Penn State Sandusky Trial #12 (GUILTY-post verdict discussion)

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ThoughtFox said:
I have to say I'm really not surprised. To me it's always seemed that the "higher ups" were probably taking direction from Paterno, not the other way around.

And we sort of knew there had to be a conspiracy of some kind involving Paterno, since McQueary got a job and Jerry was still around campus involved with Second Mile and getting tickets to take boys to games with him. It always smelled like a cover-up, but with this new information it seems worse.

My only problem is that now J.J. and I don't have anything to argue about. ;) Just kidding!
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Well, I'm still not convinced that Paterno knew about 1998 (though it is clear Curley did in 2001 and that Schultz did in 1998), or that McQueary's career development had anything to do with 2001 (I think the timing is against it).

I don't move without evidence, but, unless Curley decided to lie on that one detail in private e-mails in 2001 (and there is no apparent reason for it), Paterno was involved after he reported and encouraged not reporting Sandusky to LE.

That is damning.

We have returned to Central Pennsylvania Gothic.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
Am I being stupid? :waitasec:

Because if I am interpreting today's news stories correctly, they strongly suggest that JP quashed his higher-ups' instincts to do the right thing by reporting JS's activities to the Second Mile and child welfare authorities.

How does that equate to JP doing the follow up?
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I had been mildly critical of Paterno for not checking with Curley and Spanier after the 2001 incident was reported and checking to see if there was a proper investigation; I'd often ask if he would have gotten a straight answer.

Now it turns out that Paterno did talk with Curley, after the fact, according to that e-mail. The "followup" that he did was suggesting that it not be reported to LE. :(
 
IzzyBlanche said:
Bah. (Not intended at you, WFGODOT, just jumping off from your post).

IMO the NCAA has about as much credibility as that man behind the curtain that Dorothy wasn't supposed to pay any attention to.

It only now butts in after the conviction?

Again I say bah.

(and O/T, I can't believe I just now figured out what WFGODOT refers to. And my degree is in English! :ashamed:
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the ncaa sent the letter in November, iirc.
 
BrownRice said:
My understanding of the emails was Curley had a 3 step plan in place (1. Talk to JS; 2. Report it to 2nd Mile; 3. Report it to authorities). However, after Schultz (and Curley?) spoke with Joe, they decided to do nothing. Hence, the thought would be Joe persuaded them to keep it "in house" and not go further with it.
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OK, if that's what J.J. meant, then I was being dumb. I interpreted J. J. as saying Curley, not Paterno, was the driving force behind changing the plan.
 
I think JoPa passed away at a convenient time. JMVHO.
 
ohiogirl said:
the ncaa sent the letter in November, iirc.
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That's correct, here is a report dated 11/19/11 on NCAA involvement and the letter to Penn. State. :

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ons-ncaa-launching-investigation-wake-scandal
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And on that same page, there is this link with some Paterno quotes at the time:

http://espn.go.com/college-football...s-know-how-handle-jerry-sandusky-abuse-report

"I didn't know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was," ........ Pa. "So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn't work out that way."

and

Paterno said he wished he knew how allegations against Sandusky didn't come to light until this year. "I don't know the answer to that," he said. "It's hard."

Gag! He was lying as he was dying!
 
IzzyBlanche said:
OK, if that's what J.J. meant, then I was being dumb. I interpreted J. J. as saying Curley, not Paterno, was the driving force behind changing the plan.
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Not dumb...do that all the time myself...it's easy to misunderstand on the internet when no conversation is involved....
 
Curley's and Schultz's lawyers issued a joint statement:

"For Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno, the responsible and 'humane' thing to do was, like Governor Corbett, to carefully and responsibly assess the best way to handle vague, but troubling allegations. Faced with tough situations, good people try to do their best to make the right decisions."
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The subtle inclusion of Paterno with the three stooges is interesting. It definitely seems to contradict Paterno's testimony that he simply kicked the allegation upstairs and was done with it.

Does anyone know how grand jury proceedings are conducted? Were MM, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier aware of each other's testimony?
 
BigCat said:
Curley's and Schultz's lawyers issued a joint statement:

Quote:
"For Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno, the responsible and 'humane' thing to do was, like Governor Corbett, to carefully and responsibly assess the best way to handle vague, but troubling allegations. Faced with tough situations, good people try to do their best to make the right decisions."

The subtle inclusion of Paterno with the three stooges is interesting. It definitely seems to contradict Paterno's testimony that he simply kicked the allegation upstairs and was done with it.
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I just wanted to point this out, directed at the statement, not at you BigCat.

Corbett investigated. The Three Stooges did not.

Does anyone know how grand jury proceedings are conducted? Were MM, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier aware of each other's testimony?
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Curley and Schultz had the same attorney. Paterno didn't, and I'm not sure about Spanier.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
OK, if that's what J.J. meant, then I was being dumb. I interpreted J. J. as saying Curley, not Paterno, was the driving force behind changing the plan.
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I wouldn't call Paterno the "driving force," but that e-mail indicates he advocated it to Curley. He was on board with it. :(
 
J. J. in Phila said:
I wouldn't call Paterno the "driving force," but that e-mail indicates he advocated it to Curley. He was on board with it. :(
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Just jumping off your post, J. J., to point out the rest of what this article says was on the emails:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/30/justice/penn-state-emails/index.html

In the same purported e-mail provided to CNN, Curley goes on to suggest that if Sandusky "is cooperative," Penn State "would work with him" to tell Second Mile. If not, Curley states, the university will inform both Second Mile and outside authorities............

"The only downside for us is if the message (to Sandusky) isn't 'heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," Spanier purportedly writes.

"But that can be assessed down the road. The approach you outline is humane and a reasonable way to proceed," he adds............

"This is a more humane and upfront way to handle this,' Schultz purportedly writes. But he makes clear Penn State should inform Sandusky's charity Second Mile "with or without (Sandusky's) cooperation."

As for telling child welfare authorities, he adds, "we can play it by ear."

ETA: Curley purportedly writes to Spanier, saying he wants to meet with Sandusky, tell him there's "a problem," and that "we want to assist the individual to get professional help."

So what happened that none of them, including Paterno who apparently suggested the new plan, followed up on 'assessing down the road' and 'playing it by ear' concerning reporting to outside authorities, and getting JS professional help?
 
back2back19 said:
Honestly, I don't think the NCAA will anything to Penn State, unless the Freeh report uncovers NCAA violations. I really don't think they will touch the Sandusky stuff.
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You may be right and we'll see what happens, but I think they will get involved in some type of sanctions...it's been pointed out in a couple of sports articles that the school violated ethics standards, moral standards and lost control of the football program.

At FSU down here, due to a much more simpler testing scandal, the NCAA sanctioned them by taking away 14 game wins, a bowl win and disqualifying a bunch of players. Penn State's violations are much more serious to me as they concern how the entire athletics program was run and the lack of ethical leadership when it was needed, which has affected the school negatively in many ways.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
I wouldn't call Paterno the "driving force," but that e-mail indicates he advocated it to Curley. He was on board with it. :(
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From the recent articles I've read in the last couple of days it seems Paterno was. Curley didn't "change" his mind until right after the meeting with him. Seems to me like Paterno used some powerful dissuasion with him- like how it would impact the precious football team...
I am now in agreement with those who call for taking down the statue of Paterno. He is no hero! How humane was it to let more boys be victimized while turning a blind eye? And nothing was done when Sandusky didn't change and just kept bringing more victims to the Penn State locker rooms and showers!:behindbar:behindbar:behindbar
More heads need to roll for enabling Sandusky, and the NCAA should also take severe action against Penn State.
Maybe we should have a forum on this with threads for actions against Dottie, Penn State (Curley, Spanier, Shultz), and The Second Mile. Anyone else I've left out???
 
LinasK said:
From the recent articles I've read in the last couple of days it seems Paterno was. Curley didn't "change" his mind until right after the meeting with him. Seems to me like Paterno used some powerful dissuasion with him- like how it would impact the precious football team...
I am now in agreement with those who call for taking down the statue of Paterno. He is no hero! How humane was it to let more boys be victimized while turning a blind eye? And nothing was done when Sandusky didn't change and just kept bringing more victims to the Penn State locker rooms and showers!:behindbar:behindbar:behindbar
More heads need to roll for enabling Sandusky, and the NCAA should also take severe action against Penn State.
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We don't know how powerful.

It could have been, "Can we just get Jerry some treatment?" It could have been something more forceful.
 
BigCat said:
Curley's and Schultz's lawyers issued a joint statement:



The subtle inclusion of Paterno with the three stooges is interesting. It definitely seems to contradict Paterno's testimony that he simply kicked the allegation upstairs and was done with it.

Does anyone know how grand jury proceedings are conducted? Were MM, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier aware of each other's testimony?
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they really didnt have much choice at that point. it was either, keep lying, keep lying but hedge the truth as much as possible (in light of recent events) or tell the truth.

heres an intertersting reaction to recent disclosures:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--joe-paterno-role-jerry-sandusky-coverup-grows.html

"....What remains is the question of why otherwise reasonable people would make such an ethically bankrupt and criminal decision. These are highly educated, high-functioning men. The answer may never be determined. It may help to go back to that moment.

In hindsight, the smart move would have been to have Sandusky arrested. Viewed from today, Curley, Paterno, et. al. would have been lauded for making the correct decision.

At the time, however, the story would've been about a recently retired defensive coordinator molesting kids in JoePa's locker room.

Paterno was 74 and coming off a 5-7 season. He didn't have much of a team for the foreseeable future, either. Rumblings were growing that it was time for him to retire, that the game had passed him by, that at his age he couldn't handle the responsibilities of a major college football program.

An act of child molestation in the locker room would have only fueled that. When word would have eventually leaked out that in 1998 Sandusky had been investigated for the same charge yet still maintained all-hour access to the facilities, it may have too much for Paterno to survive, let alone explain.

In the precise moment, each of the men must have feared being fired. Even Joe Paterno.
...."
 
J. J. in Phila said:
We don't know how powerful.

It could have been, "Can we just get Jerry some treatment?" It could have been something more forceful.
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True, but my gut tells me some verbal arm twisting went on, on Paterno's part... He minimized the victims the way he worded it as "sex between a man and boy", as if it was consensual.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
A damning commentary from the Patriot News:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/jerry_sandusky_scandal_at_penn.html

Is there anyone out there wondering why I call this Central Pennsylvania Gothic. :(
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Interesting information from your link:

Pennsylvania launches far fewer child sexual abuse investigations than other states: 8 per 1,000 children versus 40 per 1,000 children nationally.

The Keystone State also lags behind in determining a child to be a victim of child abuse: 1.3 per 1,000 children compared with 9.2 per 1,000 nationally, according to the Child Abuse Coalition of the state District Attorney’s Association.
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