ZFG Civil Case: Casey's Deposition #2

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(snipped)Perhaps Casey is a lying evil witch who would not have CARED if she had ruined ZG's life, but ZG's life was nevertheless (1) not ruined and (2) damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions. Why can't both of these things be true?
(snipped)

Perhaps I have lost something in translation. (damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions)? She's not claiming against her own past, pre OCA's accusations. She's claiming against what OCA alleged against her. Your statement is the equivalent to saying if a rape victim has a past of being loose sexually, and she's raped, a rape couldn't have taken place. Think about it.

I agree. I normally agree with AZlawyer, but this time, I'm not. Maybe I just can't see this like a lawyer can, but Casey started all of this carp by stealing ZG's name and using it to further her lie. It's like some people just want Zenaida to go away because she's not pure and innocent, and because Casey only used her name and at that, didn't even use her middle name. Case closed. Casey is innocent again because only two parts of Zenaida's name was used and because Zenaida is a lowlife to begin with, no harm done.

Did I fall into some alternate universe or something where Casey just can't do any wrong? I can't believe this attitude is coming up again. I can't believe this poor woman who tried to clear her name after Casey muddied it up is now being targeted as someone who isn't even worthy of standing up to a murderer, liar, and a thief. Wow. I can't believe this is coming from someone I used to respect, too...

Maybe I just don't understand the law. I don't know. But this thread is just turning my stomach at the moment.
 
Everyone needs to put themselves in ZG's shoes. Can anyone even imagine having that name in the orlando area?

I'd be soooo embarrassed using a credit card at Target!
Must be awful having your name associated with a crime. That is why siblings of infamous criminals tend to change their names.

BBM

Omg! :floorlaugh:

It would be Target! Lol!
 
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At this point you are quoting information I do not yet know to be true. I have read Greene's comments but he is as nasty as lawyer as I have ever read, so I hold little faith in his comments.

WAS there another Zenaida Gonzales that the LE investigated to the extent they looked at this person who was connected to Sawgrass? And will her face be obliterated from the memory of the public now the trial has been held and she was not brought into it? We've already seen the smearing of George and Kronk, neither of whom were complete innocents, and ZG has less of a chance now of improving her quality of life since this case that any other person - besides OCA, who doesn't deserve it anyhow.

It may in fact be enough or all that ZG will get is a public acknowledgement from OCA and probably via her lawyer since she seems to be a complete wimp at standing on her own two feet by herself, but if ZG gets that public announcement, it may be enough for both her and her lawyers.

But as court cases go, there always seems to be a financial reward attached also. Isn't that what litigation is always about?

As far as the Sheriff's Reports reveal, LE didn't investigate this ZG at all--they just asked her to sign a statement saying she was not involved. As far as her face being remembered, this is my point: her face was brought in by her voluntary media appearances, not by Casey (lying evil witch that she is).

[/B]

You don't think this is a pretty freaking small point compared to what OCA pulled?

Yes. :)

It's not a matter of comparison. I think it's huge for an attorney, a man who represents our legal system, to intentionally tell mistruths when filing a suit...just like I was appalled by the mistruths told by Baez. It has nothing to do with if what Casey did was worse. We know it was. That doesn't make Morgan right.

And yes to this part too. :)

FCA should make this right. Write a long letter of apology to ZG for lying. She can keep it classy and say she didn't intend for anyone to get hurt by her lies. She's deeply sorry, please forgive her.

Countersuing ZG doesnt' make it better.

It seems the A's like "WINNING" at any expense. The highest expense being their integrity.

The countersuit was idiotic, I agree.

(snipped)Perhaps Casey is a lying evil witch who would not have CARED if she had ruined ZG's life, but ZG's life was nevertheless (1) not ruined and (2) damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions. Why can't both of these things be true?
(snipped)

Perhaps I have lost something in translation. (damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions)? She's not claiming against her own past, pre OCA's accusations. She's claiming against what OCA alleged against her. Your statement is the equivalent to saying if a rape victim has a past of being loose sexually, and she's raped, a rape couldn't have taken place. Think about it.[/QUOTE]

Actually, for a defamation suit, she absolutely is comparing her own past, pre-accusations, against her current situation. If her current situation is not appreciably worse than her prior situation, and/or if she or her lawyers made it worse for herself, then that means she is not entitled to damages. The comparison between her former and current situations is, in fact, exactly how damages are determined.
 
There was no picture of ZG on the sawgrass card, it was just a piece of paper the manager filled out.

I feel that if Z?G had not presented herself to the media as THE ZFG, even pretending to have the F in her name, and had not falsely told the media that Casey knew the names of her children and what kind of car she drove, we'd have never seen or heard of her again. It's like she ran through town waving her arms in the air screaming "look at me, look at me" and then crying because people were looking at her. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Of course her picture was not on the card but they would have had her info and found her, then took a picture. Not that hard!

I had not heard that she had falsely told the media that Casey knew the names of her children. I guess we could go back and forth all day comparing who did what worse, but in my book KC wins that battle every time.
 
(snipped)Perhaps Casey is a lying evil witch who would not have CARED if she had ruined ZG's life, but ZG's life was nevertheless (1) not ruined and (2) damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions. Why can't both of these things be true?

I agree. I normally agree with AZlawyer, but this time, I'm not. Maybe I just can't see this like a lawyer can, but Casey started all of this carp by stealing ZG's name and using it to further her lie. It's like some people just want Zenaida to go away because she's not pure and innocent, and because Casey only used her name and at that, didn't even use her middle name. Case closed. Casey is innocent again because only two parts of Zenaida's name was used and because Zenaida is a lowlife to begin with, no harm done.

Did I fall into some alternate universe or something where Casey just can't do any wrong? I can't believe this attitude is coming up again. I can't believe this poor woman who tried to clear her name after Casey muddied it up is now being targeted as someone who isn't even worthy of standing up to a murderer, liar, and a thief. Wow. I can't believe this is coming from someone I used to respect, too...

Maybe I just don't understand the law. I don't know. But this thread is just turning my stomach at the moment.

I won't speak for AZ, but I didn't interpret her post as saying anything like that. The point I took away from it was that yes, KC lied and the police ended up calling on this lady, and then she went on tv and denied being the kidnapper, and both of these instances contributed to her being associated with this case. Maybe not equally, but still both were contributing factors. I happen to agree with that. Now, having said that, I still hope that ZG wins against KC big time. I really just wish M&M would hold off until after KC's lying case had been resolved. If they would just do that, they would take away KC's need to plead the fifth. IMO, they would be serving her better to wait rather than to push for this case to be heard while KC still has a pending case on the lying charges.
 
(snipped)Perhaps Casey is a lying evil witch who would not have CARED if she had ruined ZG's life, but ZG's life was nevertheless (1) not ruined and (2) damaged to some extent by ZG's own actions. Why can't both of these things be true?

I agree. I normally agree with AZlawyer, but this time, I'm not. Maybe I just can't see this like a lawyer can, but Casey started all of this carp by stealing ZG's name and using it to further her lie. It's like some people just want Zenaida to go away because she's not pure and innocent, and because Casey only used her name and at that, didn't even use her middle name. Case closed. Casey is innocent again because only two parts of Zenaida's name was used and because Zenaida is a lowlife to begin with, no harm done.

Did I fall into some alternate universe or something where Casey just can't do any wrong? I can't believe this attitude is coming up again. I can't believe this poor woman who tried to clear her name after Casey muddied it up is now being targeted as someone who isn't even worthy of standing up to a murderer, liar, and a thief. Wow. I can't believe this is coming from someone I used to respect, too...

Maybe I just don't understand the law. I don't know. But this thread is just turning my stomach at the moment.

Aedrys, I don't mean to turn your stomach. Let's look at what we agree on:

1. Casey started this by using ZG's name to further her lie;
2. The fact that Casey only used ZG's first and last name does not make her innocent;
3. The alleged fact that ZG was a lowlife to begin with doesn't excuse Casey's disgustingly immoral behavior;
4. However "low" ZG is, she is better than a murdering lying thief and is worthy of standing up to Casey or any other murdering lying thief she might run across.

OK? :)

Now, my point is just this: Despite the fact that Casey is a murdering lying thief who used ZG's first and last names and hoped that ZG or any other ZGs might be blamed for her (Casey's) despicable actions, ZG (1) might not have suffered much in the way of LEGALLY RECOVERABLE DAMAGES and (2) absolutely did make things worse for herself by going on TV and allowing her lawyers to use a fake name for the lawsuit and tell falsehoods about how Casey knew all the details of her life.
 
Everyone needs to put themselves in ZG's shoes. Can anyone even imagine having that name in the orlando area? I'd be soooo embarrassed using a credit card at Target!

Must be awful having your name associated with a crime. That is why siblings of infamous criminals tend to change their names.

BBM. I agree with you.

And to add, ZG's life may have not been ruined, but it was definitely impacted in a very negative way that will last for a very long time.

I personally can't get past the ZG visit to Sawgrass. IMO. based on what we know of FCA I cannot accept at all that this was a coincidence.
 
Aedrys, I don't mean to turn your stomach. Let's look at what we agree on:

1. Casey started this by using ZG's name to further her lie;
2. The fact that Casey only used ZG's first and last name does not make her innocent;
3. The alleged fact that ZG was a lowlife to begin with doesn't excuse Casey's disgustingly immoral behavior;
4. However "low" ZG is, she is better than a murdering lying thief and is worthy of standing up to Casey or any other murdering lying thief she might run across.

OK? :)

Now, my point is just this: Despite the fact that Casey is a murdering lying thief who used ZG's first and last names and hoped that ZG or any other ZGs might be blamed for her (Casey's) despicable actions, ZG (1) might not have suffered much in the way of LEGALLY RECOVERABLE DAMAGES and (2) absolutely did make things worse for herself by going on TV and allowing her lawyers to use a fake name for the lawsuit and tell falsehoods about how Casey knew all the details of her life.


OK, ZG said she recieved death threats after KC accused someone with two parts of her name of kidnapping Caylee. Now I don't know about you, but if I ever recieved any sort of a death threat, I would be scared beyond belief. How do you put a price tag on your sense of security? What is that worth to you?
 
Oh hey, I agree. The reason is because she HOPED people (maybe even LE) would be confused and blame this woman for kidnapping Caylee!! My point is just that (1) this did not, in fact, ruin ZG's life, despite Casey's fervent desires to the contrary, and (2) any damage to ZG's life was caused as much or more by her own and her lawyer's behaviors than by Casey's evil lies.
I'm missing something. How did her lawyers ruin her life?
 
Aedrys, I don't mean to turn your stomach. Let's look at what we agree on:

1. Casey started this by using ZG's name to further her lie;
2. The fact that Casey only used ZG's first and last name does not make her innocent;
3. The alleged fact that ZG was a lowlife to begin with doesn't excuse Casey's disgustingly immoral behavior;
4. However "low" ZG is, she is better than a murdering lying thief and is worthy of standing up to Casey or any other murdering lying thief she might run across.

OK? :)

Now, my point is just this: Despite the fact that Casey is a murdering lying thief who used ZG's first and last names and hoped that ZG or any other ZGs might be blamed for her (Casey's) despicable actions, ZG (1) might not have suffered much in the way of LEGALLY RECOVERABLE DAMAGES and (2) absolutely did make things worse for herself by going on TV and allowing her lawyers to use a fake name for the lawsuit and tell falsehoods about how Casey knew all the details of her life.


Yes, agree with you all the way down until we get to this falsehoods stuff. Where are you getting this stuff from? What did I miss?

I was reading OCA's texts from the 16th and 17th yesterday and she was telling her friend to be on the lookout for a silver car that was the Nanny's. So there was no silver car? Is that one of the things you are saying?
 
OK, ZG said she recieved death threats after KC accused someone with two parts of her name of kidnapping Caylee. Now I don't know about you, but if I ever recieved any sort of a death threat, I would be scared beyond belief. How do you put a price tag on your sense of security? What is that worth to you?

Good question. That's why I think she should have focused on mental distress damages (and should have been advised to see a psychologist to substantiate those damages) instead of focusing on economic damages.

I'm missing something. How did her lawyers ruin her life?

I never said anything of the sort. I don't think there has been any indication that her life has been ruined by anyone. But, to the extent she has suffered damages from people thinking she might really have been Casey's nanny, these damages were caused in part by her attorneys (1) falsely claiming in legal papers that her name was Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez, and (2) falsely claiming in the media that ZG's life "matched" numerous details provided by Casey to LE, including type of vehicle, names of kids, etc. These falsehoods might have led people who were not paying too much attention to think "well, maybe she is 'the' ZFG after all."
 
Aedrys, I don't mean to turn your stomach. Let's look at what we agree on:

1. Casey started this by using ZG's name to further her lie;
2. The fact that Casey only used ZG's first and last name does not make her innocent;
3. The alleged fact that ZG was a lowlife to begin with doesn't excuse Casey's disgustingly immoral behavior;
4. However "low" ZG is, she is better than a murdering lying thief and is worthy of standing up to Casey or any other murdering lying thief she might run across.

OK? :)

Now, my point is just this: Despite the fact that Casey is a murdering lying thief who used ZG's first and last names and hoped that ZG or any other ZGs might be blamed for her (Casey's) despicable actions, ZG (1) might not have suffered much in the way of LEGALLY RECOVERABLE DAMAGES and (2) absolutely did make things worse for herself by going on TV and allowing her lawyers to use a fake name for the lawsuit and tell falsehoods about how Casey knew all the details of her life.

It's possible that (1) could be right as I am not sure about the law on this and exactly how much damage would have to be proven in a civil case. I just don't know about (2). I haven't heard any of that until now. Why didn't that come out when this started? Why are we just hearing this now? Seems awfully convenient for Casey that now disparaging things are coming out about ZG. Do we know for sure that these things happened, or is all of this coming out of Greene's mouth? Lawyers do make mistakes. It happens. Maybe the middle name was unintentional in those papers. I don't know, but I'm not going slay Morgan for something like that. Maybe he thought that was her full name and stupidly didn't check her out enough at first before filing those papers. It happens, and he admitted it was a mistake.

As for the falsehoods, this is surely the first I've heard about that. I don't know what to think about it. Who knows, maybe a lot of information was left at Sawgrass, and ZG thought Casey probably used it. Wouldn't that be a fair assumption since Casey hardly, if ever, talked to the media? Who knows what Casey said to her lawyers or family that didn't make it into the media. For all we know, she was using all of that info and more that didn't make it into the media for all of us to know about. Or like I said, maybe Zenaida assumed that Casey used it. Why is that a bad assumption? All Casey does is lie. Who is to say she didn't use those details at some point to support her lie? Is there solid, and I mean SOLID proof from Casey's mouth that all she used was Zenaida's name? I don't see that. I only see other people talking and saying Casey didn't do it, just like her trial. Her lies are labrynthian in nature, endless, complicated, twisted. I mean seriously, how long did it take us here to wade through Casey's lies, her family's lies, and so on? Years. I'm sure Zenaida didn't have the means to run down every one of Casey's lies and figure out who said what when. God, we still argue about who said what when here, FGS!'

I just don't view ZG as a money hungry, fame obsessed lowlife who sees Casey Anthony and dollar signs in her eyes. Maybe she did do some damage to herself, I don't know. But I'm not willing to throw her out the window either. The fact is that Casey used her name and got her involved in this case. I know I'd want to clear my name if someone used it in reference to the kidnapping of a three year old! What was she supposed to do, say nothing and let it go? I know I wouldn't have. Who knows. Only the court will decide if her case has any merit or not. I'm going to wait to see what the court says, and with 60 uses of the 5th amendment by Casey, I just don't see this going Casey's way.
 
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Yes, agree with you all the way down until we get to this falsehoods stuff. Where are you getting this stuff from? What did I miss?

I was reading OCA's texts from the 16th and 17th yesterday and she was telling her friend to be on the lookout for a silver car that was the Nanny's. So there was no silver car? Is that one of the things you are saying?

Yes. I am also saying that when her lawyers (and ZG) went on TV and said that Casey had provided information about ZG to LE, including the type of car she drove and the names of her kids, that those statements were false. IMO it is perfectly possible that ZG was genuinely and innocently confused into believing that Casey had provided such details based on her meeting with LE, but the lawyers had a greater obligation to check out the truth of their statements before repeating them on television.
 
I know, it's unbelievable. I hope we never see anything like it again. What a horrible legacy for an innocent child - "She made so many people wealthy and famous with her tragic death....oh, what was that baby's name again?"

I blame a lot of it on the media who, in their quest for ratings, turned the horrific murder of a child into entertainment.

I'd agree, but the A's, along with the DT and their assorted group of minions, fed that beast, and rode it for all it was worth - all the while with legal and PR direction I'm sure, because I don't think the A's were savvy enough to navigate through the past 3 years themselves. The media would have moved onto something else, if it ever ran out of "bombshell". Bottom feeders all of them.

ETA: Just relistened to the Larry King Show that the A's were on - CA states at least two times that LE focused on the wrong ZG - and that this woman was not the babysitter OCA said had taken Caylee.

I'm not sure how this will work out - I can see pro and con on both sides.
 
I won't speak for AZ, but I didn't interpret her post as saying anything like that. The point I took away from it was that yes, KC lied and the police ended up calling on this lady, and then she went on tv and denied being the kidnapper, and both of these instances contributed to her being associated with this case. Maybe not equally, but still both were contributing factors. I happen to agree with that. Now, having said that, I still hope that ZG wins against KC big time. I really just wish M&M would hold off until after KC's lying case had been resolved. If they would just do that, they would take away KC's need to plead the fifth. IMO, they would be serving her better to wait rather than to push for this case to be heard while KC still has a pending case on the lying charges.


Unless this is a card M&M is playing and never intended to take this to trial at all and are looking for an out of court settlement. :waitasec:
 
Yes. I am also saying that when her lawyers (and ZG) went on TV and said that Casey had provided information about ZG to LE, including the type of car she drove and the names of her kids, that those statements were false. IMO it is perfectly possible that ZG was genuinely and innocently confused into believing that Casey had provided such details based on her meeting with LE, but the lawyers had a greater obligation to check out the truth of their statements before repeating them on television.

So what type of car was she driving and did it have NY license plates? I understood it was not her car?
 
It's possible that (1) could be right as I am not sure about the law on this and exactly how much damage would have to be proven in a civil case. I just don't know about (2). I haven't heard any of that until now. Why didn't that come out when this started? Why are we just hearing this now? Seems awfully convenient for Casey that now disparaging things are coming out about ZG. Do we know for sure that these things happened, or is all of this coming out of Greene's mouth? Lawyers do make mistakes. It happens. Maybe the middle name was unintentional in those papers. I don't know, but I'm not going slay Morgan for something like that. Maybe he thought that was her full name and stupidly didn't check her out enough at first before filing those papers. It happens, and he admitted it was a mistake.

As for the falsehoods, this is surely the first I've heard about that. I don't know what to think about it. Who knows, maybe a lot of information was left at Sawgrass, and ZG thought Casey probably used it. Wouldn't that be a fair assumption since Casey hardly, if ever talked? Who knows what Casey said to her lawyers or family that didn't make it into the media. For all we know, she was using all of that info and more that didn't make it into the media for all of us to know about. Or like I said, maybe Zenaida assumed that Casey used it. I mean seriously, how long did it take us here to wade through Casey's lies, her family's lies, and so on? Years. I'm sure Zenaida didn't have the means to run down every one of Casey's lies and figure out who said what when. God, we still argue about who said what when here, FGS!'

I just don't view ZG as a money hungry, fame obsessed lowlife who sees Casey Anthony and dollar signs in her eyes. Maybe she did do some damage to herself, I don't know. But I'm not willing to throw her out the window either. The fact is that Casey used her name and got her involved in this case. I know I'd want to clear my name if someone used it in reference to the kidnapping of a three year old! What was she supposed to do, say nothing and let it go? I know I wouldn't have. Who knows. Only the court will decide if her case has any merit or not. I'm going to wait to see what the court says, and with 60 uses of 5th amendment by Casey, I just don't see this going Casey's way.

Re the part BBM: None of this is new. My "(2)" was that ZG made things worse for herself by going on TV, and her lawyers made things worse for her by falsely stating that her name was ZFG and falsely stating that Casey had provided details about her life to LE. The false name is in the Complaint and other pleadings filed early in the case (at some point the younger attorney admitted on TV that "F" was not part of ZG's name and they then amended the caption). The false statements about the details provided by Casey to LE can be found in pretty much every interview Morgan and the younger lawyer gave, and, I think, in the Complaint as well. This is not new news.

Now, it is completely possible that all these things were mistakes. I am just saying that, as to the lawyers, such mistakes are inexcusable, and in addition these mistakes contributed to the misimpression of some that ZG really had some connection with Casey--thus the mistakes harmed ZG.

As I've said many times, ZG could have innocently believed that Casey really did use those details about her, e.g., if LE officers came to her door and said, "Are you the ZG who drives a Chevy Whatever and has kids named X and Y? We need to talk to you about some allegations made against you by a Ms. Casey Anthony." The fact that the mistakes might have been innocently made has nothing to do with the fact that they might have caused the majority of the damages sought by ZG.
 
So what type of car was she driving and did it have NY license plates? I understood it was not her car?

I don't think I've ever seen a source document that shows that Casey ever said anything about NY plates, or that shows what kind of car or plates ZG really had. All I remember reading is internet hearsay.
 
I don't see how one can say by going to the media and putting her face out there, that ZG made things worse for herself. I'm sure once her name ws released via media in the first place, ZG's family, friends, co-workers, employers etc already knew her. This poor woman should not have to change her name, move away from those familiar to her, and change her identity and start a new life as opposed to trying to clear her name.

:twocents:
 
Re the part BBM: None of this is new. My "(2)" was that ZG made things worse for herself by going on TV, and her lawyers made things worse for her by falsely stating that her name was ZFG and falsely stating that Casey had provided details about her life to LE. The false name is in the Complaint and other pleadings filed early in the case (at some point the younger attorney admitted on TV that "F" was not part of ZG's name and they then amended the caption). The false statements about the details provided by Casey to LE can be found in pretty much every interview Morgan and the younger lawyer gave, and, I think, in the Complaint as well. This is not new news.

Now, it is completely possible that all these things were mistakes. I am just saying that, as to the lawyers, such mistakes are inexcusable, and in addition these mistakes contributed to the misimpression of some that ZG really had some connection with Casey--thus the mistakes harmed ZG.

As I've said many times, ZG could have innocently believed that Casey really did use those details about her, e.g., if LE officers came to her door and said, "Are you the ZG who drives a Chevy Whatever and has kids named X and Y? We need to talk to you about some allegations made against you by a Ms. Casey Anthony." The fact that the mistakes might have been innocently made has nothing to do with the fact that they might have caused the majority of the damages sought by ZG.

BBM Actually they did exactly that. I am just re-reading the Searchable Discovery over at the hinky and from what I can see, this Zenaida Gonzales was the only one taken down to the OCSD by Investigators McBryde and Roderick to give a statement and was shown the photos of both OCA and Caylee and asked if she recognized them at all, within the first two weeks of this case breaking.
 
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