe they have no hope and are too depressed themselves. I don't know. There is no one textbook way of reacting to every parent's worst nightmare, since we are all different backgrounds and cultures who deal with tragedy in diff ways.

Excellent post and bingo. Have you guys visited the Find Isabel FB much? I go every day, a couple times a day and it is amazing the amount of things that are being done to try to find Isabel. Many of the posters are family of Isabel as can be seen by connecting the FB dots.

I think this family is very active, as active as they can be, and retreating into a community of family and friends to try to find their baby.

Pensfan said:
Not a LE quote, but quoting LE:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/332590/20120424/isabel-mercedes-celis-arizona-missing-girl.htm

This one states that two dogs 'hit":
The search for Celis intensified after two FBI search dogs hit upon something in the Celis family home overnight. Villasenor noted that there was a cadavaer dog and a scent dog used in the search.
"We have information we obtained from the dogs that has necessitated more follow-up investigation," Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villasenor said today.
Police evacuated the Celis family from their home today following the dog search, which involved one cadaver dog and one scent-following dog, Villasenor said. They are treating the house as a crime scene.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-tucson-girl-isabel-celis-nearby-homes-searched/story?id=16194621

"Hit" seems to be the reporter's interpretation. It certainly is NOT what LE stated. They stated the dogs gave info. That could be inaction as well as action (hits).

Crosby87 · Apr 30, 2012

katydid23 said:
If someone climbed in the window in the dark of night and took my 6 yr old girl, I would not be afraid for my older sons to run around the next morning to look for her. I really would think it was someone who wanted a little girl, and would not be afraid my sons would be next, imo

I think the family would benefit if their house had a security system installed in it before they returned home. MO

Dr. Know? · Apr 30, 2012

bwilson said:
Thanks for the welcome! You guys have provided more insight than the local news

And that's how I realized this is where you go to get the most updating. (2008). Go WS. I've read them all, hands down the most information & fast. Thank you local Tucson for Isa who we want found. I am so proud there's so many helping.

katydid23 · Apr 30, 2012

Bluesky#1 said:
I think the family would benefit if their house had a security system installed in it before they returned home. MO

Oh, I agree. My post was a reply to some one saying it was odd that the boys were allowed to run around the next morning looking for Isabel.

But I agree about the fear of going back and sleeping in the home. :what:

Kimster · Apr 30, 2012

nanwv said:
Apologies for the post, new at this, better at lurking.

You're fine. Even I make mistakes sometimes. Only I have to catch them myself cuz no one will tell me. They're all afraid of my ray gun. :dunno:

Keep on posting! :hug:

Mjskit · Apr 30, 2012

~n/t~ said:
Who would challenge them? Heck we would have a 5 hour series on all the misinformation released on shows like Nancy Grace.

Check this out from her facebook when talking about the neighbour:

She even says the girl seemed comfortable enough to go with them.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/NancyGraceHLN

:what:

BBM She says that, however, she did NOT see anything. She only heard dogs a male voices. Had she looked out the window and seen Isabel going willingly that would be different.

gitana1 · Apr 30, 2012

SmoothOperator said:
Below is the statements from todays presser that were mentioned about the elusive mystery man on the corner lot that the 5 witnesses walked past around 1:30am the morning of the abduction.. IMO we learned some things for certain in they're admitting there is a 6th person( as I know some were of the mind set that it was just shadows&lights).. That LE does NOT know who the 6th individual is.. And replied yes to a reporter asking does LE "want to know" who the 6th individual is.. Along with his stating that it is the 6th individual that is part of the entire reason they are anxious to speak with the 5 people walking past him..

Here's my portion of notes from the presser specifically regarding the "6th individual" seen on the video..

Notes from presser 4/29-
-The 6th individual is an additional and separate issue.
That's part of the reason we wanted to speak to these 5 individuals..

-Do u know who that 6th unidentified person is?(reporter asks)
No we do not(LE answers)

- Do u want to know who that person is?(reporter asks)
(LE answers)Yes, that's another reason we wanted to talk to these 5 individuals to see did they come in contact with this person or any other person for that matter.. I do not want to get too much into who this mysterious person is.. There are a lot of people who are walking in this area, especially at that specific time with the particular bars right around there..some park a distance away to avoid us(as in LE)

___________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

BBM. Wow. Interesting new info.

marfda said:
I'm a new member and in Tucson. The local news is saying police made a break in the case. New developments tonight; "News at 10." It may be a play for viewers. It's is 9:30 here. But, perhaps there was progress today! I pray so.

I am fascinated by the forums here. So much intelligence here! Thanks for letting me be a part!

:fireworks2::welcome4::fireworks2:

nanwv said:
Thanks KC-lived in Tucson for 20 years, this is close to my heart, not alot of people in my real world to bounce these thoughts off of. Because of familiarity to the city and area, my gut has been not a stranger. No facts to back that up. Happy to get it out of my head tho

:fireworks2::welcome4::fireworks2:

twall said:
Thanks for the local vibe and welcome to WS!
Douglas is also where Hector Rodriquez is from. The Uncle seems to be an irresponsible drunk. :moo: He also has charges in Tucson.

Missing girl's family and neighbors speak out
04/21/2012 06:47 PM

Isabel's grandfather from her mother's side, Hector Rodriguez, said he's praying for the family to receive good news soon.
It's been an agonizing day for the family as they wait to hear about what happened with their loved one.
Rodriguez was glued to his binoculars trying to see what was going on at the scene.
He lives in Douglas and made the trip to Tucson as soon as his daughter called him with news that little Isabel went missing.
"Why does this have to happen? It's something I just can't believe. I feel like I'm dreaming. I really do hope I'm dreaming because this is such a horrible thing. We feel so helpless," said Rodriguez.

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

He also apparently has charges from Florida, IIRC.

katydid23 · Apr 30, 2012

I have been TRYING to come off my suspicions towards the uncle since day one. I want to move away from him, but I keep getting more and more info that makes me more and more suspicious.

I don't think that 6th man in the parking lot is nearly as suspicious, imo, as what we now know about Uncle J. JMO

I have got to wonder if he left his old life, and came to stay with family to start fresh. And perhaps he left a lot of very angry people in his wake...

cluciano63 · Apr 30, 2012

katydid23 said:
I have been TRYING to come off my suspicions towards the uncle since day one. I want to move away from him, but I keep getting more and more info that makes me more and more suspicious.

I don't think that 6th man in the parking lot is nearly as suspicious, imo, as what we now know about Uncle J. JMO

I have got to wonder if he left his old life, and came to stay with family to start fresh. And perhaps he left a lot of very angry people in his wake...

Has MSM printed his name?

katydid23 · Apr 30, 2012

cluciano63 said:
Has MSM printed his name?

I think so. But I am not accusing him of doing anything to his niece. I am just thinking that people wanted revenge upon him, and this might be how they got the revenge.

cluciano63 · Apr 30, 2012

katydid23 said:
I think so. But I am not accusing him of doing anything to his niece. I am just thinking that people wanted revenge upon him, and this might be how they got the revenge.

I found it...he has been named as the person who gave some quotes to media.

AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 8

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