OH - Chanan Palmer, 31, & 4 kids killed in arson fire, Greenville, 16 Sept 2007

joe jones · Mar 24, 2008

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=85683

I don't think a 10 year old should be charged at all,

KatK · Mar 24, 2008

At ten years old, he is old enough to know that starting a fire is very dangerous. He isn't being charged as an adult. I don't know that saying "He's a kid, he lost his mother and siblings, that's enough punishment." is the right thing to do here. Is the kid disturbed?

Linda7NJ · Mar 24, 2008

When I did social work I once had a 7 year old that purposely set his house on fire, even used gas. He wanted to kill his mother, unfortunately...his grandmother never made it out of the fire and neither did his brother. Mom was fine.

Let me tell you something, that kid was only 7 and IMO he was a full blown psychopath. To this day I read here and and watch the news fully expecting to one day hear his name linked to some horrific crimes.

Brefie · Mar 24, 2008

joe jones said:
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=85683

I don't think a 10 year old should be charged at all,

What do you think should be the course of action? I do think he should be severely punished but also get the treatment he seems to clearly need.

Amraann · Mar 24, 2008

Linda7NJ said:
When I did social work I once had a 7 year old that purposely set his house on fire, even used gas. He wanted to kill his mother, unfortunately...his grandmother never made it out of the fire and neither did his brother. Mom was fine.

Let me tell you something, that kid was only 7 and IMO he was a full blown psychopath. To this day I read here and and watch the news fully expecting to one day hear his name linked to some horrific crimes.

Can I ask for more details about his life?
I think at 7 who taught that???

KatK · Mar 24, 2008

Amraann said:
Can I ask for more details about his life?
I think at 7 who taught that???

If he was a psychopath, he wasn't taught, he was born that way. Psychopaths are born, not "made".

csds703 · Mar 24, 2008

KatK said:
If he was a psychopath, he wasn't taught, he was born that way. Psychopaths are born, not "made".

I believe that they are born with certain tendencies, but environment is just as important. I would want to know more about their home life.

southcitymom · Mar 24, 2008

KatK said:
If he was a psychopath, he wasn't taught, he was born that way. Psychopaths are born, not "made".

My sister is reading a book about sociopaths right now. She told me that one of the author's contentions is that while sociopaths are born, the environment they are raised in matters. For instance, a sociopath raised in a violent household will likely become a murderer, while a sociopath raised in a non-violent atmosphere will still grow up to commit crimes against people, but the crimes will be nonviolent (swindling folks out of money, etc...)

JBean · Mar 24, 2008

WARNING KATK HAS SOME LINKS IN A SUBSQUENT POST THAT COMPLETELY SCREWED UP MY COMPUTER. WE DO NOT KNOW WHICH LINK IT WAS AND SHE IS WORKING ON THAT. BUT IN THE MEANTIOME DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINKS IN KATK'S POST.

KatK said:
At ten years old, he is old enough to know that starting a fire is very dangerous. He isn't being charged as an adult. I don't know that saying "He's a kid, he lost his mother and siblings, that's enough punishment." is the right thing to do here. Is the kid disturbed?

This is an old story about a 10 yo that killed his father. he was ultimately convicted and is currently in jail. This monster was definitely created..most likely by his mother.
Boy, 10, allegedly kills dad over sex abuse
Houston Chronicle
Aug. 31, 2004 10:17 AM

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]HOUSTON - Sexual abuse by his father and an increased dosage of Prozac may have helped drive a 10-year-old boy to shoot and kill his father last week, the boy's mother and attorney contend.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2004-08-23-10-year-old-boy-prozac2.htm[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"My son is not a homicidal maniac," said Deborah Geisler. "I knew my son was angry with his father, but I never thought my son would see this as a way to handle the hopeless situation he thought he was in."[/FONT]

Amraann · Mar 24, 2008

KatK said:
If he was a psychopath, he wasn't taught, he was born that way. Psychopaths are born, not "made".

I am sorry ... But I disagree..

csds703 · Mar 24, 2008

southcitymom said:
My sister is reading a book about sociopaths right now. She told me that one of the author's contentions is that while sociopaths are born, the environment they are raised in matters. For instance, a sociopath raised in a violent household will likely become a murderer, while a sociopath raised in a non-violent atmosphere will still grow up to commit crimes against people, but the crimes will be nonviolent (swindling folks out of money, etc...)

I read an article recently about sociopaths. It stated that there are more sociopaths in the west than the east because we are raising our kids to be narcissitic. Teaching them to be competitive from a very early age and putting so much emphasis on winning or doing well pressures them to find ways to please us. It was a very chilling article IMO.
Back to your authors theory, Scott Peterson did not grow up in a violent household, but he did murder.

Taximom · Mar 24, 2008

southcitymom said:
My sister is reading a book about sociopaths right now. She told me that one of the author's contentions is that while sociopaths are born, the environment they are raised in matters. For instance, a sociopath raised in a violent household will likely become a murderer, while a sociopath raised in a non-violent atmosphere will still grow up to commit crimes against people, but the crimes will be nonviolent (swindling folks out of money, etc...)

That books sounds very interesting. Do you know the title?

I would like to know more about this boy too. I would like to see that he gets help along with punishment.

KatK · Mar 24, 2008

Amraann said:
I am sorry ... But I disagree..

Do you agree that gays are (usually) born, not made? What about bi-polar people? Surely you agree that there are mental illnesses that people are born with? ETA: Read Link 1 below, and Link 2 below. Link 3 below is what Katherine Ramsland has to say as well.

ETA: BEWARE! One of these links may go to a site that can cause problems for your computer. I don't know which link, so be careful! I'm hoping the resident techie can say which one is the problem, so I know what place to avoid in future.

These are the links originally embedded in this post. I cannot find anything wrong with them, but clearly JBean had difficulty. So I've redone them here to show the full link, be aware.

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/psychopath.html

http://www.psychopath-research.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/94/site_id/1#import

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/psychopath/2.html

southcitymom · Mar 24, 2008

csds703 said:
I read an article recently about sociopaths. It stated that there are more sociopaths in the west than the east because we are raising our kids to be narcissitic. Teaching them to be competitive from a very early age and putting so much emphasis on winning or doing well pressures them to find ways to please us. It was a very chilling article IMO.
Back to your authors theory, Scott Peterson did not grow up in a violent household, but he did murder.

Yes - I don't recall Bundy growing up in a violent household either. I will get my sister to send me the book - I would like to read it.

southcitymom · Mar 24, 2008

Taximom said:
That books sounds very interesting. Do you know the title?

I would like to know more about this boy too. I would like to see that he gets help along with punishment.

Taxi - she told me, but it has slipped my mind. I will ask her the next time we talk and I will let you know. She says it has lots of case histories (one she described involved a 5 year old girl who constantly tried to kill her younger brother) and that it is very interesting.

JBean · Mar 24, 2008

southcitymom said:
My sister is reading a book about sociopaths right now. She told me that one of the author's contentions is that while sociopaths are born, the environment they are raised in matters. For instance, a sociopath raised in a violent household will likely become a murderer, while a sociopath raised in a non-violent atmosphere will still grow up to commit crimes against people, but the crimes will be nonviolent (swindling folks out of money, etc...)

I have maintained this exact theory for many years. I do believe that we are born with certain propensities.IMO, our upbringing helps determine whether those tendencies dominate or take a back seat to other behaviors.

KatK · Mar 24, 2008

southcitymom said:
My sister is reading a book about sociopaths right now. She told me that one of the author's contentions is that while sociopaths are born, the environment they are raised in matters. For instance, a sociopath raised in a violent household will likely become a murderer, while a sociopath raised in a non-violent atmosphere will still grow up to commit crimes against people, but the crimes will be nonviolent (swindling folks out of money, etc...)

There are others who say that while this may work in isolated cases, it is foolish and dangerous to think it can work for all psychopaths. I tend to agree with that school of thought.

southcitymom · Mar 24, 2008

JBean said:
I have maintained this exact theory for many years. I do believe that we are born with certain propensities.IMO, our upbringing helps determine whether those tendencies dominate or take a back seat to other behaviors.

I agree with this completely. Environment does matter.

JBean · Mar 24, 2008

If you all are not familiar with this case about the 10 yo that murdered his father it is very interesting. Here's a recap and some info;

http://www.nkmr.org/english/the_lohstroh_case.htm

southcitymom · Mar 24, 2008

KatK said:
There are others who say that while this may work in isolated cases, it is foolish and dangerous to think it can work for all psychopaths. I tend to agree with that school of thought.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you think sociopaths should be taken out of their homes and families and isolated? Or are you just saying - don't always count on it.

OH - Chanan Palmer, 31, & 4 kids killed in arson fire, Greenville, 16 Sept 2007

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