IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

Gabby66 said:

I've read rumors that LS tended to wear out her welcome. If that's true, it may explain why she was at MB's for an hour even though he wanted to write his paper.

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snipped and bolded by me...

woa.. is there a link to information that lauren was at cr and mb's for an hour??

I haven't seen ANY information about what length of time lauren was at their apt. tia.

Pedrosmom said:

LE has discounted this witness all along and therefore no need for her to verify or make an ID of AB. This could be the kiss of death for LE. They may have what they want on the video as to person/s involved but I believe they're still searching for the mode/method of LS's removal from the area. This could include others involvement, including AB. If she met her demise in the gravel lot, how did she leave the gravel lot? shortsighted IMO. Could it be LE shutting her up?

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LE says things like they discount this 3:38 witness but the reason they gave also doesn't make sense. And I agree, even if they do have video and put more pieces together based on that, the defense can then come in with this 3:38 witness and raise reasonable doubt. If you want to prosecute you also have to clear up these loose ends. The Caylee Anthony case is really a classic example of this. A prosecution can't just come up with a theory, they need to pretend they are the defense and try to rip their own theory apart.

Jupiter812 said:

Re: The 3:38 sighting. Assuming the carrier is AB, which is a fair assumption, and given that LE said they saw the carrier on video, then it's likely that AB is on the 2:48 or 2:51 video and/or earlier such as the Smallwood altercation.

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I just reread my own message based on Pedrosmom question and I see why you'd question part it. LE did not in fact come right out and say they saw the same guy the witness did. But when they go on to say they have LS on video with a known guy, who else could they be referring to? I think this is when Qualters stepped in it and had to start back peddling. Things got muddled.

Pedrosmom said:

Unless you have the body concealed in a suitcase and you're driving a car.

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Ok driving in a car with a body in a suitcase from 5 north college to Smallwood... why was this task not completed ? I'm not sure I understand.

Forgive me if anyone else has already said this - I haven't had time to read the posts from the last few pages, but I recall someone saying they saw Mr. Spierer walking with a few others at 8th & Washington yesterday. I remembered an article saying that Olympus Properties gave the Spierers a furnished apartment downtown to live in while they're in Bloomington. Here is the article:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/23/news.qp-9383623.sto

I know that I read somewhere (though it's not in that article) that they are staying in the Rogers Building right near the corner of 6th & Washington. I can't find the article where I read that at the moment, but I remember when I read it, it really stuck out in my mind because I almost leased an apartment in that very same building once.

I just wanted to point this out so that we don't read too much into him walking at 8th & Washington... it could've been that they were just walking up the street to visit a restaurant or just out walking and talking to get out of the apartment, not necessarily searching for anything in that area.

jadejazzkayla said:

snipped and bolded by me...

woa.. is there a link to information that lauren was at cr and mb's for an hour??

I haven't seen ANY information about what length of time lauren was at their apt. tia.

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I'm sorry but I do not have a link. Hopefully others with better memories than I can point you in the right direction. Of course it's heresay b/c we don't know any facts of time aside from what was proven on video. I believe this above information came from HT's statements of the approximate time LS left CR's and went to JR's.

bunnyesq. said:

They didn't really fail to acknowledge the exchange, they said that the time was not in line with their timeline, and gave a very ambiguous answer when asked about it.

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These were the words I was looking for a few moments ago... thanks bunnyesq.

So this is probably the most indicative statement of LE knowing that something happened in that gravel lot. If LE knew for example, that LS was forced into a vehicle at 2:51 to 3:00 They would have a problem with her being carried down N. College at 3:38. What other reasons would interfere with "their timeline" ? Seems to indicate they know with some certainty that "something" happened to her, but not necessarily the "who" of it. Why all the fuss about the white pick up earlier if they knew who and saw the vehicle on the cam? The only other thing I can think of is that they have LS on another video at 3:38am or even more solid evidence that she was with someone else at 3:38. If that means they are believing CR/MB/JR over the 3:38 witness one would have to seriously wonder why?

I still can't help thinking that the witness statements re: 3:38AM match what LE saw at another time and place on video. Their response to the questions about this witness is so unclear, yet also comes across to me, anyway, that LE is not dismissing what the witness said as much as the time and maybe the place. And perhaps they do not believe it is possible the exact same incident took place twice within an hour, i.e. that the witness saw a male carrying Lauren, when in fact this same thing happened almost an hour earlier in the same way she described.

I truly hope LE has more tying Lauren's disappearance to this group than we know about, since it does not appear that the focus of the parents, anyway, has ever changed. This part is so similar to Kyron's case, IMO, where the parents started speaking out against TH pretty early on, seemingly led by LE, giving the appearance, at least ,that they were getting their info from LE. (and the results of that case, to date, are, IMO, terrifyingly nil.)

Jupiter812 said:

I just reread my own message based on Pedrosmom question and I see why you'd question part it. LE did not in fact come right out and say they saw the same guy the witness did. But when they go on to say they have LS on video with a known guy, who else could they be referring to? I think this is when Qualters stepped in it and had to start back peddling. Things got muddled.

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Well the obvious person would be CR in the video. Did they ever imply or say that it was a 3rd person? If it was not CR then yes i could see how LE would think they have something to go on here. But then when they say the 3:38 witness sighting does not fit with others who saw her at the same time, what others are they talking about? Again wouldn't that be the CR/MB/JR sequence? If it's the 3:38 witness against their word... I wouldn't be discounting anything.

VeryVeritas said:

Ok driving in a car with a body in a suitcase from 5 north college to Smallwood... why was this task not completed ? I'm not sure I understand.

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Because the plan wouldn't work. Too many people around, cameras, etc. I believe she was hidden in a temporary place until the next day when they were able to get her out of town amidst the hustle and bustle of other traffic/people leaving campus. This may coincide with the 3:38 sighting again, the time being off, bringing her to a temp place only to move her when things wouldn't look so suspicious. If it was AB for certain carrying her, then I cannot discount JW's involvement at all.

Okay, again, I'm a little behind on the posts, but here are a few thoughts based on some of the most recent ones I've read:

1) Airports & Parking

I don't think anyone else has brought this up yet, but I know there's been some discussion of what the out-of-town students do with their cars when they leave for the summer and/or vacation. I know from experience of driving to the Indy airport at Christmas time (during winter break) that a lot of the students from the East Coast take a limousine service to the airport and leave their cars on campus, at their apartments, etc. I'm not sure if many of them do the same thing in the summer or not.

I don't necessarily think LS is in someone's car parked in Bloomington, but I just wanted to say this to show that students DO sometimes leave their cars when they go home for extended periods of time. I guess it's a possibility she could've crawled into one of those as someone suggested, but I really doubt it. At this point though, who knows. She's still missing and needs to be found.

2) Length of time at MB/CR's apartment

I don't recall ever reading anything in MSM about the length of time she stayed at their place. This is why some have speculated that she left their place after CR was in bed (so roughly 3 a.m.-ish), went outside but instead of going to JR's, she ran into the "mystery man", hence that sighting at 3:38 a.m., then perhaps ended up back at JR's by 4:00 a.m. and that's when the 4:15 call was made (assuming you believe she actually made that call). If she didn't want to go home when mystery man said "Can I take you home", she could've had the mystery man carry her back to the 5 North Townhomes so she could continue to party.

3) Trash service in Bloomington

Someone said earlier that they don't believe there is only one trash pickup in Bloomington. Most residences have their trash collected by the City of Bloomington, which assigns every property with a "trash day", and assuming the 5 North Townhomes are on this schedule, they would be on the Tuesday-A schedule for trash pickup. This is different than what I've heard, though. I recall someone saying the 5 North trash is collected on Fridays. If that's the case, they do have a private company picking up their trash, as the previous person suggested. If this is the case, there would likely be different landfills. I have no clue where all the landfills are. I read on the City of Bloomington's website that all trash from Bloomington is taken to Pimento, IN about 55 miles away from B'ton: http://bloomington.in.gov/documents/viewDocument.php?document_id=2998

So...the trash/landfill discussion definitely raises some questions. Which landfills did they search? Is the trash from 5 North taken to the same landfill as the rest of the Bloomington waste, or a different one?

4) ZO/AB being at Smallwood

I still don't buy into them being there just because of LS. Smallwood is literally right down the street from ZO & AB's place, and it is a hot spot for partying. I'm sure they have plenty of friends who live there that they might've been hanging out with. Also, some have speculated that ZO might have been jealous because he had a crush on LS. ZO has a girlfriend, and if anyone has seen her pics on Facebook, I'm sure we can all agree that she is very attractive. I just don't see him being all hung-up on LS when he already has a gf. Just my opinion, of course.

5) Fights at the Indy 500

How do we know that CR, LS, HT and their group were hanging out with ZO/AB and their group at the Indy 500? Has anyone on this board ever been to the 500? It's MADNESS. There are hundreds of thousands of people there and sometimes its difficult just to find the friends you came to the race with because of the massive amounts of people there. Speedway capacity is somewhere around 400,000. I have never read anything that said the two groups were together at the 500. Does anyone have any credible info on this? I'm very curious where all of that info came from. I have never seen anything that links ZO/AB with the whole CR/JR/LS/HT group aside from ZO punching CR.

Whew, sorry for the long post! That's all I have for now...

cluciano63 said:

I still can't help thinking that the witness statements re: 3:38AM match what LE saw at another time and place on video. Their response to the questions about this witness is so unclear, yet also comes across to me, anyway, that LE is not dismissing what the witness said as much as the time and maybe the place. And perhaps they do not believe it is possible the exact same incident took place twice within an hour, i.e. that the witness saw a male carrying Lauren, when in fact this same thing happened almost an hour earlier in the same way she described.

I truly hope LE has more tying Lauren's disappearance to this group than we know about, since it does not appear that the focus of the parents, anyway, has ever changed. This part is so similar to Kyron's case, IMO, where the parents started speaking out against TH pretty early on, seemingly led by LE, giving the appearance, at least ,that they were getting their info from LE. (and the results of that case, to date, are, IMO, terrifyingly nil.)

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I definitely think this is a possibility, but the problem I have is the fact that the witness was getting off work at the time, and there's a giant digital clock on the corner, right above where she would have seen the exchange between LS and ?.

VeryVeritas said:

Well the obvious person would be CR in the video. Did they ever imply or say that it was a 3rd person? If it was not CR then yes i could see how LE would think they have something to go on here. But then when they say the 3:38 witness sighting does not fit with others who saw her at the same time, what others are they talking about? Again wouldn't that be the CR/MB/JR sequence? If it's the 3:38 witness against their word... I wouldn't be discounting anything.

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They never said one person. I also don't think that person is CR. I think CR and LS happened upon this person/persons on their way to CR's apt at the gravel lot. I think CR, after getting beat up once, went inside and went to bed. I discount CR.

On the other hand. I cannot discount the "waiters," that being possibly AB and someone else, caught on tape. Perhaps LE does include AB as being on video at some point and maybe it was when he threw her over his shoulder and she lost her purse/wristlet thing. But I don't think AB acted alone but am on the fence as to the witness description of time.

There were 2 people that apparently kicked the snot out of CR early that evening. One I believe was AB, the other with the lasy name beginning with O. All friends of JW. All knew LS was with CR. All knew where CR lived.

What happened in that gravel lot?

Pedrosmom said:

Because the plan wouldn't work. Too many people around, cameras, etc. I believe she was hidden in a temporary place until the next day when they were able to get her out of town amidst the hustle and bustle of other traffic/people leaving campus. This may coincide with the 3:38 sighting again, the time being off, bringing her to a temp place only to move her when things wouldn't look so suspicious. If it was AB for certain carrying her, then I cannot discount JW's involvement at all.

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I bolded part of your statement above. My question about that is why can't you discount JW's involvement? We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that JW even knows AB. They're not FB friends, don't live near each other, no photos of them together anywhere....just basically no evidence at all that they are associated. Some have posted rumors that they were in the same fraternity, but even that cannot be proven (unless someone proved it and I missed it...sorry, but I don't believe doreatha over on the PT board...she spoke in a tone of 'fact' when she was actually just speculating). I've done research on these guys and their fraternities myself, and cannot come up with one thing that points to them being in the same fraternity.

In a previous thread/post (gee, that narrows it down, huh? lol.) someone pointed out that the corner where the 3:38 witness saw the exchange go down is a very short walk from JR/CR/MB. I think it's possible she went back to those apartments with CR within the police time frame, and then went back to that corner, especially if there was an "afterbar" or something at JR's.

One more thing that I don't think has ever been mentioned - JW has a Facebook album titled "Boats and Date Party" with 162 pictures from an apparent fraternity function that took place last October. Tons of the AEPi brothers on pontoon boats (maybe on Lake Monroe, but I can't verify that), then at a big dance later that evening with their dates in semi-formal attire. LS and HT are both in the date photos. ZO and AB do not show up in ANY of these photos. Why is everyone so convinced they are all friends in the same fraternity???

I do not understand why the three guys that are the last known people to see her alive get this automatic pass.Why are they "good guys" that are somehow incapable of killing this girl.What makes them so different than any other 20 year old.Most of the time people are killed by someone they know,just like most of the time when someone dumps a body it is because they killed the person.If these three are involved that is the most likely scenario.

Someone upthread commented about concrete stairs at 5 North. JR lived on the 4th floor. Here's a pic of stairs which are carpeted. I've wondered about a fall down the stairs myself.

http://currydevelopment.com/5north/5north_gallery_12.html

phantomthought said:

I do not understand why the three guys that are the last known people to see her alive get this automatic pass.Why are they "good guys" that are somehow incapable of killing this girl.What makes them so different than any other 20 year old.Most of the time people are killed by someone they know,just like most of the time when someone dumps a body it is because they killed the person.If these three are involved that is the most likely scenario.

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I haven't given these guys an automatic pass. I feel like it is much more likely that one of those three (or a combination of them - let's not forget about JR's out-of-town guest in the mix, too) is responsible for whatever happened than JW or ZO/AB. I haven't counted any of them out yet, but I feel more strongly about JR and/or CR/MB being responsible for whatever happened to her.

I am surprised, though, that if multiple people were involved in her disappearance, no one has slipped up or cracked yet. I would've expected someone to do or say something that gave them away at this point.

Berk13 said:

I haven't given these guys an automatic pass. I feel like it is much more likely that one of those three (or a combination of them - let's not forget about JR's out-of-town guest in the mix, too) is responsible for whatever happened than JW or ZO/AB. I haven't counted any of them out yet, but I feel more strongly about JR and/or CR/MB being responsible for whatever happened to her.

I am surprised, though, that if multiple people were involved in her disappearance, no one has slipped up or cracked yet. I would've expected someone to do or say something that gave them away at this point.

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With all of the lawyers involved so early on, I am not surprised that no one has incriminated themselves, if indeed there is guilt in this group...