Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

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daisy.faithfull said:
Thanks! I'd had looked at another picture of prescription receipts.

It looks like maybe the address for the Zeller's 74 Wilson St. and then the address for the Walmart that matches the phone number on the Walmart receipt is 499 N. Norwich Ave, at the intersection of Norwich and Julianna Dr.

If that is correct, then according to Google they are very close to one another. If MTR picked up the prescriptioins when he was getting the hair color TLM is more than likely lying about it being left outside because I can't see him leaving drugs out there.
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All of CM's prescriptions seem to have come from Zellers. Zellers on Dundas is 5 minute walk from 74 Wilson St. I'm going to guess that CM herself had to pick up her own Oxy prescriptions, or TLM as the pharmacist would have known them and that she was used to walking to Zellers long before MR came into the picture. So she or TLM likely picked up her own prescription during the day on the 11th before MR dropped around in the evening under the cover of darkness with the hair dye purchase.

MOO
 
JayFriend said:
He said it was "work in progress". Now, that's an oxymoron for sure! Anyway, you'll find the VIN in the published pictures of the car (I don't have the link handy, but I think it's in the previous thread.) For $20 you can get the history from any license office (unless the authorities have suppressed it due to the investigation).
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JMO......It is difficult to tell by the pictures, but it looks like the plastic interior parts were sanded after the white substance was applied, because there are distinct grinding marks apparent in some areas. I believe LE also found a couple of sanding discs in the car, which had a white substance on them, which would indicate they were used after the white substance was applied.

Judging by the amount of sanding through almost the entire interior, there must have been a lot to try to hide, if that was the purpose.

This brings up a question on TLM's testimony..........as I believe she stated that MR threw VS out onto the ground and then she started the assault.

If TLM's testimony was true, why would there be a need for such an extensive cleanup of the interior of the car?
 
daisy.faithfull said:
Thanks! I'd had looked at another picture of prescription receipts.

It looks like maybe the address for the Zeller's 74 Wilson St. and then the address for the Walmart that matches the phone number on the Walmart receipt is 499 N. Norwich Ave, at the intersection of Norwich and Julianna Dr.

If that is correct, then according to Google they are very close to one another. If MTR picked up the prescriptioins when he was getting the hair color TLM is more than likely lying about it being left outside because I can't see him leaving drugs out there.
Click to expand...

The Walmart receipt for the hair dye is for April 11th at 7:20pm....is there a time on any of the Zellers prescription receipts for the same day?
 
ChaChaCha said:
That is an interesting thought .... if the both of them had clammed up though and she didn't divulge the Guelph trip to buy drugs, Home Depot or Timmies, it would have been like looking for a needle in a haystack - most of the evidence against MR she directed LE to. All LE had intially was the CASS video on he

jmo
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Phone record pings as well records of ATM locations used would assist in what areas to focus on for possible video's so I believe those of the store and hardware stop would have been found. moo
 
flipflop said:
The Walmart receipt for the hair dye is for April 11th at 7:20pm....is there a time on any of the Zellers prescription receipts for the same day?
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April 11th, 2009 was a Saturday. Zellers Pharmacy is closed at 6pm on Saturdays. Probably the whole store. The only store open after 6pm on a Saturday would be Walmart. Especially since that was Easter weekend wasn't it?

http://thehealthline.ca/displayservice.aspx?id=15141
 
Hello_Kitty said:
It's strange to me that Derstine even mentioned EOA, specially after we had discussed it the night before.
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(RSBM)

I don't find it strange. The EOA is part of the evidence shown on April 4th, written at least three times on the violent letters to TLM found in her room. It's possible that Derstine intends to bring up the connection to this gang again at some point in the future. In what context, I have no idea. JMO

The EOA references can be seen here in Pics #50, #51, and #55 (at least).

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/04/19594746.html

dynamic_resize
 
Ardy said:
JMO......It is difficult to tell by the pictures, but it looks like the plastic interior parts were sanded after the white substance was applied, because there are distinct grinding marks apparent in some areas. I believe LE also found a couple of sanding discs in the car, which had a white substance on them, which would indicate they were used after the white substance was applied.

Judging by the amount of sanding through almost the entire interior, there must have been a lot to try to hide, if that was the purpose.

This brings up a question on TLM's testimony..........as I believe she stated that MR threw VS out onto the ground and then she started the assault.

If TLM's testimony was true, why would there be a need for such an extensive cleanup of the interior of the car?
Click to expand...

So maybe MR did buy this car cheap as a used beater and the whitewash was already on it. Perhaps he was trying to remove it. That was part of his "work in progress".

MOO
 
Kamille said:
April 11th, 2009 was a Saturday. Zellers Pharmacy is closed at 6pm on Saturdays. Probably the whole store. The only store open after 6pm on a Saturday would be Walmart. Especially since that was Easter weekend wasn't it?

http://thehealthline.ca/displayservice.aspx?id=15141
Click to expand...

Im thinking we will hear more on the hair dye purchase on april 11th, when the blackberry chapter comes up, as I am sure TLM and MR texted back and forth on this topic. JMO
 
Ardy said:
JMO......It is difficult to tell by the pictures, but it looks like the plastic interior parts were sanded after the white substance was applied, because there are distinct grinding marks apparent in some areas. I believe LE also found a couple of sanding discs in the car, which had a white substance on them, which would indicate they were used after the white substance was applied.

Judging by the amount of sanding through almost the entire interior, there must have been a lot to try to hide, if that was the purpose.

This brings up a question on TLM's testimony..........as I believe she stated that MR threw VS out onto the ground and then she started the assault.

If TLM's testimony was true, why would there be a need for such an extensive cleanup of the interior of the car?
Click to expand...

I believe she testified that the car doors were open, on the passenger side I think. Therefore blood could very easily have splattered into the car, I'm thinking that's why LE found blood on the door molding.
 
http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Can...ide-murder-manslaughter-infanticide-euth.html
What is murder?
It is murder when the killer of a human being:

means to cause the death of that human being; or
means to cause bodily harm to a human being that is likely to cause the death of that human being and the killer is reckless as to whether or not the person dies;
when the killer, for an unlawful purpose, does anything that he knows or ought to know is likely to cause death even they he may wish to carry out the unlawful purpose without causing death or bodily harm to a human being; or when the death of a human being results when:
the killer means to cause bodily harm to make it more certain to complete the crime successfully or make the killer's escape easier after the crime;
the killer gives the subjects the victim to an overpowering or stupefying;
the killer intentionally smothers the victim; or
causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit high treason or treason, sabotage, piracy, hijacking an aircraft, escape or rescue from prison or lawful custody, assaulting a peace officer, any of the sexual assault charges, kidnapping and forcible confinement, hostage taking, breaking and entering; or arson whether or not the criminal means to cause death to any human being or knows that it is likely to be caused.

The link and text above outlines what the Crown has to prove in order to secure a conviction against MR. According to the article cited above, the Crown will have to show that:
a) MR knew that Tori was abducted (they assert that he knew from the get go, and that he planned to abduct a child for nefarious purposes).
b) The Crown needs to show that MR planned to do harm to Tori, or ought to have reasonably known that TLM planned to do harm to the child (again, the Crown asserts that he planned this entire crime, and asserts it was his plan to rape and murder Tori). The defense has implied that he did not know that TLM planned to murder Tori, that TLM just did it while he had walked away from the car.

It seems that without the elements of intent and knowledge of the crime, that MR could actually get off the charge. It seems to me, that this is why Derstine is so focussed on showing the jury that TLM had a bad past, that she wrote nasty, violent descriptive letters and that she had a taste for music with horrific lyrics. It seems this is why the defense is saying that TLM was the engine behind the crime. Without proving those elements, I think MR could get off the murder one charge (could the jury then find him guilty of a lesser charge?).:twocents:
 
What I would like to know is why they haven't arrested BA for drug trafficking? It's illegal to sell personal scripts, guess they exchanged that for testimony that we haven't heard yet? Apparently CM had her own personal scripts as well. Wonder if MR was giving furniture pieces to them for CM's scripts? I find it bizarre to just meet TLM and than give them tables, chairs, lamps etc...maybe a chair ot two but all that furniture? Maybe MR knew his mother would feel bad for them and used that as an excuse to do his exchange. Lots of drug dealing and drug activity in this scenerio. Makes me wonder what else is going on, usually when there's drugs, there's trouble and people with lots of it. Oxycontin is big business apparently.
 
I don't know if this has any significance or not, but found it odd that MR would have two pairs of identical shorts. One that he allegedly gave TLM to wear home following the crime and seized by LE when they raided her house on May 19:

562747123_o.jpg

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf (#56 and #57)

and another pair found in his car a few hours earlier:

562756757_o.jpg


dynamic_resize

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19599961.html (#55 and #53)

Not only are they identical, but they have the identical stains on them. The one supposedly from TLM's room was shown as evidence on March 14. The one from MR's car was shown as evidence on April 5 (see label at bottom). Did LE get their evidence pics confused or mis-labeled? What other explanation could there be for the same shorts showing up in MR's car that afternoon and then again in TLM's room a few hours later? :waitasec:

RaffertyLFP:

white pair of basketball shorts with green strips found in the bag; water bottle, jacket also in bag.
Click to expand...

JMO
 
tmhco said:
Beyond a shadow of doubt is not the same as reasonable doubt. Big difference. IMO is is more reasonable to conclude that an 8 year old child found without pants, dead in the middle of an isolated field was raped by a man and not the product of a drug/gang war.

I am so sorry for your loss, but what if Karla hadn't confessed? JMO
Click to expand...

If Karla hadn't confessed, perhaps she would still be in jail. PB's lawyer claimed that he planned to use the tapes to discredit her. Had that happened, there would have been no plea bargain. I believe it was the day after he picked up the tapes that KH made her deal with the Crown, before he had even viewed them. So, even though he should have turned them over immediately, it would have been too late.
 
flipflop said:
Im thinking we will hear more on the hair dye purchase on april 11th, when the blackberry chapter comes up, as I am sure TLM and MR texted back and forth on this topic. JMO
Click to expand...

TLM did not have her own cell phone and used her mom's IIRC. If they were texting back and forth I can't see her not deleting anything her mom would find suspicious. Are text messages retrievable from the carrier/manufacturer after they are deleted from the phone? :waitasec:

I would think so but not positive.....anyone know for sure?
 
Oldsoul2 said:
What I would like to know is why they haven't arrested BA for drug trafficking? It's illegal to sell personal scripts, guess they exchanged that for testimony that we haven't heard yet? Apparently CM had her own personal scripts as well. Wonder if MR was giving furniture pieces to them for CM's scripts? I find it bizarre to just meet TLM and than give them tables, chairs, lamps etc...maybe a chair ot two but all that furniture? Maybe MR knew his mother would feel bad for them and used that as an excuse to do his exchange. Lots of drug dealing and drug activity in this scenerio. Makes me wonder what else is going on, usually when there's drugs, there's trouble and people with lots of it. Oxycontin is big business apparently.
Click to expand...

I (hope) believe that SOOO much more information is yet to come.
 
antiquegirl said:
I don't know if this has any significance or not, but found it odd that MR would have two pairs of identical shorts. Or, they look identical to me, at least. One that he allegedly gave TLM to wear home following the crime and seized by LE when they raided her house on May 19:

562747123_o.jpg

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf (#56 and #57)

and another pair found in his car a few hours before:

dynamic_resize

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19599961.html (#53)



JMO
Click to expand...

I've been totally confused by this and was thinking there is only one pair, that TLM must have given them back or MR came and got them from her at some point. At first I thought the gym bag was found at TLM's with the shorts.
 
I believe that the Crown accepts TLM's testimony and has presented it as evidence against MR. Therefore, the Crown also accepts TLM's testimony that she committed the murder is true.

Given that, the Crown must prove that MR had the intent to commit an unlawful action that would result in the death of VS. The charges of either kidnapping or sexual assault would qualify as such unlawful acts.

IMO if MR is convicted on either kidnapping or sexual assault, he will be found guilty of murder as well.

If he is found not guilty on those two charges, he would be found not guilty of the third charge of murder.

Thus far, beyond TLM's direct testimony, there is very little evidence to prove MR kidnapped or sexually assaulted VS............but that could change with one single piece of new evidence............JMO

Sorry JP.........it seems I repeated what you already posted...........
 
antiquegirl said:
I don't know if this has any significance or not, but found it odd that MR would have two pairs of identical shorts. Or, they look identical to me, at least. One that he allegedly gave TLM to wear home following the crime and seized by LE when they raided her house on May 19:

562747123_o.jpg

http://www.am980.ca/Other/McClintic.pdf (#56 and #57)

and another pair found in his car a few hours before:

dynamic_resize

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/05/19599961.html (#53)



JMO
Click to expand...

This totally confused me too. I'm wondering if this is another error by the press and they weren't found at TLM's house at all. She was arrested 3 days later so she must have returned them pretty quickly. I wonder why she didn't return the shoes as well.
 
Kittymama said:
Have you all heard of Occam's Razor? Basically it states that the explanation that makes the fewest assumptions is usually correct. No, it's not foolproof, but I also feel that many of these excuses being made for MTR are unreasonable. He drove the car. He drove past the school (repeatedly). He was with TLM. He lied to the police. He was there when a little girl was murdered.

I don't really buy the drug debt theory, so therefore I don't buy that TLM kidnapped her for that purpose. And let's face it, when a man is involved in a kidnapping of a child that is not his own, it's usually for sexual purposes.

So we can assume:

-MTR was an innocent dupe who had no idea what was going on until it was too late
-he had no idea why TLM really wanted to stop at the Home Depot (and why in Guelph? Isn't there one in Woodstock or at least London?)
-he was unaware of the social protocol that you just don't take a strange child in your car--or ANY child, without their parent's explicit permission.
-he was also unaware that driving said child far out of town went even further against the social protocol
-he was waiting in the parking lot of the retirement home because...there was too much traffic? Nobody seems to want to touch that one
-he drove out in the country just for the hell of it--again, with that strange child in his car
-he pulled into a VERY secluded spot just so that TLM could talk to Tori without him present
-he walked far enough away that not only could he not hear them talking, but he also couldn't hear or see TLM viciously murdering Tori with a hammer, using more force than was necessary to kill her
-he was also far enough away that he couldn't hear Tori screaming
-he didn't hear or see his trunk open for TLM to obtain the murder weapon and garbage bags
-he was terrified of her even though he was quite muscular at the time, and almost certainly stronger than her
-instead of backing away slowly from the murderous maniac, jumping in his car, locking the doors, and taking off without her, he helped her clean up this vicious murder of a child
-not only did he help her clean it up, but he also then drove her back to her town, dropped her off far from her own house (would you take that chance of ticking off a maniac by leaving her to walk home in shoes that didn't fit if you were afraid of her? I wouldn't), and then tried to help her disguise her identity
-he kept it all a secret and didn't help her family get closure even though he was simply an innocent dupe and didn't have anything more shameful than that to hide
-her blood was found in his car because...she had a nosebleed?
-he got rid of the seat because he suddenly decided, after participating in cleaning up a murder, that it would be a fine time to spruce up his car
-he had TLM discard chunks of the seat because...you got me with that one. <modsnip>.

No, that's too many assumptions for me to make. I think this case is a lot simpler than that.

We can also assume that he was abducted by aliens, his car seat was beamed up into their ship never to be seen again, and he was a victim of their mind control and that's why he did nothing, before or after. But is it reasonable? No.

And that's why I think it's unreasonable to keep trying to explain this all away. Taken together, it looks clear to me.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! You have put in words exactly what I have been thinking but have not been able to put down in a post. I have been unable to believe that there is a chance that MR is innocent and the reason is because I would somehow have to force my brain to believe all of the items you listed. JMO - impossible!!
 
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