CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

Bringing along the coroner's website for reference....

http://www.sbcounty.gov/sheriff/coroner/pressrelease.asp

Thanks Fairy!

Coroner case #701202646--On 4/10/2012 at 6:05 p.m. San Bernardino Police Officers were called to respond to a call of skeletal remains found the wash area north of Highland Avenue, west of Highway 330 on Fontage Road Rd in San Bernardino. The remains are believed to be of a male with no obvious signs of trauma. However, due to the condition of the body identification was not immediately possible. The San Bernardino Police Department is also investigation this incident.[04112012 1041 SY]

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I keep wondering about one known issue in this family dynamic.

Bob thought that Fontelle had decided to drop him when he was drafted because he never saw any of her letters to him. Fontelle thought Bob had dropped her because she kept getting her letters marked "return to sender" but they had already been opened. And she never got the letters Bob sent to her.

When Bob and Fontelle put the two sides of their story together, it became clear that Georgia's aunt or uncle had been deliberately intercepting communications, which left the way open for Georgia and Bob to start a relationship.

I don't think Bob was all that happy with his three daughters. No one pays their adult children $15K each to leave them alone if they are happy with those offspring.

While I don't think Bob would have held the actions of Georgia's aunt or uncle against Georgia or their children, it had to have had some kind of effect on him. Or, at least, it would have affected me if I were in Bob's shoes.

I mean, fifty plus years of his life based on a deception and manipulation! That would sting me.

I wonder if, considering everything, Bob may have wanted to leave a greater share of his estate to Fontelle than others may have considered appropriate simply out of a feeling that they had been cheated of so many years together.

And if, when things got heated during that last family meeting, Bob may have had some very <cough> direct words for his daughters.

GrainneDhu said:

I keep wondering about one known issue in this family dynamic.

Bob thought that Fontelle had decided to drop him when he was drafted because he never saw any of her letters to him. Fontelle thought Bob had dropped her because she kept getting her letters marked "return to sender" but they had already been opened. And she never got the letters Bob sent to her.

When Bob and Fontelle put the two sides of their story together, it became clear that Georgia's aunt or uncle had been deliberately intercepting communications, which left the way open for Georgia and Bob to start a relationship.

I don't think Bob was all that happy with his three daughters. No one pays their adult children $15K each to leave them alone if they are happy with those offspring.

While I don't think Bob would have held the actions of Georgia's aunt or uncle against Georgia or their children, it had to have had some kind of effect on him. Or, at least, it would have affected me if I were in Bob's shoes.

I mean, fifty plus years of his life based on a deception and manipulation! That would sting me.

I wonder if, considering everything, Bob may have wanted to leave a greater share of his estate to Fontelle than others may have considered appropriate simply out of a feeling that they had been cheated of so many years together.

And if, when things got heated during that last family meeting, Bob may have had some very <cough> direct words for his daughters.

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This is sort of how I see it as well Grannie. I am certain that Bob was intending to add his wife to his estate planning, perhaps even the morning that he disappeared. He was meticulous with the details of his financial life-as PB alluded to in her testimony at the last trial, he kept very specific notes regarding things having to do with finances.

Actually it would be interesting to know if he communicated that information to any financial professionals responsible for maintaining his substantial assets...kwim? I can envision Bob wanting to get his ducks in a row pretty quickly after his marriage. That would have taken paperwork.

GrainneDhu said:

I keep wondering about one known issue in this family dynamic.

Bob thought that Fontelle had decided to drop him when he was drafted because he never saw any of her letters to him. Fontelle thought Bob had dropped her because she kept getting her letters marked "return to sender" but they had already been opened. And she never got the letters Bob sent to her.

When Bob and Fontelle put the two sides of their story together, it became clear that Georgia's aunt or uncle had been deliberately intercepting communications, which left the way open for Georgia and Bob to start a relationship.

I don't think Bob was all that happy with his three daughters. No one pays their adult children $15K each to leave them alone if they are happy with those offspring.

While I don't think Bob would have held the actions of Georgia's aunt or uncle against Georgia or their children, it had to have had some kind of effect on him. Or, at least, it would have affected me if I were in Bob's shoes.

I mean, fifty plus years of his life based on a deception and manipulation! That would sting me.

I wonder if, considering everything, Bob may have wanted to leave a greater share of his estate to Fontelle than others may have considered appropriate simply out of a feeling that they had been cheated of so many years together.

And if, when things got heated during that last family meeting, Bob may have had some very <cough> direct words for his daughters.

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Thanx for this post! Somehow I missed the details of how Bob and Fontelle had "missed their boat" way back then. Can you plz direct me to the articles (or posts) about this?

How was Georgia's aunt (or uncle) able to intercept the letters (incoming & outgoing)? Sounds like Bob was living with them...how did that come to be?

And I didn't think this story could get any sadder...

Cazzie said:

Thanx for this post! Somehow I missed the details of how Bob and Fontelle had "missed their boat" way back then. Can you plz direct me to the articles (or posts) about this?

How was Georgia's aunt (or uncle) able to intercept the letters (incoming & outgoing)? Sounds like Bob was living with them...how did that come to be?

And I didn't think this story could get any sadder...

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I might be able to help out here-Bob was living in a boarding house prior to moving to Camp Pendleton, I believe. Georgia's aunt ran the boarding house, IIRC. Bob would leave his letters to be mailed on the kitchen table of the boarding house (as was customary with most boarders in those days) and any mail to be received by him came to that boarding house of course.

Or didnt come. Or at least wasnt delivered.

I agree with Grannie-imagine when Bob and Fontelle reconnected. You have to know that the first subject for conversation would be how they had lost touch. It just seems a little too coincidental that Fontelle's letters were returned and Bob's were never mailed, and all that time aunt had an unmarried niece who eventually became the first Mrs. Harrod.

I feel for the girls in a way-Georgia was not Bob's first choice although they clearly had a sucessful marriage. In all of the media following the reunion, Bob was adamant that Fontelle was his first love...the one that got away. It has to sting a little, dont you think?

believe09 said:

I feel for the girls in a way-Georgia was not Bob's first choice although they clearly had a sucessful marriage. In all of the media following the reunion, Bob was adamant that Fontelle was his first love...the one that got away. It has to sting a little, dont you think?

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<respectfully snipped> BBM

It has to MORE than sting a little, IMO.

believe09 said:

I might be able to help out here-Bob was living in a boarding house prior to moving to Camp Pendleton, I believe. Georgia's aunt ran the boarding house, IIRC. Bob would leave his letters to be mailed on the kitchen table of the boarding house (as was customary with most boarders in those days) and any mail to be received by him came to that boarding house of course.

Or didnt come. Or at least wasnt delivered.

I agree with Grannie-imagine when Bob and Fontelle reconnected. You have to know that the first subject for conversation would be how they had lost touch. It just seems a little too coincidental that Fontelle's letters were returned and Bob's were never mailed, and all that time aunt had an unmarried niece who eventually became the first Mrs. Harrod.

I feel for the girls in a way-Georgia was not Bob's first choice although they clearly had a sucessful marriage. In all of the media following the reunion, Bob was adamant that Fontelle was his first love...the one that got away. It has to sting a little, dont you think?

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I'm speechless. It explains A LOT.

I have ultimate compassion for Bob and Fontelle (even before I just found out about this important nuance). :heart:

It is really tragic and shocking to think how far revenge and greed might go.

I wonder what G's aunt would think now...altho she certainly couldn't have been held accountible for anyone else's actions but her own...

Heck, I wonder what G would think now...assuming that she loved Bob and their children and grandchildren.

Maybe it's only the non-famliy who wonder these things. IDK.

believe09 said:

This is sort of how I see it as well Grannie. I am certain that Bob was intending to add his wife to his estate planning, perhaps even the morning that he disappeared. He was meticulous with the details of his financial life-as PB alluded to in her testimony at the last trial, he kept very specific notes regarding things having to do with finances.

Actually it would be interesting to know if he communicated that information to any financial professionals responsible for maintaining his substantial assets...kwim? I can envision Bob wanting to get his ducks in a row pretty quickly after his marriage. That would have taken paperwork.

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So there may be one or more professionals out there who had been asked to draw up a new will or a codicil to the old one but Bob never got a chance to sign it.

Hmmmmmm... I wonder if Bob was the sort to keep an appointment calendar and if so, who might have had access to it.

I am not a lawyer or an estate planner but as I understand it, a codicil is for minor revisions to an existing will but if there is some sort of major revision, then it's better to draw up a new will. It can get too unclear to cobble together an old will with newer codicils.

Another thought: it seems pretty obvious that Fontelle would have been a new beneficiary but perhaps Bob had also decided to add someone else as a beneficiary.

He seems to have had a close relationship with the hairdresser and, really, why not? At a very sad, difficult time in their lives, this woman made regular visits to their home to do Georgia's hair. I know from personal experience what a huge lift it is when seriously ill to get the hair done. It's not like medical treatments which are intended to help but are not always comfortable. Getting the hair done is just pure pleasure.

I may be very wrong but I think the period after Georgia's death was a time when Bob started re-evaluating his relationship to his descendants. Maybe he came to value his family of choice (Fontelle and the hairdresser) as much as or more than his family of blood.

After all, he never had to pay his family of choice to stay away from him.

Cazzie said:

Thanx for this post! Somehow I missed the details of how Bob and Fontelle had "missed their boat" way back then. Can you plz direct me to the articles (or posts) about this?

How was Georgia's aunt (or uncle) able to intercept the letters (incoming & outgoing)? Sounds like Bob was living with them...how did that come to be?

And I didn't think this story could get any sadder...

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It is somewhere back in the posts.

As I recall, what happened was that Bob was staying with Georgia's aunt and uncle while at Camp Pendleton awaiting assignment.

His mail came to their address and he would leave his outgoing mail, addressed and stamped, on their kitchen table for them to take to the postal box with their own mail. Remember, this was a time when people carried out a lot of interaction via mail, so dropping off the mail was a daily or near-daily occurrence in most households.

Fontelle wrote to Bob but her letters came back "return to sender" but, strangely enough, already opened. Usually mail marked "return to sender" was returned unopened.

The conclusion I would draw is that someone in the household was reading Fontelle's letters to Bob.

believe09 said:

I might be able to help out here-Bob was living in a boarding house prior to moving to Camp Pendleton, I believe. Georgia's aunt ran the boarding house, IIRC. Bob would leave his letters to be mailed on the kitchen table of the boarding house (as was customary with most boarders in those days) and any mail to be received by him came to that boarding house of course.

Or didnt come. Or at least wasnt delivered.

I agree with Grannie-imagine when Bob and Fontelle reconnected. You have to know that the first subject for conversation would be how they had lost touch. It just seems a little too coincidental that Fontelle's letters were returned and Bob's were never mailed, and all that time aunt had an unmarried niece who eventually became the first Mrs. Harrod.

I feel for the girls in a way-Georgia was not Bob's first choice although they clearly had a sucessful marriage. In all of the media following the reunion, Bob was adamant that Fontelle was his first love...the one that got away. It has to sting a little, dont you think?

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BBM

I wonder just how successful Bob and Georgia's marriage was. Intercepting the mail was an incredibly manipulative thing to do. Was that a family dynamic in Georgia's family or was it limited to whoever was doing the intercepting?

It is clear to me that Bob was quite devoted to Georgia. It's not easy to care for someone who is essentially bedridden and Bob was no spring chicken. But he managed to do it. He also did a lot to modify their house to make it more accessible for Georgia in her declining years.

As for Bob's daughters... well, who reading this is married to their very first love? It's pretty rare for that first relationship to last even without someone meddling with it. It isn't like Bob's daughters were dizzy teens when Bob and Fontelle met again; they were (and are) solidly middle aged women. If Bob was a devoted husband and father, why would it matter to them if he was a little carried away with his first love? I'd hope they would have the maturity to be glad their father had found something to be happy about (I know I would be so happy if my own father would find a new love...).

But even before Fontelle and Bob got back in touch, Bob had already felt pushed into paying his daughters to stay away from him. We know he gave substantial amounts of support to his children. Maybe he wanted to be left alone by them because he was tired of feeling pressured by them.

It sounds like Bob's daughters certainly felt a sting but I'm not sure it's because they suddenly realised their mother was not Bob's first love.

GrainneDhu said:

BBM

I wonder just how successful Bob and Georgia's marriage was. Intercepting the mail was an incredibly manipulative thing to do. Was that a family dynamic in Georgia's family or was it limited to whoever was doing the intercepting?

It is clear to me that Bob was quite devoted to Georgia. It's not easy to care for someone who is essentially bedridden and Bob was no spring chicken. But he managed to do it. He also did a lot to modify their house to make it more accessible for Georgia in her declining years.

As for Bob's daughters... well, who reading this is married to their very first love? It's pretty rare for that first relationship to last even without someone meddling with it. It isn't like Bob's daughters were dizzy teens when Bob and Fontelle met again; they were (and are) solidly middle aged women. If Bob was a devoted husband and father, why would it matter to them if he was a little carried away with his first love? I'd hope they would have the maturity to be glad their father had found something to be happy about (I know I would be so happy if my own father would find a new love...).

But even before Fontelle and Bob got back in touch, Bob had already felt pushed into paying his daughters to stay away from him. We know he gave substantial amounts of support to his children. Maybe he wanted to be left alone by them because he was tired of feeling pressured by them.

It sounds like Bob's daughters certainly felt a sting but I'm not sure it's because they suddenly realised their mother was not Bob's first love.

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BBM/UBBM

I agree Grainne'. I think the following is a perfect example of the maturity level of Bob's youngest daughter surrounding Bob's remarriage and his own personal happiness:

cloudajo said:

JuM didn&#8217;t see Bob much in previous 6 months yet told reporter on July 28th Bob was showing signs of dimentia... FYI, she refers to hairdresser below as POI.

• 
  [*]<snip>
  [*]And &#8220;This is heartbreaking, the distance he created was so selfish. We found out that he purchased lavish gifts for POI&#8230;&#8221;
  [*]And &#8220;In a nutshell that is what happened until we came down to meet F he wanted us to be an instant family again. The difficult situation of just losing our mother and then D pushing us away was insane. As if our emotions can be shut down and then turned back on in a snap.&#8221;

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I also agree the sting wasn't solely from their father suddenly becoming happy again with his first love, but rather a sting when the realization hit Bob had renewed interest in life with a partner, which would definately be financed with money they had hoped and expected to inherit shortly. And in the likely event their father passed away before his slightly younger second wife, their would be costs involved for caring for her as well.

I don't recall the exact details, but Bob's daughters went to great extremes to attempt to convince people their father was not the same man Fontelle was engaged to back in 1950. In so much as trying to convince people Fontelle 'created' memories for their father. It's beyond sick. I'm hoping one of the other regulars to this thread can pull up some of those posts of Bob's daughters with their efforts to convince people their father was not the same man whom Fontelle was engaged to in 1950. It's mind boggling because it's a reaction one might expect from an attached 8 year old who is having a difficult time with a parent moving on after the loss of a spouse, not something one would expect to see from a group of adult daughters well over 50.

Don't even get me started on the son in law. IMO, the secret handy man repairs were a clean up job based on whatever he did to Bob in that home. His silence and lack of cooperation is telling.... very very telling. After all this is his wifes father, a woman he claims to love, or maybe he just loves her daddy's money. I guess when ones father in law finances everything for him, his wife, his son and his grandkids one never really knows.

Everyone was accustomed to Bob being the lotto, the bank... when it looked like the bank might be closing it's doors, extreme measures had to be taken and were taken. Where is Bob?

:cow:

Cubby said:

BBM/UBBM


I don't recall the exact details, but Bob's daughters went to great extremes to attempt to convince people their father was not the same man Fontelle was engaged to back in 1950. In so much as trying to convince people Fontelle 'created' memories for their father. It's beyond sick. I'm hoping one of the other regulars to this thread can pull up some of those posts of Bob's daughters with their efforts to convince people their father was not the same man whom Fontelle was engaged to in 1950.
:cow:

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<respectfully snipped>

I do remember those ludicrous posts where they were trying to claim certain pictures were not of Mr. Harrod, and dates were wrong, and so on. I believe it was IS? I will try to find them.

Oh yes, that was pure sillieness. It didnt end there-many different claims, most of them counter to each other, evolved out of that nonsense.

I mean, pick a direction. There is much retrofitting to fit circumstances as information is solidified.

I am tired of this-the truth doesnt change. Timelines dont change. I mean, imagine for a moment that PPD had a solid timeline of events from day one and just simply gathered all of the media interviews and postings with the moving timeline-wouldnt that be something?

I doubt we are the only ones guessing as to what is accurate. My suspicion is that the only people who know the actual timeline are JeM, Bob, and the housekeeper. The only person who knows what Bob was last wearing is JeM. The only person who can solidify what frame of mind Bob was in and what his plans were for the day is JeM. If that information was solidified, I suspect the direction of this investigation would be different. It seems kind of clear at this point as to who has cooperated and who hasnt. Why wouldnt you fully cooperate? Wellllllll.....

JMVHO, no matter what mud is thrown, two people know for sure what happened and one is presumed dead.

Poor Fontelle. But most of all poor Bob. Money, gobs of money, and time have been wasted.

A lot of retrofitting is so accurate. Sums it up perfectly, imo.

IMO SIL JeM should just man up already. Go to the police and tell them exactly what happened. What is up with him allowing his wife and sister in laws to play clean up for him?

Clearly he went to his father in laws home with an agenda after a heated family meeting. His father in law has not been seen since. He has not cleared up the timeline or secret handy man jobs.

Come forward and make a deal for himself, instead of letting the ladies take care of his business and allowing his son and grandchildren to suffer.

Make a deal, say you were angry, something happened and you panicked.
Better to make that deal for yourself and come forward than wait for LE to put the finishing pieces on this case, at which time the repercussions will be A LOT worse. Not just for himself, but ALL involved.

Bob was a frail elderly man, who did not deserve whatever happened to him. It's now time for the son in law to man up and give his father in law, the man who provided so much for himself, his wife, his son and grandchildren some dignity.

If not JeM, then it is time for someone in that family to do the right thing and come forward to LE with the information which will tie this case together for LE. Do this for the man, who gave so much. How can anyone take thousands, if not hundreds of thousands from this man and just forget about him like yesterdays trash?

No - we have not forgotten, we will not forget and we will be here until the day LE solves this one and Bob receives the justice he deserves.

GrainneDhu said:

It is somewhere back in the posts.

As I recall, what happened was that Bob was staying with Georgia's aunt and uncle while at Camp Pendleton awaiting assignment.

His mail came to their address and he would leave his outgoing mail, addressed and stamped, on their kitchen table for them to take to the postal box with their own mail. Remember, this was a time when people carried out a lot of interaction via mail, so dropping off the mail was a daily or near-daily occurrence in most households.

Fontelle wrote to Bob but her letters came back "return to sender" but, strangely enough, already opened. Usually mail marked "return to sender" was returned unopened.

The conclusion I would draw is that someone in the household was reading Fontelle's letters to Bob.

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Is it not possible that (depending upon position, deployment, duty status, DoD, etc- that mail for some other reason was returned undeliverable?
Usually areas in question or topics forbidden by military in the mail are simply blacked out, but there have been many times (for security reasons) that mail is opened, checked and returned to sender as undeliverable.
This is well pre-TSA and NSA days, but often times certain military positions require careful analysis of those involved in a person's life- and there are many entry positions that are 'fast tracked' to tighter security clearances. Is it possible that Fontelle unknowingly fell victim to a background check that would make such a position impossible for Mr. Harrod? Often it is not the person themself who is an issue, but someone else in their life that unknowingly presents an issue.

I would be interested to know more about Mr. Harrod's military history. Clearly he was a very intelligent man.

Although of course the conclusion that someone else was reading Fontelle's letters is a huge possiblility.

Just a thought anyway.

Oriah said:

Is it not possible that (depending upon position, deployment, duty status, DoD, etc- that mail for some other reason was returned undeliverable?
Usually areas in question or topics forbidden by military in the mail are simply blacked out, but there have been many times (for security reasons) that mail is opened, checked and returned to sender as undeliverable.
This is well pre-TSA and NSA days, but often times certain military positions require careful analysis of those involved in a person's life- and there are many entry positions that are 'fast tracked' to tighter security clearances. Is it possible that Fontelle unknowingly fell victim to a background check that would make such a position impossible for Mr. Harrod? Often it is not the person themself who is an issue, but someone else in their life that unknowingly presents an issue.

I would be interested to know more about Mr. Harrod's military history. Clearly he was a very intelligent man.

Although of course the conclusion that someone else was reading Fontelle's letters is a huge possiblility.

Just a thought anyway.

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Oriah, that absolutely could be true in some circumstances. However, as the oldest daughter R states on the IS boards:

The media repeatedly reports that they lost touch when Dad "went off to the Korean War" but, Dad was in the Reserves and served as only a cook at Camp Pendleton during that time, so where did that story come from.

The daughters were always quick to point out his "nondescript" position during the war.

suzyq211 said:

Oriah, that absolutely could be true in some circumstances. However, as the oldest daughter R states on the IS boards:

The media repeatedly reports that they lost touch when Dad "went off to the Korean War" but, Dad was in the Reserves and served as only a cook at Camp Pendleton during that time, so where did that story come from.

The daughters were always quick to point out his "nondescript" position during the war.

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Hmm, that's interesting suzyq. Have the daughters sought access to Mr. Harrod's military career records? Did Mr. Harrod keep in touch with any other fellow Marines? Sometimes there are some amazing connections that can be found on veteran databases.

Mr. Harrod went into aerospace contracting, is that correct?

I don't know why, but something about being only a cook in active duty reserves at Camp Pendleton post WW II and pre-Vietnam caught my interest and then ending up in aerospace contracting? Not your typical route.

Mostly I would like to know who else he may have kept in touch with all of those years, in particular other veterans and friends back home. Were Fontelle's letters the only ones returned? And did they go through an APO? It seems almost too easy to verify using military postal service at the time- every unit had an APO.

I don't know why Mr. Harrod's brief military career has caught my attention- just seems like there may be more information to be gained from it. For example, did he receive benefits?

Oriah said:

Hmm, that's interesting suzyq. Have the daughters sought access to Mr. Harrod's military career records? Did Mr. Harrod keep in touch with any other fellow Marines? Sometimes there are some amazing connections that can be found on veteran databases.

Mr. Harrod went into aerospace contracting, is that correct?

I don't know why, but something about being only a cook in active duty reserves at Camp Pendleton post WW II and pre-Vietnam caught my interest and then ending up in aerospace contracting? Not your typical route.

Mostly I would like to know who else he may have kept in touch with all of those years, in particular other veterans and friends back home. Were Fontelle's letters the only ones returned? And did they go through an APO? It seems almost too easy to verify using military postal service at the time- every unit had an APO.

I don't know why Mr. Harrod's brief military career has caught my attention- just seems like there may be more information to be gained from it. For example, did he receive benefits?

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You know, now that you mention it...this is an intriguing detail. I would love to look into this further. I wonder if Bob's daughters ever cared enough to research his military career...