"Who would leave children that young alone?"

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Boyz_Mum said:
I don't mean this as a self righteous thing, but after Jessica Lunsford's abduction, I did get up and check on the kids many times during the night. OCD? Most likely. (I also don't mean my other comments about leaving the kids alone in the hotel room as being self righteous and hope I don't come across that way.)

When something like the abduction of a child takes place, at home, on vacation or on their way home from school, it just makes me (personally) try to be more aware and enhances my OCD tendencies. :blowkiss:
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I think there's a difference between what you are describing which is your natural maternal OCD which kicks in when something happens and someone claiming that this is their normal "excellent parenting" routine (and that anyone who does less is a bad parent!) :)

I'm a really heavy sleeper and it does worry me that I'd sleep right through some disastrous event. It's natural sleep so what can I do? I've got an internal alarm system rigged up so that my mother who stays with us and sleeps downstairs can call me during the night if need be. It's basically just a wireless doorbell and my daughter rigged it so that it plays "It's a small world". The other tunes weren't much better... But I have this fear that my mother will take ill during the night and whilst she's suffering horribly, I'll be having sweet dreams about DisneyWorld....

Seriously, though, I do on a rare occasion waken during the night with a bad dream and then I always get up and check on my daughter.
 
Isabella said:
Was it confirmed she was at the creche at 5.30 tho? Because if your relying on Charlotte Pennington ive seen two different versions of her story.
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The time 5.30 is listed in the PJ's final report
 
rashomon said:
The time 5.30 is listed in the PJ's final report
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Rash, I've posted this twice for you now in the last couple of days.

Tea was served at 5.30pm in the creche. The nanny says all three children were there and were collected at 6pm. She says there was a large group in that night - plenty of independent witnesses I should say.

These creches require parents to book them in and out. We've always had to sign for our daughter on collection.

Two different versions of Charlotte Pennington's story doesn't mean she changed her story. Plus she wasn't the only nanny there.
 
lonetraveler said:
---
Just dropped in to check on this thread and was curious about your statement regarding "baby listening" that the McCanns arranged for their children. I was not aware that they had a method of "baby listening". What was the system? I must have missed something. I thought that they only tooks turns once in a while to go and check on the children. I was not aware that they had a method of actually "hearing" the children. Baby Monitor? What?
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You are correct - that was there method of "baby listening"
 
Jayelles said:
You know, hindsight is a wonderful thing but as you say, if you google hotel + baby listening you'll get tons of hits. It's really common in Europe. There are different ways of doing it. Some places rent the parents a baby monitor, but these are only suitable within a small range. Others send a member of staff around to walk around and listen at the door of the rooms or apartment. You often see this in hotels. They mark up a sheet on a clipboard to say they've checked - we've used this ourselves on vacation. You tell reception where you'll be (e.g. in the bar)and if they hear a baby crying, they contact you there. What the McCanns did was a step up from this since they actually went into the apartment to check the kids. The irony is, if they had used the hotels baby listening service, Madeleine may not have been discovered missing for another couple of hours and yet many people would have found their arrangements more acceptable!
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Of course if the McCanns had used the resorts minding service..there would been no chance she could have gone missing at ALL.
 
Jayelles said:
Well all I can say is that we all have different opinions about what makes good parents and let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I think the key is that the McCanns didn't think their kids would be in danger. I read a lengthy article about this written by a female lawyer whose name escapes me. It was an excellent article and it argued the ins and outs from a legal and sociological standpoint. The bottom line is that as parents, we take risk assessments all the time. We decide whether it's safe for our children to cross a road on their own, whether it's safe for them to play in the graden unsupervised, safe to come home from a friend's house after dark, etc.

The McCanns weren't the only parents who put their kids to bed and went to the restaurant, nor will they be the last. I understand that British and Dutch parents do this habitually on vacation. At the end of the day, with hindsight, they made a bad judgement and they have to live with the consequences. However, there is really nothing to be gained from beating them up about it day in and day out for years after the event. The only thing that will achieve is to make the beater-up feel better I suppose.

I've found peoples' reactions to this fascinating at times. I never realised that there were so many self-righteous parents! I remember one "lady" (I do use the term loosely) and I think she was either on this forum or the Mirror forum. Her kids weren't babies but she was so keen to demonstrate what a great mother she was that she claimed she got up and went into their bedrooms to check they were ok several times every night. Imagine that? Personally I found it a bit OCD and I can't imagine the lack of sleep would help her energy levels for good parenting either OTOH, she might have been exaggerating - a little :rolleyes:
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Well..on the other hand..she has her children with her right now. I know which i think is the better parent. MOO
 
Jayelles said:
Rash, I've posted this twice for you now in the last couple of days.

Tea was served at 5.30pm in the creche. The nanny says all three children were there and were collected at 6pm. She says there was a large group in that night - plenty of independent witnesses I should say.

These creches require parents to book them in and out. We've always had to sign for our daughter on collection.

Two different versions of Charlotte Pennington's story doesn't mean she changed her story. Plus she wasn't the only nanny there.
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Erm in one story she said she saw Madeleine at lunch. The other she said she saw her at tea time.

WoW..these people can give as many differing stories as they want..and still..they "havent changed there story".

With all respect Charlotte Pennington liked to drink and was dismissed for it. Who knows if she remembers what she really saw.
 
Isabella said:
Erm in one story she said she saw Madeleine at lunch. The other she said she saw her at tea time.
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You have sources for this?

More likely in one story it said she saw Madeleine at lunch and in another it said she saw Madeleine at tea? You don't think one of the Portuguese tabloids reporting it maybe got the translation wrong? You don't make allowances for discrepancies like this when there's different languages involved?

WoW..these people can give as many differing stories as they want..and still..they "havent changed there story".
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Don't you know that "these people" often just give ONE interview which is then picked up by several newspapers? Jane Tanner's interview with Panorama was reported in several tabloids but she didn't speak to any of them.

Newspapers often get things wrong. Many years ago, I was in a car accident. The local newspaper reported it and said that I had been a passenger in the car and that I had been injured. In fact, I was driving the car and I was unhurt. I didn't speak to any journalists and was very surprised to see the article.

With all respect Charlotte Pennington liked to drink and was dismissed for it. Who knows if she remembers what she really saw.
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Are you saying she is an alchoholic or that she was "drunk on the job" - or so "out of it" that she didn't know the difference between lunch and tea?

I promise you that if and when you realise that the tabloids don't always print the truth, this case will become much easier to understand.:rolleyes:
 
Jayelles said:
You have sources for this?

More likely in one story it said she saw Madeleine at lunch and in another it said she saw Madeleine at tea? You don't think one of the Portuguese tabloids reporting it maybe got the translation wrong? You don't make allowances for discrepancies like this when there's different languages involved?



Don't you know that "these people" often just give ONE interview which is then picked up by several newspapers? Jane Tanner's interview with Panorama was reported in several tabloids but she didn't speak to any of them.

Newspapers often get things wrong. Many years ago, I was in a car accident. The local newspaper reported it and said that I had been a passenger in the car and that I had been injured. In fact, I was driving the car and I was unhurt. I didn't speak to any journalists and was very surprised to see the article.



Are you saying she is an alchoholic or that she was "drunk on the job" - or so "out of it" that she didn't know the difference between lunch and tea?

I promise you that if and when you realise that the tabloids don't always print the truth, this case will become much easier to understand.:rolleyes:
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For the record it wasnt the Portugese press. She gave one interview one of the tabloids where she dreamed of being a fairy. I guess it takes all sorts :rolleyes: and in that interview she stated that she last saw Madeleine at teatine. Some time later she was interviewed on the Dispatches programme where she said she last saw her at Lunch. Now this was two interviews to BRITISH media..and so no translation problems at all.

As for the drunk thing..she was dismissed from Mark Warners because of drink problems.

To clarify what i have just put..i have enclosed a link..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html

People can make up there own mind on Charlotte Pennington and how truthful they think she is :)
 
Isabella said:
For the record it wasnt the Portugese press. She gave one interview one of the tabloids where she dreamed of being a fairy. I guess it takes all sorts :rolleyes: and in that interview she stated that she last saw Madeleine at teatine. Some time later she was interviewed on the Dispatches programme where she said she last saw her at Lunch. Now this was two interviews to BRITISH media..and so no translation problems at all.

As for the drunk thing..she was dismissed from Mark Warners because of drink problems.

To clarify what i have just put..i have enclosed a link..

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id70.html

People can make up there own mind on Charlotte Pennington and how truthful they think she is :)
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What she is quoted as saying is that she lasting saw them McCanns as a family at lunchtime.

This McCannfiles website appears to be anti-McCann, not unbiased. Unfortunately, the Dispatches programme is not available on YouTube. I did have it saved on my skybox but it was deleted when we had a repair done to it earflier this year.

Fortunately, the Creche check-in records are part of the police files. In my experience, parents have to sign their children out and the time is recorded. So I imagine there will be a record of Madeleine's drop off and collection times to corroborate the nanny testimonies.

105 to 118—Sign-in/check-in Warner/crèche lists
 
Jayelles said:
What she is quoted as saying is that she lasting saw them McCanns as a family at lunchtime.

This McCannfiles website appears to be anti-McCann, not unbiased. Unfortunately, the Dispatches programme is not available on YouTube. I did have it saved on my skybox but it was deleted when we had a repair done to it earflier this year.

Fortunately, the Creche check-in records are part of the police files. In my experience, parents have to sign their children out and the time is recorded. So I imagine there will be a record of Madeleine's drop off and collection times to corroborate the nanny testimonies.

105 to 118—Sign-in/check-in Warner/crèche lists
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No..on dispatches she said she last SAW Madeleine at lunch time. Not that that was the last time she saw her as a family. I had already said this a few days ago and from the link...its obvious im not the only one who saw this.

And my experiences are very different. On the occassions i have let my step daughter go to the hotel kids clubs i have never had to sign anything. In fact i wasnt even asked her name or mine for that matter.

I can not help it if the McCann Files site is supposedly biased. Any site that prints things with facts that dispute the McCanns version is apparently biased. On the other hand it could be said..that a lot of people in this country think the parents know what happened ..and want to keep a check on the lies told.
Charlotte Pennington IMO is a fantasist who likes to be in the centre of attention. MOO
 
Isabella said:
No..on dispatches she said she last SAW Madeleine at lunch time. Not that that was the last time she saw her. I had already said this a few days ago and from the link...its obvious im not the only one who saw this.
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I cannot make sense of this. What is the difference between "she last saw Madeleine" and "the last time she saw her"?

And my experiences are very different. On the occassions i have let my step daughter go to the hotel kids clubs i have never had to sign anything. In fact i wasnt even asked her name or mine for that matter.

Charlotte Pennington IMO is a fantasist who likes to be in the centre of attention. MOO
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I have always had to sign for my children from the creches on holiday. Clearly we have very different holiday experiences. I remember signing for my son and older daughter in Spain as far back as 1992 and even at Butlins in Ayr in 1987. Shopper's creches too. They always have a booking in and out system - otherwise how would they know who was there in the event of a fire? I think this is a fundamental/standard requirement and has to do with fire regulations not to mention safety regulations and child protection. I'd find any resort which did not require documentary checking in and out of little children to be suspect. That they didn't even ask your names is quite shocking actually.
 
As I said - the PJs have recorded the sign in records for the creche so I'm sure they are satisfied with the witness testimonies otherwise we'd have heard about that for sure.
 
Jayelles said:
I cannot make sense of this. What is the difference between "she last saw Madeleine" and "the last time she saw her"?



I have always had to sign for my children from the creches on holiday. Clearly we have very different holiday experiences. I remember signing for my son and older daughter in Spain as far back as 1992 and even at Butlins in Ayr in 1987. Shopper's creches too. They always have a booking in and out system - otherwise how would they know who was there in the event of a fire? I think this is a fundamental/standard requirement and has to do with fire regulations not to mention safety regulations and child protection. I'd find any resort which did not require documentary checking in and out of little children to be suspect. That they didn't even ask your names is quite shocking actually.
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You said..that one article was that she last saw Madeline at lunch and that the other article was the last time she saw them as a family. What i m eant was that wasnt the case. She was asked when was the last time she had seen Madeline in both articles..and gave different times.

Regarding the Dispatches programme - no its not on You Tube now but i know it definetly was shortly after the programme as a lot of people watched it on the forum I was on at the time. I believe it was in about 5 parts. They had 3 ex cops there..and they stated that in there Opinion it didnt happen as the McCanns allege it did. They also made a big point out of how dark it was in that area and about the drains around Praia de Luz.

And about my holidays. I have been to Dominican Republic ( numerous times ) 5 star hotels in Spain and Cyprus and was never asked for my step daughters name. The kids would be in a big room and u would just drop them off and fetch them later. And yes..it was stupid the way they did it because there could have been a fire etc.

Regarding the time log...that would depend on who signed the log on how credible it was IMO. If it was the Wanna be fairy...then IMO not very.
 
Isabella said:
Of course if the McCanns had used the resorts minding service..there would been no chance she could have gone missing at ALL.
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Assuming this was a stranger abduction, YES the child would still be alive. I don't believe that to be the case though.
 
Jayelles said:
As I said - the PJs have recorded the sign in records for the creche so I'm sure they are satisfied with the witness testimonies otherwise we'd have heard about that for sure.
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Oh and Amaral's documentary also showed screen captures of the checking in and out register of the childrens' creche showing the entries for Madeleine on the day she went missing.

(That would be the checking in and out register that Isabella says she's never known to be used on her vacations! :rolleyes:)
 
Jayelles said:
Oh and Amaral's documentary also showed screen captures of the checking in and out register of the childrens' creche showing the entries for Madeleine on the day she went missing.

(That would be the checking in and out register that Isabella says she's never known to be used on her vacations! :rolleyes:)
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It has never been used on my vacations BUT...then again i have never been to a Mark Warner holiday..i tend to choose my hols on places we can spend a lot of time together..as a FAMILY..after all its a family holiday..i dont pick resorts dependant on places where i can drop them off for a week and then do my own thing..
:rolleyes:

ANd actually regarding the date for the day in question..ive heard varying things about that ;)
 
Isabella said:
It has never been used on my vacations BUT...then again i have never been to a Mark Warner holiday..i tend to choose my hols on places we can spend a lot of time together..as a FAMILY..after all its a family holiday..i dont pick resorts dependant on places where i can drop them off for a week and then do my own thing..
:rolleyes:

ANd actually regarding the date for the day in question..ive heard varying things about that ;)
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Sign in registers are only as good as the people (usually not highly skilled employees) monitoring them or the people signing them (parents who may be distracted.)

It's why we use a computerized system at school--your child is literally logged in and logged out by an employee at a computer. There's no signing on just a piece of paper with no verification by anything or anyone else.

Most of the larger churches around here use a similar system or card key system to put children in nursery as well.
 
Texana said:
Sign in registers are only as good as the people (usually not highly skilled employees) monitoring them or the people signing them (parents who may be distracted.)

It's why we use a computerized system at school--your child is literally logged in and logged out by an employee at a computer. There's no signing on just a piece of paper with no verification by anything or anyone else.

Most of the larger churches around here use a similar system or card key system to put children in nursery as well.
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There are various possibilties really...ie another child was taken to the creche and signed in as Madeleine...ie Tanners child didnt get signed in that afternoon...there are also rumours that the logs could been faked...and also..if Charlotte Pennington is involved who knows.

IF...whatever happened actually happened on the 3rd IMO it was when Payne was there or thereabouts. I still kinda think it was the 1st tho.
 
...i have to say,it is more common in europe at least when i grew up ,my parents would leave me and my little sister alone ....i was maybe 6 and she was 2,if they'd go to a neighbors house and they would'nt return until 2 or so in the morning....i could have never done that when i had became a mom,i keep thinking what where they thinking...i guess it just felt safe to them...
 
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