Dead Folks and Decomp *WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS IN OPENING POST*#2

doogiesgirl said:

Even though this subject and the pictures are gruesome, I do want to know what stage Caylee's body was in say one day after her death, and then 3 days, 7 days, etc. I want to know how KC last saw her child. moo

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MADJGNLAW said:

I have been looking for the forensics that were released and I can't seem to find the one that they talk about Adipocere, I am so sure I read it in one of the doc's. Now, maybe this is found on all decomposing bodies? Anyone else recall reading about it? If so could you please share the link...Thank You so much!


I found another article that explains the Stages of Adipocere.

A Preliminary Investigation of the Stages of Adipocere Formation
"Snip" http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS2002230.htm
Abstract
Adipocere is a postmortem decomposition product which forms from a body's adipose tissue. This study aimed to chemically demonstrate the process of conversion from adipose tissue to adipocere.
Samples of adipocere were collected from pig cadavers that were allowed to decompose for varying intervals.
Samples of soil were collected from beneath the cadavers and analyzed to determine the leaching effect of adipocere. Gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) was used to quantify the fatty acid composition of pig adipocere.
Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR) was used as a confirmatory test and to identify other components such as triglycerides and calcium salts of fatty acids. The study demonstrates the process of adipocere formation and the stages of formation through which the process passes using chemical techniques

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BeanE said:

Shouldn't we be wrapping presents or baking gingerbread cookies or something? God. I'm sitting here with all these sweet, wonderful Christmas songs playing and reading this stuff.

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Tulessa said:

Warning, Pictures included! Not for the faint of heart!

I wanted to start this thread because several people had asked me about it. My power has been off for 4 days, just got a generator, so if this needs to be moved? Mods feel free to do so. We can use this as a reference thread when discussing the case.

Dead Folks and Decay



Bodies do not always decompose uniformly or in the same way. A corpse might be partially skeletonized, partially mummified, and partially converted to adipocere. Adipocere looks like this:

This photo is of two child victims in the famous Hoptoun Quarry Murders Case investigated by Sir Sydney Alfred Smith. Read the full story HERE.



http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/#comment-534

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wenwe4 said:

Warning - Graphic pics @ link!

It appears day 31 would look like this.


http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/body_changes/grave_wax.htm

"Adipocere is resistant to bacteria and can protect a corpse, slowing further decomposition. Adipocere starts to form within a month after death and has been recorded on bodies that have been exhumed after 100 years. If a body is readily accessible to insects, adipocere is unlikely to form".

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TakeNote said:

ok....i have a question.....may be a dumb one...ive been up all night...but here it goes....

why was there adipocere found in the trunk/papper towels/trash bag.....if the trunk showed 2.6 days of decomp?....above suggest that adipocere starts in about a month of decomp.....

can adipocere form with only body fluids? and not the rest of the body?

and adipocere is grave wax right?....because i could be getting these mixed up....

:sick:

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Tulessa said:

Thank LambChop.

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LambChop said:

And thank you, Tulessa, you did all the work. You can't argue with facts!!!

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Linz said:

!!!


D.P. Lyle, MD said, on November 12, 2009 at 3:47 pm
This scenario sounds as if it is a real life case and if so for Medico-Legal reasons I do not answer such questions. If it is for a work of fiction then you can submit your question and I’ll answer it. But I require certain information before answering questions. These requirements can be found on my website under the Forensic Community tab. Supply all info and send your question directly to me and I’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Go to: http://www.dplylemd.com



Wanted to ask him about the effects of freezing then thawing a body (because of the timeline, and popsicle questions by SA), but I wouldn't want to cause any problems for this forum. So do you think maybe it wouldn't matter if I'm vague enough? Or maybe someone here would know?



Just a theory that I've been playing with, that KC stored Caylee's body in the freezer for some time before transferring it to the trunk. Would explain the text to AH about getting rid of the source of the smell so much later than the 16th (24th? 26th?), the superficially irrelevant popsicle questions, and possibly any chemical inconsistencies like the accelerated formation of adipocere. If in fact there are inconsistancies- my knowledge of chemistry is almost nil.

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Harmony2 said:

Hi Linz!!
Note Dr. Lyle's response, posted above by you, was to a detailed question I posed to him. LOL!! If you want to ask him a question it is best to format the inquiry in vague broad terms. He will not respond to a question posed from a real life case. I learned the hard way LOL.

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TakeNote said:

ok....i have a question.....may be a dumb one...ive been up all night...but here it goes....

why was there adipocere found in the trunk/papper towels/trash bag.....if the trunk showed 2.6 days of decomp?....above suggest that adipocere starts in about a month of decomp.....

can adipocere form with only body fluids? and not the rest of the body?

and adipocere is grave wax right?....because i could be getting these mixed up....

:sick:

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mommaearth said:

I wonder if the heat from the trunk sped up the decomp process. I know that a trunk in FL in June is well over 100 degrees.

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