GUILTY TX - Emma Thompson, 4, dies with STD, skull fracture, Spring, 27 June 2009

ziggy said:

What a horrible case! I'm in law school taking Evidence now and we are in the midst of this character evidence stuff and why it's inadmissible. I am the only person in the class that says they want to go into prosecution - everyone else wants to work for the defense or the ACLU. My professor is a seated judge and he's great - but as much as I "get" why these things are prejudicial, I still have a hard time accepting it in cases like this, my God!

I think things are bound to change when it comes to sexual preditors though. Things are slow to change, but we must be able to show past bad acts of a sexual nature when trying these guys.

I should take this case into those wet behind the ears kids who think they want to be defense attorneys. It would be tough to defend a guy like this.

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Ziggy, would you please? Because aside from defending him, and he is entitled to his defense, I want to know why the prosecution did not stack the charges and include first degree murder. They have a witness and it is special circumstances because of the age of the victim and the rape, I believe.

believe09 said:

Prejudicial. And I agree it is. BUT-he should have to own up to it anyway because that is what my moral compass tells me. So you can see why I am not a defendant in this trial...I have a moral compass.

All defense attornies try to keep autopsy and crime scene photos out of the trial. For the same reason. It is a standard plea. Only INCREDIBLY rarely does that happen. Because the jury has a need, for the most part, to see what the results of the crime are. The only case I can remember where they were kept out, I believe the SJC overturned the ruling. IIRC. I am a little foggy today.

I dont get the rationale behind the charge. We are all struggling regarding it, we are all struggling with Abby's charge as well. I wish the media would take an interest and explain it in words of one syllable to me.

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The law is there to protect the criminal, rather than the public, who is at risk from someone like Coe. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty, but just cause is also important. If someone does the same thing repeatedly, there needs to be a way to let the jurors know the type of person and type of crimes that have been committed by this person previously. I hope Ziggy is right, that the system will change. I am sorry your class mates want to defend criminals, rather than prosecute them. I know there are lawyers of every type needed, but I think a lot of counties, states etc. are lacking in enough good prosecuting attorneys. This is all IMHO.

believe09 said:

O/T there was no question. The gloves didnt fit because they were caked with blood and they shrunk as leather will do when saturated and then dried. He had no incentive to put them on UNLESS they did not fit.

But the lack of priors concerning Nicole-man, that was what hurt the case IMO as well as the cops whose records were tinged. Unfortunately...the statute is REASONABLE doubt, not ANY doubt.

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Has anyone here ever tried to put shoes or mittens on a toddler? Remember how OJ held his hands so stiffly. I have wondered over and over why the cases were tried together. It just would have made so much more sense to try him for one murder, learn from any mistakes and then try him on the other murder. This is also IMO only.

IWannaKnow said:

Could someone explain for my poor, feeble brain why Coe's history is not admissible in court for basically the exact same crime as his previous crimes?????????? Why is showing predilection inadmissable? If it is illegal to molest little girls, and you can prove that a person likes to molest little girls because they have in the past, isn't that an indicator of their future behavior????? WHY IS INFORMING THE JURY OF THEIR PAST BEHAVIOR PREJUDICIAL - AREN'T WE SIMPLY INFORMING THE JURY ABOUT THE CHARACTER OF THIS INDIVIDUAL???? If a little girl is dead, covered with bruises and lacerations and Coe was the last adult person with her why are the autopsy photos inadmissible?????? If you cannot be judged on your past behavior, why do they keep a record of speeding tickets and traffic violations? By this logic, I shouldn't be speeding any more, or parking in the wrong place....:waitasec: What am I missing here?

TIA to anyone who can make me understand this....I know this doesn't apply to just this crime, but I really cannot understand this "principle".

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I think this may partially explain why THIS jury won't hear about his prior bad behavior. I want to know why he had not been prosecuted for these alleged crimes, the abuse against this little boy - had been going on for such a long time!

By TERRI LANGFORD - HOUSTON CHRONICLE - Aug. 1, 2009 (snipped)

Two more children who had contact with Lucas Ruric Coe were taken into protective custody Friday after Texas Child Protective Services confirmed one, a 4-year-old girl, had been sexually abused. :furious: :furious:

The 27-year-old Coe has been investigated by CPS three times in recent years :furious: :furious: in the physical abuse of another girlfriend's child. As a result of one of those cases — unrelated to Emma's death — Coe has been indicted in Montgomery County on one count of injury to a child. He has not yet gone to trial. :banghead: :banghead:

“A new report was generated as a result of a child death investigation involving Mr. Coe with Harris County Protective Services.” Carter said. “We needed to take custody.”

Young testified this week in a hearing to determine temporary custody of her other children, that she had nothing to do with Emma's death and did not see anyone harm her daughter. :furious: :furious:

CPS' action on Friday came after the 4-year-old Montgomery County girl told medical staff she had been touched inappropriately, according to an affidavit filed with a Montgomery County court. An exam confirmed the girl had been sexually abused, Carter said. :banghead: :banghead:

The other child, a 9-year-old boy, had not been sexually abused but was living in the same home. Both children were taken late Friday and placed into a foster home. CPS' investigation is continuing. :furious: :banghead:

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Time line & Police records show Coe was arrested in 3 counties (Montgomery, Harris and Galveston)!

04/20/01 - Driving While Intoxicated (age 19) (misdemeanor) -

02/22/02 - Sentenced - 30 days in jail, fine, and court costs.

12/21/02 - Aggravated Assault Causes Serious Bodily Injury (second-degree felony)

Arrested after intentionally crashing his vehicle into a car occupied by several people, badly breaking one man's leg, during a fight over a woman

03/18/03 - sentenced to 6 yrs probation

11/21/03 - Failure to Stop and Give Information-

01/20/04 - charges dismissed -

03/13/04 - Criminal Mischief (misdemeanor) –

09/21/04 - sentenced - fined and court costs

01/13/05 - Montgomery County indicted for Serious Bodily Injury to a Child (first-degree felony) – awaiting trial

05/21/05 -DWI #2 –

05/16/06 - 1 year in jail (suspended) + 1 year of probation

03/21/07 - Motion to revoke probation based on non-compliance of probation

09/21/07 - Motion was withdrawn when the judge discovered Coe had been indicted in another county

09/27/07 - charged in Montgomery County with Bodily Injury to a Child (third-degree felony) – awaiting trial involving the son of a former GF

02/28/08 - arraigned on the Sept. 27, 2007 charge.

03/18/09 - - completed 6 yrs probation

06/08/09 - CPS was notified a 3 yr old Emma Thompson had herpes in her mouth, vagina and on her hands. Mother claimed the father, Ben Thompson is the only man who had access to Emma

06/18/09 - Doctor at Texas Children's Hospital determines no sexual abuse - case closed!

06/27/09 - Emma Thompson died after she was beaten and savagely raped according to her autopsy - previous physical abuse and a herpes infection noted. (a skull fracture, scalp laceration & hemorrhage, a severed pancreas, and vaginal tearing & hemorrhage 80 bruises)

08/10/09 - first-degree felony Serious Bodily Injury to a Child (Emma Thompson)

After finally giving a urine sample (three days after the judge requested) his bail was reduced to $100,000, he was released from the Harris County Jail!

01/06/10 - He was arrested and booked into the Montgomery County Jail on a bench warrant, a warrant for injury to a child, and a warrant for failure to appear from the court of Pct. 3 Justice of the Peace Edie Connelly.

01/12/10 - reindicted in Montgomery County for Serious Bodily Injury to a Child.

That's an impressive set of priors-journalists, inquiring minds want to know...isnt this worth some commentary?

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7672086

Sister of victim testifies in toddler rape case

Isn't it tho? Right now it just makes me sad and tired. He is so young, he was so very young when all this bad behavior began. Somehow I doubt the DWI was his first run in, or the first time he showed very, bad behavior, so what is his story?

I remember his sister coming to his defense - early in this huge mess, saying he would never do any of the horrible things he had been charged with. Then someone got ahold of her MySpace or FaceBook acct and tried publishing her children's names and photos on public websites, which of course lead to death threats and angry replies. Not cool.

Sad for Emma's sister who again had to testify - she's 11 years old, isn't it bad enough she had to live this the first and second times? IIRC she had said (during Abby's trial) the kitchen fall (where she found Emma in Coe's arms, with a bleeding cut on her head) happened in the AM - Abby's story about the BR fall happened in the PM - after she left Coe alone with the girls for an hour while she grocery shopped.

I don't really know how much we can trust the 11 yr olds memory - since Abby had custody and after Emma died, she seemed to have begun drilling the kids with Coe never hurt any of them - before she even opened the door to the house - all three girls were examined after Emma tested positive for herpes - yet Abby got away with the lie about no boyfriends anywhere - she was after all, still married to Ben HMPHHH!

Poor baby Emma, how can a mother be so heartless...

Yep, right now I'm just very tired and sad.

From above link....

The mother, Abigail Young, is serving a 20-year sentence for failing to protect her daughter. She is not expected to testify in this trial.

LCoastMom said:

From above link....

The mother, Abigail Young, is serving a 20-year sentence for failing to protect her daughter. She is not expected to testify in this trial.

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Yes, I expected to see that. It would be too confusing for the jury I think, unless she was willing to say what her actual role was in all of this. And, GOD forbid, what if her role was bigger?

I think it is a good call to keep her out, BUT I think she has an obligation to Emma to stand up and tell the truth. As we have seen clearly, she feels an obligation to herself. She saved her own skin time and time again. There is a nice learned behavior...kind of tempting to wonder about her childhood as well.

((hugs)) Lcoastmom. I am with you.

Paintr said:

I wish there was more coverage of this trial! Wasn't Emma's older half sister due to testify?

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I ran across this site where someone who's attending the trial each day is posting daily updates to let everyone know what's happening in the courtroom. Lots of interesting info that the media isn't covering - the updates begin on page 7:

http://www.realitychatter.com/missing-murdered-f30/emma-thompson-deceased-6-27-09-t2705-120.htm

Mods - If this link isn't allowed, please delete. I searched the forum rules before posting and didn't find any prohibitions in linking to other forums. Thank you!

CuriousTwo said:

I ran across this site where someone who's attending the trial each day is posting daily updates to let everyone know what's happening in the courtroom. Lots of interesting info that the media isn't covering - the updates begin on page 7:

http://www.realitychatter.com/missing-murdered-f30/emma-thompson-deceased-6-27-09-t2705-120.htm

Mods - If this link isn't allowed, please delete. I searched the forum rules before posting and didn't find any prohibitions in linking to other forums. Thank you!

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Thank you for the link as horrendous as it was to read (((HUGS))) to Ann for going to trial, Poor baby Emma, her mother had called the doctor :

6:30 pm
6:31 pm
8:22 pm
8:25 pm
8:29 p.m

The Answering service answered all calls through 8:25. Dr. Sane called Young at 8:29. The call lasted 9 minutes. Young said Emma was having painful urination and her urine smelled real bad.

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Really is that all that you noticed you POC????

Where was Abby after grocery shopping mid afternoon per the neighbor??? What happened between 6:31 and 8:22?

Note Emma was in bed all day, but her POC momster waited until after hours to call the pediatrician!!

This gifted RN needed to call the pediatrician 5 times but couldn't take it on herself to go the ER! I call BS! (did Abby call Luke, from the corner? as he called his mom and said Emma had died) Worthless not deserving of the air he breathes!

Two adults shared a home with Lil Emma - the photo's of Emma covered in bruises, with a horrific tear on her vagina - tell the story of that baby's last 24 hours of her life. Why did the DA not press both adults with Murder1, plus aggravated sexual assault??? I Wanna Know?!?!? The poster at the other site said the defense claiming Emma was not sexually abused was an insult to her intelligence... So why did the State of TX not prosecute these two adults who spent the day with Emma? - BOTH of them know what happened. BOTH OF THEM SHARE THE GUILT EQUALLY!

Guys, you are killing me. Can we find anyone who has been consistently covering this case and would be open to a media campaign that would put pressure on the DA's office to come clean with why these adults were not charged with what seems so obvious.

Great information on that site about the trial. My thanks to Ann as well. This case has become part of my soul. I don't understand why these people weren't charged with murder. One thing to note, I have noticed Texas typically has very early parole eligibility dates, however I haven't seen a case where they actually let them go anywhere near that time. I don't think Abigail has a prayer of getting out in 5 years and will most likely do the majority of the 20, based on other cases I have done. Again, it's a limited database at this point, but that is what I have seen so far. Although they will have an early parole eligibility date, their projected parole date is always way after that. Once Abigail gets moved to DOC, I will be able to see what the projection is.

ETA: Right now, she is still in the Harris County Jail. Not sure what the hold up is in getting her moved to the prison system.

believe09 said:

Guys, you are killing me. Can we find anyone who has been consistently covering this case and would be open to a media campaign that would put pressure on the DA's office to come clean with why these adults were not charged with what seems so obvious.

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Media is saying the DA decided not to go for murder because it would be harder to prove than the sexual assault. I'm thinking the DA is worried about their evidence to some extent. They say (Ann in her notes of the trial) there is semen-DNA on Emma's blanket - but if the Defending Attn'y does a good job, he might be able to convince the jury that the semen-DNA got on that blanket some way that had nothing to do with Emma. Obviously it is the defending Attn'y's position that Coe did not do anything to Emma. In addition, the evidence may not be strong enough to conclusively prove that Coe was the one that caused Emma's death - but it appears the evidence is strong enough to prove the sexual assault.

If the DA pushed for murder and couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt (high standard) then Coe would walk and would not have to face any charges at all for his part in Emma's death. I think the DA was playing it a bit safe to make sure that Coe went to jail. Given that the trial is in Texas, if he is convicted, I feel fairly certain his sentence will be a long one and the sentencing requirements when convicted of super sexual assault do not allow for parole.

I think that is an important factor - the no parole. The DA is saying "we are going to put you behind bars and you are not going to get out!"

This DA wants to be sure that Coe does NOT walk - imho.

Salem

Salem said:

Media is saying the DA decided not to go for murder because it would be harder to prove than the sexual assault. I'm thinking the DA is worried about their evidence to some extent. They say (Ann in her notes of the trial) there is semen-DNA on Emma's blanket - but if the Defending Attn'y does a good job, he might be able to convince the jury that the semen-DNA got on that blanket some way that had nothing to do with Emma. Obviously it is the defending Attn'y's position that Coe did not do anything to Emma. In addition, the evidence may not be strong enough to conclusively prove that Coe was the one that caused Emma's death - but it appears the evidence is strong enough to prove the sexual assault.

If the DA pushed for murder and couldn't convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt (high standard) then Coe would walk and would not have to face any charges at all for his part in Emma's death. I think the DA was playing it a bit safe to make sure that Coe went to jail. Given that the trial is in Texas, if he is convicted, I feel fairly certain his sentence will be a long one and the sentencing requirements when convicted of super sexual assault do not allow for parole.

I think that is an important factor - the no parole. The DA is saying "we are going to put you behind bars and you are not going to get out!"

This DA wants to be sure that Coe does NOT walk - imho.

Salem

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At first I was outraged when I heard that between Young and Coe, neither of them would be charged with Emma's actual murder. But, now I agree with Salem ... the most important thing was to get Coe off the street for good, to ensure that this never happened to another child again, ever. If the DA felt that the murder case wasn't as strong (for whatever reason), then I trust their judgement ... I would much rather see him get life with no possibility of parole on a lesser charge, than to risk having him escape a guilty verdict in a murder trial and be set free out on the streets where other children could fall prey to him. It's taken me quite a while to reach this point, though.

Alright-thank you Salem. I will try and chill. Maybe, if he is not convicted of the SA (GOD FORBID) they will come at him with the murder charge...kind of a hip pocket thing.

They have a witness, who may be unreliable. (sister) After all this poor baby may have suddenly thrown herself repeatedly to cause herself 80 bruises, a severed pancreas and a broken skull.

I am wondering if, in spite of the Defense, the jurors would be able to keep apart the semen on the blanket and the tears.

Awwww. I hope she was unconscious after the first blow.

Horsetrackwidow1 wrote:
But why do the DA's assigned to this case look and sound so bad?? At some point, there were excellent DAs who could do more than shout, "You are guilty." (which has no evidentiary weight) at a jury. And the DAs didn't look like they were going clubbing after trial.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I have never worked for the DAs office, and I have never practiced criminal law at all. I am appalled by this case because of the disgusting injuries and the mother's apparent complicity in her daughter's horrific death. And after watching portions of the opening statements, all that I can wonder is where are the DAs who knew what they were doing???? I am a civil attorney who is perplexed by why this case appears as though it may not go the way that a mother of children would hope that it would go. As a female attorney, I am embarrassed.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/7201204.html

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Salem, why not go with both charges? They would be separate counts, right? So you charge them with Murder 1 or 2, aggravated rape and child abuse all are felonies... Wouldn't all leave him behind bars for 99 years (each) or so? Or does TX do things differently? It feels (IMO) like they are getting away with murder.

Little Emma per her father was broken out in blisters since mid - May it took her mother over 2 weeks to call then get her in to see the pediatrician - who immediately called CPS when the blisters came back + for HV.

On 6/27 Abby was at home to call Emma's doctor at 630ish and 830ish at 7 she was at the grocery store where she bought groceries and super glue! After speaking with her pediatrician for 9 minutes (called back - after the 830 call) Abby placed Emma in the back of her car and drove down the street - Coe took the girls to a neighbor - he was heard talking on his cell phone saying "Mom, Emma died, she's gone" (his own daughter's name is also Emma - evidently he didn't have to explain which Emma he was referring to!)

They also (according to expert testimony) showered little Emma before taking her to the ER (her hair was wet from water - most of the blood had been washed out)

Can you even imagine putting your critically ill child in the shower to take her to the ER? But that wasn't what Abby was doing, she put Emma in the car and drove her half a block, then called 911!!!

Abby was no new nursing graduate, she had been a "gifted" RN for several years! Yet she left Emma home alone on Sat (with Coe), came home - called the doctor, left her home again to go buy groceries and super glue! then came home and called the doctor back!!

I am so angry at this POC "parent" and her "boyfriend" I can't even say!!

Thank you LCoast-Abby was buying super glue for a fractured skull that we know was not caused by a bathroom fall if you can believe that portion of sister's testimony-it happened in the kitchen and then Emma was "put to bed." "For a nap."

She could not be roused, so Abby either ran out and bought super-glue or picked it up on her way home???

Here is a thought-"Hey lucas call 911 and I will be there as soon as I can..." RIIGHT, he was not supposed to be any where near minor children...so he couldnt do that.

This talented nurse did or did not recognize that her child had a fractured skull??? I am a SAHM who does NOT have a nursing background and I can figure out a fracture/concussion/abrasion. I dont care what kind of a fracture it is, with the exception of the kind that killed Liam Nieson's wife, it is pretty easy to figure out.

So, what is the evidence they are worried about? The crime scene was cleaned up before Emma was taken to the ER by her mom, right? Emma's sister may or may not be reliable as a witness? Abby may or may not have been home at the time of the injuries?

I thought I was OK with the explanations, but I really really need this spelled out for me.

Does anyone know if there's a transcript of Abby's trial posted anywhere?

Believe - Great questions ... I'd love to know more details regarding the timeline of the evening as well.

Respectfully snipped ~

LCoastMom said:

Salem, why not go with both charges? They would be separate counts, right? So you charge them with Murder 1 or 2, aggravated rape and child abuse all are felonies... Wouldn't all leave him behind bars for 99 years (each) or so? Or does TX do things differently? It feels (IMO) like they are getting away with murder.

On 6/27 Abby was at home to call Emma's doctor at 630ish and 830ish at 7 she was at the grocery store where she bought groceries and super glue! After speaking with her pediatrician for 9 minutes (called back - after the 830 call) Abby placed Emma in the back of her car and drove down the street - Coe took the girls to a neighbor - he was heard talking on his cell phone saying "Mom, Emma died, she's gone" (his own daughter's name is also Emma - evidently he didn't have to explain which Emma he was referring to!)

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LCoastmom - I can't answer your question about why they didn't go with a series of charges. From all I have read, I really think it is an evidence problem. The showering probably played a really big factor and moving her away from the house before calling 911. At this point in time, the defense attny seems to think there is no DNA that connects Coe to Emma or to Emma's death.

See my comments in believe's post in green.

believe09 said:

Thank you LCoast-Abby was buying super glue for a fractured skull that we know was not caused by a bathroom fall if you can believe that portion of sister's testimony-it happened in the kitchen and this is one of the evidence issues, I think. The sister didn't see what happened, she just heard a noise. So if it was this fall that caused Emma's death, it would be difficult to pin it on Coe and then Emma was "put to bed." "For a nap."

She could not be roused, so Abby either ran out and bought super-glue or picked it up on her way home??? According to the phone call log, as LCoastmom mentioned above - there were a series of phone calls from approx. 6:30-6:35 (3 or 4 phone calls) to the doctor. Then nothing until almost 8:00. There were another 3 or 4 calls between 8-8:10 p.m. which is what leads one to believe this is when AY went to the store to get the superglue.

Here is a thought-"Hey lucas call 911 and I will be there as soon as I can..." RIIGHT, he was not supposed to be any where near minor children...so he couldnt do that. Right - couldn't do this because he wasn't supposed to be there. This is also why AY put Emma in the car, drove down the block and then called 911, imo.

So, what is the evidence they are worried about? The crime scene was cleaned up before Emma was taken to the ER by her mom, right? Yes, apparently to some extent. Enough to get evidence leading to Coe's complicity (is that the right word?) out of the way. Emma's sister may or may not be reliable as a witness? She is probably very reliable, but she didn't actually see anything - she heard a loud noise. Abby may or may not have been home at the time of the injuries? I'm not sure about this - I believe that Emma's injuries extended over a long period of time and would be willing to bet that AY was around for some it.

I thought I was OK with the explanations, but I really really need this spelled out for me.

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As near as I can tell so far, there was no DNA evidence on Emma - so the two conspired to wash it off of Emma before AY put her in the car and drove down the block (in my opinion). There is no witness that will say conclusively that they saw Coe hurt Emma. Everything is fairly circumstantial. We don't have the autopsy report, so we don't know what the actual cause of death was. If it was the skull fracture - there is no witness to say Coe caused it, only circumstantial evidence - the sister heard a noise. If it was the sexual assault and it is true there was no DNA on Emma's body - then again it is only circumstantial. If it was the internal damage that was done to this poor baby, again the evidence is circumstantial because no will testify as to what happened, so the jury will be left to make inferences from what evidence is presented.

So, I think the DA is playing it safe and going for a conviction they feel certain they can get. Maybe they didn't throw the other charges in because they felt it might be too overwhelming for the jury. If the jury could not convict on the murder charge, would they be hesitant to convict on the sex assault charge? Emotions will run high in this case because of the damage to that sweet baby.

An Attorney never knows what a jury will do, especially when they don't have iron clad evidence.

One little bit of Coe's DNA on that baby's body - and the DA probably would have gone for the murder charge. It is my opinion that Emma's mom worked hard to get the DNA off of poor baby Emma and for that - 20 years will never be long enough, in my opinion.

Salem