Cords, Knots, and Strangulation Devices

Cynic, if this is true, then I have to file this under "Spin". I cannot believe one word from this woman's mouth as we all know her main objective was to paint the Ramseys as pure and innocent. This is sad because if it is true about the urine stain being in the basement, there has to be a reason for Jameson stating it. Do you have any idea where I can find it at her site? As bad as I hate to, I will go there to see what I can find out about it.

joeskidbeck,

With no citations it looks like Jameson has manufactured the urine-stains in the basement. Her logic is thus: there were no urine-stains in her bed, so she must have been killed elsewhere. She was found in the basement, and since there is no sign of a struggle in the wine-cellar, then she must have been killed outside the wine-cellar door, subsequently voiding her bladder staining the longjohns and carpet.

So this Jamesonism grew legs and took off.

I'm willing to bet her motivation is similar that of Lou Smit who went to great lengths attempting to demonstrate an intruder could have accessed the basement via the grill or window. Smit touted the intruder as a sexually motivated predator, and skewed the public perception towards an intruder theory with some form of erotic-asphyxiation playing a part due to the garrote.

Jameson's urine-stains seem to serve a similar purpose e.g. JonBenet was killed in the basement because thats where the urine stains are, reinforcing the intruder myth?

Looks like occams razor was correct : how come in the bedwetting theory does JonBenet release urine twice?


.
 
But there WERE urine stains on her sheets. And THAT is from LE. To be honest, we will never know for sure exactly where JB was killed. Had the green fake needles in her hair been matched to the garland on the staircase, we could more easily place her death as having occurred in her room or bathroom and envision her being carried down those stairs.
I am not sure it really matters all that much, except that as far as who the perp was, doing the bashing/strangulation in JB's room with her brothers' rooms so close by would be risky if the perp(s) were NOT the brother(s).
The house was released as a crime scene FAR too soon. There was much more that could have been done to help determine where she died.
 
Every piece of this information solidifies my theory(for me, anyway). I believe without doubt that her head was bashed in her own bed and she was carried downstairs for the staging. It's possible that her bladder did not void with the head bash since it did not kill her, but it is also possible that it did (since brain activity probably ceased at that time. There may have been a urine stain in the basement because I believe that's where her life was actually taken and all the staging done. But for me, it does not matter if it is there or not, it does not prove anything one way or the other. The person who killed JonBenet was very comfortable in that home and not at all worried about being caught (in the act, anyway). There was no intruder.
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol6WsVmkGFc[/ame]

The prusik knot does not seem common, IME
is it truly a specialty knot?

"Learn how to tie a correct Prusik knot for hiking, climbing, or sailing in this free knot tying video clip."
 
To be honest, we will never know for sure exactly where JB was killed.
snip
I am not sure it really matters all that much, except that as far as who the perp was, doing the bashing/strangulation in JB's room with her brothers' rooms so close by would be risky if the perp(s) were NOT the brother(s).

It matters a whole lot where she was killed, as it will indicate who the killer was/wasn't. For example, rope fibers in her bed does not indicate RDI as there's no scenario I've so far heard that includes the rope found in JAR's bedroom. On the other hand, IDI would carry a rope to enter via the balcony. This could mean that the IDI had possibly entered the house earlier, written the RN, hid awaiting the family's return and then attacked her in her bed.

Did they expect to find the 6yo or the older sister? Does a 6yo respond to a gun at her throat and being told to keep quiet? Perhaps that's why the head bash. Each piece of evidence is important.

The perp(s) were not risk averse.
 
Rope in paper bag and JBR cowgirl photo:

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=60226&postcount=4"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - The Truth about Judge Julie Carnes' Decision.Stun Gun/Rope/Bag/Door/Lights/Knots/Bat[/ame]
 
Hmm from the bag she said?? Interesting.

The Rs said they didn't recognise it, so I'm thinking the rope in the photo might have been a prop provided by the photographer.

Yes, and they didn't recognize their OWN pineapple bowl, kleenex box...etc....either.
 
bed44.jpeg


Notice the pink pajama top is fluffed up? If JonBenet's pillow and head had been lying on top of the shirt, then it should have been smashed down.

IMO, JonBenet was not asleep when she got into bed...perhaps she placed the pillow where it was found and she grabbed her blanket and either went downstairs or to Burke's room.
 
It matters a whole lot where she was killed, as it will indicate who the killer was/wasn't. For example, rope fibers in her bed does not indicate RDI as there's no scenario I've so far heard that includes the rope found in JAR's bedroom. On the other hand, IDI would carry a rope to enter via the balcony. This could mean that the IDI had possibly entered the house earlier, written the RN, hid awaiting the family's return and then attacked her in her bed.

Did they expect to find the 6yo or the older sister? Does a 6yo respond to a gun at her throat and being told to keep quiet? Perhaps that's why the head bash. Each piece of evidence is important.

The perp(s) were not risk averse.

JB did not have an older sister. She had an older HALF-sister who did not lived in the Boulder house. Not sure MR ever lived in that house.
IDI had no way of knowing who was sleeping in rooms near JB. JB's room itself had an extra bed, in which her grandmother or other guests sometimes slept. Pretty foolish to climb up on the balcony (and THAT would make some noise), not knowing if the door was open and who might be sleeping close to JB. She may not have even been there- she sometimes slept in her brother's room.
 
From IRMI, by Steve Thomas:
“I (Thomas) retrieved one sample package, a fifty-foot length of white Stansport 32-strand, 3/16-inch woven cord that I had bought. Van Tassell (sp) pulled the cord out, frayed an end, held it against the end of the neck ligature, and said, ‘Look.’ The soft white braid and the inner weave appeared identical. ‘I think this is the same cord,’ he said.”

So if that is correct (and the pictures seem to support it), the cord used had two separate parts: the braided outside and the woven center. With a high number of outer braided strands (32), this cord would be relatively elastic and “springy”. If you don’t happen to have any Stansport 32-strand (braided), 3/16-inch woven (center) cord lying around the house to try what I’m going to try and describe, imagine it in your mind and understand the mechanics of what happens.

When the cord is pulled and tension is placed on it, it stretches. If you cut it while it is under tension, the first portions that are cut begin pulling back into a relaxed position (their natural state while not under tension) while the remaining portions of the cord continue pulling away from the already cut portions. This all happens in a short period of time during the cut, but what you have remaining afterward is two separate pieces of cord, each with a frayed end.


How much fraying occurs is going to depend on the following variables:
  1. Distance between the two ends being pulled.
  2. Amount of tension that is placed on it (or, how much it is pulled).
  3. Length of time spent in making the cut.
This post is getting pretty long, so think about what I’ve written so far, and I’ll be back when I have time to post more. I’ll pop in and out when I can to discuss what I’ve written so far, and meanwhile I’ll be working on the next part.
.

Heyya otg.

How much give does that type of cord actually have?
 
picture.php


Here is the picture that I enhanced slightly by changing the contrast and exposure. If you look carefully on the rhs (around her shoulders) you can see slight bruising with a ripple sole pattern, like the old tennis shoes Dunlop Volleys (don't know if they were sold in the US). There are at least two partial prints overlapping slightly and perhaps a third between her shoulder blades with a different pattern.

bump for reference.
 
Yes, you're right. I stand corrected. Mike Kane did say that he was told that the knots were "not sophisticated" (I don't remember his exact wording.). That is though kind of a general statement about what he was told. But he did not say the name of any of the knots, and Van Tassel's report has not been released. I, for one, can't wait to read it (if I live that long).

And yes, the simpleness of the knots goes against what was being promoted by Ramsey representatives.
.

As Promoted by Ramsey representatives ..... have to go back through the headlines to see when the various 'promotions began'.
 
Remember when John Walsh said jbr was hanged?? It was blown off as a mistake on his part but would JW really make that mistake? This always bothered me, he seems too together to have made such a big error?

never heard that mentioned before, RTC.
 
bed44.jpeg


Notice the pink pajama top is fluffed up? If JonBenet's pillow and head had been lying on top of the shirt, then it should have been smashed down.

IMO, JonBenet was not asleep when she got into bed...perhaps she placed the pillow where it was found and she grabbed her blanket and either went downstairs or to Burke's room.

Fluffed up? Or just disturbed??
 
Heyya otg.

How much give does that type of cord actually have?

I can't say about that particular brand, but other types of cord like that (outer braid, inner weave), a lot -- compared to other types of cord, rope, etc.

Look sometime when you happen to be in a store that sells cord by the foot from a large roll: Sporting Goods, Hardware, Building Supplies. Find closest to the Stansport cord and pull out a section for comparison.
.
 
Quote -Originally Posted by RTC
Remember when John Walsh said jbr was hanged?? It was blown off as a mistake on his part but would JW really make that mistake? This always bothered me, he seems too together to have made such a big error?

This can be found at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0203/04/lkl.00.html:

WALSH: You know, we were asked to do that case a year afterward to try to help the Boulder police, you know, get a couple tips on it. But I think everybody knows that the case was compromised by bad police work in the beginning. I'm not the first one to say that and I'm a great supporter of law enforcement.

I mean, you are a detective and you go to a kidnapping of a high -- prominent family in a very wealthy area, and then, you know, police work 101, you clear the house and you clear the crime scene. She allowed the father and his friend to search the house. So he cuts down JonBenet, who is hanging down there. He compromised the crime scene, whether he had anything to do with it or he had nothing to do with it, he cut down his daughter in the crime scene with the DNA.

I think he just had the facts wrong, I have never heard of anyone else thinking she might have been hanged. An interesting thought however.
 
I can't say about that particular brand, but other types of cord like that (outer braid, inner weave), a lot -- compared to other types of cord, rope, etc.

Look sometime when you happen to be in a store that sells cord by the foot from a large roll: Sporting Goods, Hardware, Building Supplies. Find closest to the Stansport cord and pull out a section for comparison.
.

Consider also the possibility that it may have been a shoelace from a high top basketball shoe. They are very similar in weave.
000026.jpg
 
JB did not have an older sister. She had an older HALF-sister who did not lived in the Boulder house. Not sure MR ever lived in that house.
IDI had no way of knowing who was sleeping in rooms near JB. JB's room itself had an extra bed, in which her grandmother or other guests sometimes slept.

It matters not if MR was her sister or half sister, I wonder why you wanted to make that distinction? No she did not live there, but as you say IDI would not have known that. So there is a girls room (with two beds) 2 boy's rooms and a parents room. No prizes for guessing there's a 'daughter'.

Pretty foolish to climb up on the balcony (and THAT would make some noise), not knowing if the door was open and who might be sleeping close to JB. She may not have even been there- she sometimes slept in her brother's room.

I'll borrow HOTYH's expression "reading impaired" and apply it here. What I said was they may have entered the house via the balcony when the family was out. Remember the RN, (written in the house that day)??

I'm still trying to fathom why someone who knows JR's business and his name and a little about him, (even if the southern part is technically incorrect), but doesn't know the name of his daughter(s), would choose to threaten to kidnap one of these daughters and then kill her, leaving the body and getting no ransom. Either it was a big mistake on the IDI's behalf, or he deliberately laid a false trail for them meaning to kill her all along.

What part of the crime shows that murder may have been originally intended?
 
It matters not if MR was her sister or half sister, I wonder why you wanted to make that distinction? No she did not live there, but as you say IDI would not have known that. So there is a girls room (with two beds) 2 boy's rooms and a parents room. No prizes for guessing there's a 'daughter'.



I'll borrow HOTYH's expression "reading impaired" and apply it here. What I said was they may have entered the house via the balcony when the family was out. Remember the RN, (written in the house that day)??

I'm still trying to fathom why someone who knows JR's business and his name and a little about him, (even if the southern part is technically incorrect), but doesn't know the name of his daughter(s), would choose to threaten to kidnap one of these daughters and then kill her, leaving the body and getting no ransom. Either it was a big mistake on the IDI's behalf, or he deliberately laid a false trail for them meaning to kill her all along.

What part of the crime shows that murder may have been originally intended?

Murder was included as possibly on the agenda:

"You are not the only fat cat around, so dont think that killing will be difficult."

I've tried to sort this sentence out but its not easy. Killing who? Who are the other fat cats? Is the author saying he's a fat cat too? Or does the author believe that fat cats are bad and are to be killed?

Also the author threatens to kill JBR several times.

However when you consider the wrist ligature, tape over the mouth, and blanket it suggests a scenario whereby JBR was to be moved as a living captive.

Note to RDI: please spare the 'staging' stuff as I've heard it n times. The rectangular hole thru JBR's skull doesn't look anything like staging to me, OK? Neither does the deep furrow around her neck with petechial hemorrhaging. Its the real deal.
 

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