Darlie's injuries

Medea said:

What's your opinion on how and when she got the bruises?

This was my biggest sticking point in holding out the idea that it might have been possible there was an intruder...someone else on here posted that the bruises didn't look like they fit with a hand to hand struggle...which I hadn't thought of, but that makes sense. I was reacting to how deep and black they were, pretty compelling. I also didn't agree with the jury saying her son gave them to her. No way could a child his age inflict that kind of damage on an adult. The other poster floated a theory that they could have been from slamming a door on her arm, that makes some sense to me.

She could have gone home and inflicted the bruises on herself to bulk up the struggle angle...

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Medea, a couple of months ago I posted some photos of bruises I got.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63228
They were self-inflicted. I only posted them because the position, size and shape reminded me of Darlie's bruises.
Not everyone agreed that they were in any way similar.
Now, of course, it is perfectly plain that all I had to do was order those people to look harder, and hey, presto, they would have been identical! :doh:

Beyond the lack of obvious grieving (which has been contended was just indications of all people grieving differently), what struck me in her demeanor was her "courage" in putting the trauma of the attacks behind her. Again, all people handle things differently but think about the psychological impact of such an attack. IF Darlie was innocent, then she is thinking that someone, God only knows who, broke into her house and murdered her children and viciously attacked her, leaving her for dead. She doesn't know who did this or why. She has no idea if it was a random thing or if it is someone who she knew that may be coming after her. After all, if she is innocent, she really believes that the person in the black car may be stalking her. Yet, she is putting herself in the public eye. I have only seen snippets of the Silly String video and, yes, i thought it was odd that she did not show more signs of grief but, I have seen people mask grief very well until it hits them months later. What really hit me about her demeanor was a news clip of her walking into the police station and I am assuming it was around the time she was arrested because she had on the same shirt she had that mugshot taken in. The expression on her face and her overall body language was very normal. She was confident and looked very upbeat. It was the same demeanor she had in that interview, only she wasn't being interviewed. One could argue that in the interview she was putting on a strong face in spite of her grief, trying to be strong and tell people what had happened and then add that nice bit about her boys wanting everyone to be happy, in order to encourage others. But that bit I saw of her getting out of the car and walking to the police station was a somewhat unguarded moment. In that moment she had no need to be putting on a strong face or being strong for others. Yet once again she is looking happy, animated and confident. I find it extremely odd that she was able to maintain that demeanor in multiple settings/occaisions while she is thinking there is someone still out there who may be watching her, knowing she is alive and a possible witness to what they did. People who are attacked physically are usually paranoid, even if the attacker is caught. They see people around every corner. That personal violation makes a person feel vulnerable, especially someone who has lead a life that has left them unexposed to frequent violence/aggressive behaviors. It is a huge mental shock. They often are afraid to get out in public, interact with others and have a tendency to stay very close to people they trust. Yet she is still obviously strongly independent mentally as is evidenced by her body language and her actions. Putting aside the fact that she could have been grieving differently, I find it odd that she does not exhibit signs of the mentallity usually seen in victims of physical assaults.

I love the points made about her stories differing with the audiences. I had never really considered that but I do believe she had no idea that her letters would be read by anyone other than the intended person. Am betting she has a history of telling specific people the things that she knows will get the reaction she needs. Funny that her first obvious tears on the stand came when she was caught in that lie. I doubt anyone has ever caught/called her on anything in her life.
Am betting when nothing new comes out she tells everyone the reason that no new DNA was found was because they didn't allow everything to be tested and that the CCA just allowed a few things tested in order to make people think they were really doing something.

cami said:

Exactly. With a bruise like that, it's hard to believe she has no broken bones. No weapon other than a knife is mentioned so what was she beaten with? If the perp drops the knife surely he's not taking whatever he used to beat her arm with. Not logical.

I hate to speculate on the playing of the silly string video. But it was so far from what we associate with the normal greiving process, especially of a mother who's lost her children, that perhaps that's why the jury played it so often. Perhaps they were tying to find something redeeming in that video..like when Darin backs off and looks totally uncomfortable at what Darlie is doing.

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Plus, she doesn't claim to have been 'beaten'...only that she struggled...I think the 'struggle' takes place entirely on the couch, not that she 'breaks free, runs around, he grabs her, throws her into a wall, she breaks free again, he beats her with a candlestick...'

Why is he beating her at ALL anyway,when she's sound asleep and he's got a knife? Whatever bruises she has should be consistent with bruising on other people that have been HELD DOWN by force. Again, I admit I didn't read the transcripts, but I don't think a very good case by her defense was made via expert testimony that these bruises fit the pattern. They don't. They don't even fit the pattern of someone who is beaten up.

That's why I like these boards...because other people do make you think of things you never thought of...like the deepness and blackness of the bruise isn't the issue, its the size of the bruise that makes makes it not fit.

I guess it could be counter argued that whatever bruising Darlie has nobody believes her...the smaller bruises are discounted as coming from the IV and the large bruise is also discounted as being self inflicted. But, quite frankly it is HARD TO BRUISE YOURSELF in the pattern of being held down by the force of a larger person....another possible indication that Darin was not involved.

the silly string video just does nothing for me in terms of convicting her. its exhibit A in why defense attorneys telltheir clients not to talk to the media, because whatever they do, say, act, somebody will find reason to see guilt.

does anyone have any idea what her IQ is, high, medium or low?

does anyone have any idea what her IQ is, high, medium or low?[/quote]

I don't know how high or low her IQ is but I would bet that she would be considered a sociopath with homicidal tendencies.

Medea said:

the silly string video just does nothing for me in terms of convicting her. its exhibit A in why defense attorneys telltheir clients not to talk to the media, because whatever they do, say, act, somebody will find reason to see guilt.

does anyone have any idea what her IQ is, high, medium or low?

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It does nothing for me in terms of guilt either--the evidence does that. Just shows Darlie acting like a goof. One of her witnesses testifed that one day Darlie wanted to be a good wife and mother and the next she wanted to be on Knots Landing. She seems to be playing to the cameras to me. Histrionic. It is circumstantial evidence though. Darlie put herself in the public eye so she's open to be judged and critisied for her behaviour.

I don't know her IQ, I don't think she is stupid though. She never went past high school, but then neither did I. She has "street smarts" I believe.

About the grieving process, yes there are people who grieve in different manners.

But when a person displays "grieving" that is "way off the Bell curve" within human conduct, it makes one wonder why a women who saw her two sons stabbed to death would be "happy, confident" and animated.

That is not even on the bell curve........

Either is the man who "claimed" not to have killed his wife, but was "skipping" across the parking lot after the funeral services. This did not go unnoticed by her relatives. He was later charged and convicted.

Or the man who claimed that his wife killed herself, and asked if he could bring his mistress to the funeral services. Of course he was later convicted.

There is "conduct within a "curve" and not. Darlie from day one was way off and is always going to be.

Reminds me of a recent arrest: A women claimed that 23 years ago a man broke into her house and killed her husband. The "same "unknown intruder, jumped into her car a week before and assaulted her. She could not provide any information about the man. But the same man "showed" up a week later, barefoot(but of course not leaving fingerprints) as she claimed to see him wearing gloves. Also for some odd reason she "picked" up the murder weapon and "fired" at him fleeing thus explaining her fingerprints on the weapon and GSR.

She has recently been charged with the murder of her husband. The "intruder" has not been identified to this day and for some odd reason left no evidence at the scene.

Gee those "mystery" intruders know so much about evidence that they are never leaving any evidence at the scenes of terrible crimes. Just like the "intruder" in Darlie's case........

<<About the grieving process, yes there are people who grieve in different manners>>

Speaking of this, did anyone catch the replay of 20/20 on WE TV recently? It's about mothers who kill their children. Darlie was first up. They showed an interview with her in prison and she's all teary eyed while watching a home video of the boys. Then she makes the statement "there's no play book on grieving". Or something like that. It reminded of me of something someone had heard and was repeating. What really got me was when the interviewer flat out asks her if she killed those boys, she said "no". But she looked at the floor for the split second the word "no" came out of her mouth. Then she looked back at the interviewer. It's just my opinion mind you, but it's been my experience that a liar will not look directly at you when you catch them off guard.

Jeana (DP) said:

I disagree that its pure speculation because she was paid for it and she was talking to the media. You can't get better than that. If Drew Peterson is someday arrested for killing his wife Stacy, should all of his media appearances be banned from his trial?

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Whoa- I admit it has been forever since I really reviewed this case in detail- but how the h*ll did I miss that- she was paid for that video?

Blink34 said:

Whoa- I admit it has been forever since I really reviewed this case in detail- but how the h*ll did I miss that- she was paid for that video?

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Yup. Apparently, her out of town relatives needed some place to stay, so the television station paid to put them up in hotels.

Jeana (DP) said:

Yup. Apparently, her out of town relatives needed some place to stay, so the television station paid to put them up in hotels.

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SO it was not a direct payment to her but expenses for her clan?

Blink34 said:

SO it was not a direct payment to her but expenses for her clan?

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I didn't see the payment, but cash paid out to the family is payment regardless of what form it took.

My point was, she was paid for the tape, so for her to complain about it being shown is ridiculous.

DebC said:

Sorry I've taken so long to post update pictures - probs at work.
The pics are to demonstrate the length of bruising up my arm.
Now take a look at Darlie's bruising on her left arm.
http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Evidence/index.html
Defence Exhibit 84, State Exhibit 52-M and 52-N.
How do you thing she got a bruise of that LENGTH on the inside of her arm? Not from a fist, that's for sure. She either slammed a door or a drawer on her arm.
She always was her own worst enemy. Here she obviously went with her mantra "bigger is better". That's what I think anyway.

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When were bruises photographed? Asking because the color of these bruises appear to make the bruises look at a minimum 7 to 10 days old.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C458613.html
Bruises can last from days to months and usually occur in several stages. A bruise generally starts out as a pinkish-red area or as tiny red dots or blotches on the skin. The bruise may be very small and may blend in with the texture of the skin, or it may be large, swollen, and painful. Within days to a week or so, the bruise becomes more purple. As it heals, it becomes brownish-yellow. Generally, bruises heal and disappear within 2 to 3 weeks.


This link is a pic of a bruise about 2 weeks old:
http://www.cheezy.net/blog/archives/2007_02.php

A comparison pic of a bruise 2 weeks old and one that is new:
http://www.themikkelsens.net/sarah/pictures/070324-Bruise.jpg

I guess what I am saying is... with my experience of deaing with multiple types of bruises, contusions, hematomas, etc., 2 things glare out at me... The bruises appear to be old, and they do not appear to fit her story. As a nurse, we are taught that if the injuries do not fit the story, that we should question the validity of the story. This is why I question the validity of Darlie's story(s).:twocents:

eeyorelrn said:

When were bruises photographed? Asking because the color of these bruises appear to make the bruises look at a minimum 7 to 10 days old.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C458613.html
Bruises can last from days to months and usually occur in several stages. A bruise generally starts out as a pinkish-red area or as tiny red dots or blotches on the skin. The bruise may be very small and may blend in with the texture of the skin, or it may be large, swollen, and painful. Within days to a week or so, the bruise becomes more purple. As it heals, it becomes brownish-yellow. Generally, bruises heal and disappear within 2 to 3 weeks.


This link is a pic of a bruise about 2 weeks old:
http://www.cheezy.net/blog/archives/2007_02.php

A comparison pic of a bruise 2 weeks old and one that is new:
http://www.themikkelsens.net/sarah/pictures/070324-Bruise.jpg

I guess what I am saying is... with my experience of deaing with multiple types of bruises, contusions, hematomas, etc., 2 things glare out at me... The bruises appear to be old, and they do not appear to fit her story. As a nurse, we are taught that if the injuries do not fit the story, that we should question the validity of the story. This is why I question the validity of Darlie's story(s).:twocents:

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The bruises on the inside of her arm near the elbow look a bit old. I am more bothered by the fact that they don't appear to be bruises from a blow.

What do you think of the long bruise on the underside of her arm?

This proves nothing.

Ok, first post. Don't know if it's in the right place, don't know if anybody will see it but here goes.

I was born and raised in Garland, Tx which is right next door to Rowlett. I taught at an elementary school in Rowlett for eight years. I got married and moved away in 1994 but I was interested in this case because it happened so near where I lived and was familiar with. I've lurked around this website for a year or so reading about it. You guys are smart and I admire your knowledge!

While it seems so foreign to me that a mother could kill her children, I know that it does happen. I've been on the fence about Darlie's guilt, mainly because I just didn't want to believe that a mom would do that to her kids. I know that you have to look at evidence and it all points to her.

I know that you can inflict bruises on yourself. I banged on an ex boyfriend's door and got a hand and arm full many years ago. However, something just happened to me that opened my eyes so to speak. My son is autistic. The other day, I was trying to check a bug bite on his leg, and he kicked me. He kicked me right below my knee. Now a few days later, I have bruises down my leg to my ankle. Granted, he had on a shoe. I was sitting on the bed last night and looking at them cascading down my leg and I thought about Darlie. Her bruises could have come from the boys kicking her. Only God and the people in the house that night know what really happened.

hollyb
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.

Hollyb, I think Damon kicking her may have made some of the bruising, along with Darin grabbing her arms, and Darlie herself hitting her own arms to deepen the bruises, maybe days later. The IV's have probably played some part, too.

question about bruising..i dont notice them in the silly string video. did they fade that fast from being so dark in the hospital? maybe they werent as severe as they looked.

erinleigh said:

question about bruising..i dont notice them in the silly string video. did they fade that fast from being so dark in the hospital? maybe they werent as severe as they looked.

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Yeah those arms don't seem to be bothering her on the day of the bday party.

But in all fairness, the photos were taken on June 10th at the police dept., the bday party was on June 18th so I guess you have to make up your own mind on when they were inflicted.

from wiki answers (and i know its not the be all end all..but most websites said the about the same thing)

How long a bruise lasts can vary greatly depending on the location and severity of the trauma that caused the bruise and the health, age, and idiosyncrasies of the individual bruised. Having said that, the majority of bruises for most people will last from 1 to 4 weeks, although severe bruising can last for months.

i wish there were photos taken inbetween by media. i'd love to see when they actually faded. i need to watch the video again and see if they were at least that light brown color or if all traces were gone.
thank you for the dates btw. :0)

You can not tell ANYTHING from a bruise other then there has been some kind of trauma .All bruises have a life all on thier own not to mention the fact that every single person bruises differently its about fat,muscle,tendions,if your on medication its absurd that anyone can say weather they were self inflicted or not ..