Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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Seebra said:
Good points - I REALLY feel that it was LAZINESS on her part that it was not dumped further away. That and the fear of running out of gas again.
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bumping thread to ask a question to all members, not specifically Seebra:

what i don't get... is if KC truly wanted to try to pin this on "zenaida", why on earth would she leave all those personal possessions (diary, pics, book, etc) with caylee's body? we know KC is lazy, but you'd think she'd be smarter than this - if she was determined to persevere with the nanny story. am i missing something? some other reason she'd do this?

(if this has been discussed elsewhere, pls forgive me. i've looked but couldn't locate... )
 
redheadedgal said:
bumping thread to ask a question to all members, not specifically Seebra:

what i don't get... is if KC truly wanted to try to pin this on "zenaida", why on earth would she leave all those personal possessions (diary, pics, book, etc) with caylee's body? we know KC is lazy, but you'd think she'd be smarter than this - if she was determined to persevere with the nanny story. am i missing something? some other reason she'd do this?

(if this has been discussed elsewhere, pls forgive me. i've looked but couldn't locate... )
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I think she thought no one would ever find Caylee... :(
 
redheadedgal said:
bumping thread to ask a question to all members, not specifically Seebra:

what i don't get... is if KC truly wanted to try to pin this on "zenaida", why on earth would she leave all those personal possessions (diary, pics, book, etc) with caylee's body? we know KC is lazy, but you'd think she'd be smarter than this - if she was determined to persevere with the nanny story. am i missing something? some other reason she'd do this?

(if this has been discussed elsewhere, pls forgive me. i've looked but couldn't locate... )
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She didn't leave her diary, pics or book with Caylee's body. These items were taken on one of the search warrants of the home. The only things mentioned that were recovered with the body were the winnie the poo blanket and balloon.
 
I'm unable to source it...but, thinking lately that the co-sleeping arrangement w/ Caylee & Casey I'm hearing more about may have been at the core of the dynamic fueling Casey's actions, and Caylee's demise 6/16PM.

If accurate, Caylee not able/willing to go to sleep w/o Casey was perhaps...

  • the reason she shared the bed w/ Casey & Ricardo.
  • the reason it may have been difficult for Cindy to keep Caylee w/o Casey @ home @ bedtime - creating a tie that binds - and a directly compelling reason for Cindy to want Casey on a short leash...totally crashing any evening-out plans Casey might want to make...ever
  • the reason Tony represented such a self-serving symbol of 'freedom'. His postion that his apt. was not a good place for Caylee - while it created an issue - also created a dream-come-true excuse for Casey to jettison the ball-and-chain responsiblity that was her daughter :furious: if only for a few hours at a time...

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from G or C about this dynamic and ZFG. :waitasec: IOW...if Cindy had difficulty getting Caylee to go down...she was willing to believe that ZFG got her down w/o issue...OR...she was curious about it and discussed it w/ Casey and we aren't hearing about this detail.

This may have also been a spark for the 6/15PM fight, with Casey wanting to escape back to Tony's..(esp. if Nate was outta town) and Cindy needing to go to work 6/16AM...not wanting to deal w/ an inevitablely tearful and protracted bedtime that night.

Under the circumstances of the evening, 6/16, I can easily envision a Casey blow-up 6/16PM whilst she tried to get Caylee down so she could escape to Blockbuster & Tony...perhaps in the Pontiac w/ some OTC/Rx assistance....not working fast enough...duct tape employed :( Casey thought...She TRIED to get Cindy to let her drop Caylee off @ Gentiva! She TRIED to get Amy! It'll just be a few hours...right?!?!
 
BondJamesBond said:
I'm unable to source it...but, thinking lately that the co-sleeping arrangement w/ Caylee & Casey I'm hearing more about may have been at the core of the dynamic fueling Casey's actions, and Caylee's demise 6/16PM.

If accurate, Caylee not able/willing to go to sleep w/o Casey was perhaps...

  • the reason she shared the bed w/ Casey & Ricardo.
  • the reason it may have been difficult for Cindy to keep Caylee w/o Casey @ home @ bedtime - creating a tie that binds - and a directly compelling reason for Cindy to want Casey on a short leash...totally crashing any evening-out plans Casey might want to make...ever
  • the reason Tony represented such a self-serving symbol of 'freedom'. His postion that his apt. was not a good place for Caylee - while it created an issue - also created a dream-come-true excuse for Casey to jettison the ball-and-chain responsiblity that was her daughter :furious: if only for a few hours at a time...

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from G or C about this dynamic and ZFG. :waitasec: IOW...if Cindy had difficulty getting Caylee to go down...she was willing to believe that ZFG got her down w/o issue...OR...she was curious about it and discussed it w/ Casey and we aren't hearing about this detail.

This may have also been a spark for the 6/15PM fight, with Casey wanting to escape back to Tony's..(esp. if Nate was outta town) and Cindy needing to go to work 6/16AM...not wanting to deal w/ an inevitablely tearful and protracted bedtime that night.

Under the circumstances of the evening, 6/16, I can easily envision a Casey blow-up 6/16PM whilst she tried to get Caylee down so she could escape to Blockbuster & Tony...perhaps in the Pontiac w/ some OTC/Rx assistance....not working fast enough...duct tape employed :( Casey thought...She TRIED to get Cindy to let her drop Caylee off @ Gentiva! She TRIED to get Amy! It'll just be a few hours...right?!?!
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Oh, I think you are onto something BIG. I've posted a couple of times that the co-sleeping situation was a major issue in that house.

I have friends that started co-sleeping at the newborn phase to make nursing and sleeping easier only wind up sleeping with their toddler until they were 4-5 years old....most enjoying every moment of it but admitting they were the only ones to get their child to sleep and it required them being in bed with them.

Bedtime would NOT be easy without KC.... ever.

I think it's exactly why she shared a bed with Ricardo and Caylee.

It's why CA would call KC in the middle of the night to come home....probably because Caylee woke up scared and in a panic waking the entire house. (I swear I remember posting about this but can't remember which thread...maybe the "where exactly Caylee died thread??")

KC was Caylee's "lovie" to fall asleep with which breaks my heart even more.

KC knew she couldn't bring Caylee to TonE's.....and she knew she couldn't leave Caylee alone to sleep at the A's. Co-sleeping was a major thorn in her side.

Good post, BJB!!!
 
In a situation where everyone sort of co-parents a child, I doubt that Caylee would have cared who slept with her. She seemed as close to the others as to her mother. It has been hinted that she wasn't all that close to KC anyway. Lee made the comment that his parents had Caylee 90% of the time. Of course, that was before he knew KC hadn't worked for years so in reality she had Caylee way more than anyone of them knew. You know you can't really bond well with your child if your main concern in your life is chasing men and partying. You can't do both well and the child feels it.
 
Curiousintx said:
In a situation where everyone sort of co-parents a child, I doubt that Caylee would have cared who slept with her. She seemed as close to the others as to her mother. It has been hinted that she wasn't all that close to KC anyway. Lee made the comment that his parents had Caylee 90% of the time. Of course, that was before he knew KC hadn't worked for years so in reality she had Caylee way more than anyone of them knew. You know you can't really bond well with your child if your main concern in your life is chasing men and partying. You can't do both well and the child feels it.
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Totally agree with this.

I have a BIG problem with the accidental death theory, and do not believe that KC EVER used drugs to knock little Caylee out. I think this was a planned, premeditated murder pure and simple. No Zanax for party time, no sleeping in her mommy's trunk, normal life until KC carried out her plan of intentional murder.
 
She drugged Caylee and recklessly gave her much more than was necessary to keep her quiet (I am betting KC told herself that she was just trying to keep her quiet ...not kill her..."oops" gave her too much and "didn't mean it"). I am betting she felt very bad after the reality sunk in and she had her lifeless body right in front of her. She added the duct tape and heart sticker to bolster the kidnap "look" (although the heart sticker was purely nuts!) My bet is that she was truly out of her ever-lovin mind especially when the finality of it all hit her. She was probably momentarily hysterical with the flurry of phone calls..trying to know where everyone was and wondering what to do. She put her in the trunk and decided not to look at the situation. Can you imagine this...sitting through a movie with your boyfriend while your dead child is in your trunk? Well, she has an unusual capacity to AVOID as evidenced by the pregnancy in the first place.
 
I'm beginning to think she actually ritualized this murder to a certain degree -- much as a child would with a pet. As for why, I'm still pondering that one.
 
BondJamesBond said:
I'm unable to source it...but, thinking lately that the co-sleeping arrangement w/ Caylee & Casey I'm hearing more about may have been at the core of the dynamic fueling Casey's actions, and Caylee's demise 6/16PM.

If accurate, Caylee not able/willing to go to sleep w/o Casey was perhaps...

  • the reason she shared the bed w/ Casey & Ricardo.
  • the reason it may have been difficult for Cindy to keep Caylee w/o Casey @ home @ bedtime - creating a tie that binds - and a directly compelling reason for Cindy to want Casey on a short leash...totally crashing any evening-out plans Casey might want to make...ever
  • the reason Tony represented such a self-serving symbol of 'freedom'. His postion that his apt. was not a good place for Caylee - while it created an issue - also created a dream-come-true excuse for Casey to jettison the ball-and-chain responsiblity that was her daughter :furious: if only for a few hours at a time...

Interesting that we haven't heard anything from G or C about this dynamic and ZFG. :waitasec: IOW...if Cindy had difficulty getting Caylee to go down...she was willing to believe that ZFG got her down w/o issue...OR...she was curious about it and discussed it w/ Casey and we aren't hearing about this detail.

This may have also been a spark for the 6/15PM fight, with Casey wanting to escape back to Tony's..(esp. if Nate was outta town) and Cindy needing to go to work 6/16AM...not wanting to deal w/ an inevitablely tearful and protracted bedtime that night.

Under the circumstances of the evening, 6/16, I can easily envision a Casey blow-up 6/16PM whilst she tried to get Caylee down so she could escape to Blockbuster & Tony...perhaps in the Pontiac w/ some OTC/Rx assistance....not working fast enough...duct tape employed :( Casey thought...She TRIED to get Cindy to let her drop Caylee off @ Gentiva! She TRIED to get Amy! It'll just be a few hours...right?!?!
Click to expand...

Good post BJB!! I know first hand how frushtrating(!) it can be to get a child that age to sleep. I logged many miles in my car to get my son to sleep at times (of course he was not drugged and did not have duct tape over his mouth...). For some reason the movement of the car made him get drowsy almost immediately and once he fell asleep I'd go home, carry him in and put him to bed. Wow, though - if Casey put her in her car seat with the duct tape over her mouth, she would have been very lucky that someone else didn't see that and call the police. It would have taken a lot of nerve to do something like that, but I guess by now we should know that she has a lot of nerve if nothing else!

ETA- just "getting to sleep" could have been as much a problem as co-sleeping, IMO. I'm guessing that a lack of consistency in Caylee's bedtime and where she slept would have aggravated either one.
 
amysmom said:
I'm no expert but it doesn't seem plausible to me that she could go from a suicide plan to having the best time of life without skipping a beat..She also didn't seem worried about stealing from family/friends cos that habit never died (no pun) after Caylee did & with nothing much left of her I don't think it can just be assumed it was a gentle murder..If I consider her internet searches it actually points away from that theory..
Above all else I believe she loved herself way too much to do herself in
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& everything she did before (& after) the fact backs that up for me.
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Totally, agree. No way did this think to do her 'awesome' self in..(in her opinion.lol) she just wanted to live it up,couldnt even find time to start her 'missing kid' story yet--had to be pushed into that one( by 'momma')--- she was way to busy having fun.
 
I had a thought last night and wanted help to see if this was even possible. CA co worker stated the GA had a gambling problem. Do you think he could have borrowed money from some shady people and then couldn't repay them. They took Caylee until GA could come up with the money. GA confides in KC and KC does everything she has to help come up with the money. But when CA turns her into the police she still needed about 1 more day to come up with the funds. Once it hit the media and it was realized fingers were pointed at KC, they killed caylee and disposed of her near her house.
 
warbuckle said:
I had a thought last night and wanted help to see if this was even possible. CA co worker stated the GA had a gambling problem. Do you think he could have borrowed money from some shady people and then couldn't repay them. They took Caylee until GA could come up with the money. GA confides in KC and KC does everything she has to help come up with the money. But when CA turns her into the police she still needed about 1 more day to come up with the funds. Once it hit the media and it was realized fingers were pointed at KC, they killed caylee and disposed of her near her house.
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I think if this had happened GA would have stated so in his suicide letter. Since the State has agreed to supress GA's suicide letter because it has no bearing on the case, I am concluding that he had nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance and death.
 
warbuckle said:
I had a thought last night and wanted help to see if this was even possible. CA co worker stated the GA had a gambling problem. Do you think he could have borrowed money from some shady people and then couldn't repay them. They took Caylee until GA could come up with the money. GA confides in KC and KC does everything she has to help come up with the money. But when CA turns her into the police she still needed about 1 more day to come up with the funds. Once it hit the media and it was realized fingers were pointed at KC, they killed caylee and disposed of her near her house.
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Casey is not the type of person to allow the opportunity to throw someone else under the bus escape her. If there was any chance to blame a real person, she would have done it. Because the only person who did it was Casey, she had to create a phantom nanny. Any may I add that this will all come out as premeditated.
 
thelmadawg said:
I'm beginning to think she actually ritualized this murder to a certain degree -- much as a child would with a pet. As for why, I'm still pondering that one.
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Maybe because she thought of Caylee as a pet or maybe a toy. Caylee was someone she could dress up, take pictures of and then toss in the corner when she was finished with her.
 
Reposing Theories after more thought:

1. KC killed Caylee following a plan she had (at least partially) planned for some time.

2. Caylee was killed "accidentally" from an overdose/mishap involving sedative/chloroform. That is neither a genuine accident, nor a planned out event.

3. KC was killed as a result of some accident, with KC's lack of care being a magor contributing factor.

4. KC, generally angry about her situation, specifically the flare up with Cindy, killed Caylee in a "spur of the moment" outburst.
__________________
Whichever turns out to be the most correct I find it almost unbelievable that within hours Casey was able to at least appear to be happy and carefree? Whether by her deliberate hand of not, her daughter was DEAD. She had a corpse to deal with, probably in her nearby car.
Evil certainly, but something way beyond that. Outside my universe?
__________________


I continue to struggle with surveillance video showing KC at Video Shop the evening of 16th. Even with the very low regard I have for KC, I still can not reconcile these images of a happy KC with the thought that she knew Caylee had died just hours before?

The only theory I can come up with is that Caylee was not dead yet, or at least KC did not know she was dead if she was. I think at that time of video shopping, KC knew she had put Caylee in the trunk of her car, but not if she was dead or not?
Further, I think Caylee was alive, but died later as she was left there overnight. My considerations of other evidence lead me to believe Caylee actually died the morning of 17th.
 
I still think it was an accident and then she tried to make it look like a kidnapping. However, the most damning thing to me is when she told her mother that she was a spitful *****. Her saying that just doesn't jive with I am so distraught my child was kidnapped.
 
warbuckle said:
I still think it was an accident and then she tried to make it look like a kidnapping. However, the most damning thing to me is when she told her mother that she was a spitful *****. Her saying that just doesn't jive with I am so distraught my child was kidnapped.
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I really do not see any evidence at all of an accident?

At best "Accident" is just one of 4 possibilities.

In my view all the real and circumstantial evidence puts "accident" in least likely category?
 
Hercule Poirot said:
Reposing Theories after more thought:

1. KC killed Caylee following a plan she had (at least partially) planned for some time.

2. Caylee was killed "accidentally" from an overdose/mishap involving sedative/chloroform. That is neither a genuine accident, nor a planned out event.

3. KC was killed as a result of some accident, with KC's lack of care being a magor contributing factor.

4. KC, generally angry about her situation, specifically the flare up with Cindy, killed Caylee in a "spur of the moment" outburst.
__________________
Whichever turns out to be the most correct I find it almost unbelievable that within hours Casey was able to at least appear to be happy and carefree? Whether by her deliberate hand of not, her daughter was DEAD. She had a corpse to deal with, probably in her nearby car.
Evil certainly, but something way beyond that. Outside my universe?
__________________


I continue to struggle with surveillance video showing KC at Video Shop the evening of 16th. Even with the very low regard I have for KC, I still can not reconcile these images of a happy KC with the thought that she knew Caylee had died just hours before?

The only theory I can come up with is that Caylee was not dead yet, or at least KC did not know she was dead if she was. I think at that time of video shopping, KC knew she had put Caylee in the trunk of her car, but not if she was dead or not?
Further, I think Caylee was alive, but died later as she was left there overnight. My considerations of other evidence lead me to believe Caylee actually died the morning of 17th.
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KC got to Tony's apartment by 4:30 p.m. Casey was videotaped in Blockbuster at around 8:30 p.m.

Caylee wouldn't have lasted 4 hours in a trunk in Florida during the summer.

Caylee was gagged with tape that couldn't be removed without cutting Caylee's hair and probably pulling off skin.

To me, the duct tape says it all.
 
I still think a SMOTHERING still happened and became more convinced after the Aug 14th video.
 
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