IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

jjenny said:

None of this makes sense because he has two witnesses: one (MB) claims he put him to bed. The other one (JR) apparently claims he saw her leave the building and round the corner. But whatever-try and come up with some convoluted way of how he can be involved.

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I know this is super convoluted but details of the night prior to what MB and JR have said could be pretty useful. There is a difference between saying someone is directly involved and saying that they are being uncooperative.

bx2 said:

I know this is super convoluted but details of the night prior to what MB and JR have said could be pretty useful. There is a difference between saying someone is directly involved and saying that they are being uncooperative.

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I am pretty sure that CR did talk to police. If he says he doesn't remember details of that night I don't see how one can prove otherwise.

jjenny said:

I am pretty sure that CR did talk to police. If he says he doesn't remember details of that night I don't see how one can prove otherwise.

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Right. My original intention was just to provide some rationale to the parents' statements about CR. It seemed like folks here were taking those statements to mean that they suspected him of being directly involved, and I just wanted to give another side to why they may be lashing out at him.

If a very petite, beautiful, drunk coed is out walking alone at 4 am, imo, it is easy to believe she was kidnapped. It happens too often not to believe it is possible.

katydid23 said:

If a very petite, beautiful, drunk coed is out walking alone at 4 am, imo, it is easy to believe she was kidnapped. It happens too often not to believe it is possible.

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If she did actually leave the building then yes, she would clearly be an easy target. But if she did round up the corner and went toward her building there was a very short window of opportunity for kidnapping without it showing up on cameras or no one noticing anything.

jjenny said:

What info leaked out that suggested he showed no sign of intoxication? As far as I recall there was no such info. And since he was out partying that night, and had been arrested in the past for being intoxicated, I don't think its out of realm of possibility that he was intoxicated that night as well.

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I was referring to the journal news article where they describe what is supposedly on the tape of CR and LS leaving the smallwood apt. complex.It claims LS stumbled out of the elevator and fell against a wall.Then CR helping her up and leading her out of the building.So in my opinion the tape as described shows signs of LS being intoxicated but not CR.I could not locate the actual article but their was a link to Tony Gatto blog were he does quote part of the article.
http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...video-lauren-spierer-was-stumbling-fell-down/

Early on the police said everyone was cooperating. Now, we're hearing this person or that person are not cooperating. I suspect the parants, LE, PI's, etc. want more bites at the apple. Since these people didn't tell them what they want to hear or anything of significance then they want to keep asking questions until they do. Otherwise, they are not cooperating in their eyes.

I understand the parents' frustration but then I can also understand how they could also be in some desperation too.

If any of CR, JR, and MB are really the police's chief suspects then they must've been good at avoiding leaving any evidence that morning. Good enough that the police feel they need a body to prove a crime. From the police's actions it doesn't appear they even did anything that would call their alibis into question (like a cell ping from somewhere when they claim to be elsewhere). At least not enough for the police and/or prosecutor to act upon it.

And what of the alleged mystery guest at JR's? He could infact be a 4th alibi witness corroborating the story of the other 3. Doesn't mean he's telling the truth of course, but it would mean there's one more person needed to keep a story straight and not have any loose ends.... or else one more person who tells a story that dovetails with the other 3's story.

phantomthought said:

I was referring to the journal news article where they describe what is supposedly on the tape of CR and LS leaving the smallwood apt. complex.It claims LS stumbled out of the elevator and fell against a wall.Then CR helping her up and leading her out of the building.So in my opinion the tape as described shows signs of LS being intoxicated but not CR.I could not locate the actual article but their was a link to Tony Gatto blog were he does quote part of the article.
http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...video-lauren-spierer-was-stumbling-fell-down/

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Just because he was supposedly able to help her doesn't mean he himself wasn't intoxicated. Considering we are talking about someone with prior arrest for illegal intoxication, and who was out at the bar, it'd be pretty surprising if he was sober, not the other way around.

akh said:

Early on the police said everyone was cooperating. Now, we're hearing this person or that person are not cooperating. I suspect the parants, LE, PI's, etc. want more bites at the apple. Since these people didn't tell them what they want to hear or anything of significance then they want to keep asking questions until they do. Otherwise, they are not cooperating in their eyes.

I understand the parents' frustration but then I can also understand how they could also be in some desperation too.

If any of CR, JR, and MB are really the police's chief suspects then they must've been good at avoiding leaving any evidence that morning. Good enough that the police feel they need a body to prove a crime. From the police's actions it doesn't appear they even did anything that would call their alibis into question (like a cell ping from somewhere when they claim to be elsewhere). At least not enough for the police and/or prosecutor to act upon it.

And what of the alleged mystery guest at JR's? He could infact be a 4th alibi witness corroborating the story of the other 3. Doesn't mean he's telling the truth of course, but it would mean there's one more person needed to keep a story straight and not have any loose ends.... or else one more person who tells a story that dovetails with the other 3's story.

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Prosecutors always want a body. It's very rare to see a prosecution without a body. If there was a lot of blood loss then they can prosecute without a body, but with where some suspicions are in this case (potential overdose) there wouldn't be a lot of blood loss. And police have released nothing about phone pings or whereabouts of any of the person of interests, so we don't know what police have. I must say so far police strategy of releasing no info hasn't been working, so I don't approve of it. I agree about the parents, I have no doubt they are desperate to find out what happened to LS.

jjenny said:

If she did actually leave the building then yes, she would clearly be an easy target. But if she did round up the corner and went toward her building there was a very short window of opportunity for kidnapping without it showing up on cameras or no one noticing anything.

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That's what we don't know - if she did leave, could she have stopped to rest or decide to go someplace else - increasing her exposure time...

OldSteve said:

That's what we don't know - if she did leave, could she have stopped to rest or decide to go someplace else - increasing her exposure time...

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"Increasing her exposure time..." When you put it that way it really makes an impact; I can almost see it. This would also increase the chances that she would have been seen by someone. There were several kids out during that timeframe, including that one gal who is a hair stylist nearby who said she didn't see anything or anyone.

Today I was thinking about how early on we didn't even know JR was supposedly the last to see her. For at least a week if not more, it was CR who was the last. Then all of a sudden this new info and the name JR is released. Hmmm...curious.

She could have left at 3:30 and he could say it was 4:30 especially if he was loaded which I assume he was.

Let's start with Long QT Syndrome. It is not a heart defect as many have been led to believe in this story. it is a neurological problem related to epilepsy. People with this disability have been given a PI or DUI after only one drink. Alcohol makes them very uncoordinated even though their thinking may still be clear. So, Lauren may have been stumbling but quite able to use a cellphone. Her mind may have been functioning much better than we have been led to believe. Heart problems caused by Long QT are controlled with beta blockers. You can get beta blockers at a local nutrition store. No prescription required. This girl could very well still be alive and held by her abductor.
As far as no video proof of her leaving 5 N Townhomes. There is also no video proof of her going there. The POI's statements to BPD are all that place her at that location.
Lauren and Corey arrive at her apartment in the early hours of June 3. The story goes, they are ambushed on the 5th Floor. CR is knocked down and kicked in the head. Lauren is angry and does not enter her apartment. The guy who attacked CR is a friend of her roommate. So, she walks CR home instead of going home herself. I wonder if she stayed at Jay Rosenbaum's till 4:30 AM because she may have been afraid she could be ambushed herself and wanted to wait them out. This may also explain why she didn't use the path she normally took which passed by 10th & College Apartments where they lived. The NE corner of 10th and College Apartments would be an excellent place to stand out of camera view and watch a girl leaving 5 N Townhomes. You would be able to see which direction she took and go grab her. And, I wouldn't know all this except for I went to Bloomington myself on August 23, 2011. Two men and a blond were in the alley near sundown. The blond got ahead of us in the alley and a middle-eastern man came running after her. When he saw 2 men, he ran to a getaway car and sped away.
He came from 10th and College Apartments. So, I bet it's an abduction. But, it's not a random abduction because you really had to know that block in order to avoid the cameras. By the way, I also suspect Lauren dropped her keys during the kidnapping because you have your keys in hand on the way home, not on the way to visiting. Oh,
Weren't her keys put on the rail of 10th and College Apartments?

AND, a very reliable source told me Lauren and CR felt they were being watched at Sports and Lauren's stuff was not where she put it.

Jacobite said:

AND, a very reliable source told me Lauren and CR felt they were being watched at Sports and Lauren's stuff was not where she put it.

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Great first posts. Well thought out and informative. :welcome::fireworks:

Jacobite said:

AND, a very reliable source told me Lauren and CR felt they were being watched at Sports and Lauren's stuff was not where she put it.

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Lauren was out in public, likely drunk and lord knows what else, and she was with a man other than her boyfriend, at 2 am? I imagine friends of hers and her bf's would be interested in the situation. Probably explains how/why she and CR were met by the individuals who punched CR back at Lauren's apt bldg.

Jacobite said:

By the way, I also suspect Lauren dropped her keys during the kidnapping because you have your keys in hand on the way home, not on the way to visiting. Oh,
Weren't her keys put on the rail of 10th and College Apartments?

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Thought one of the relatively well-established facts of this case is that Lauren likely dropped her keys on the way to 5 North from Smallwood--or even earlier. As whomever placed them on the railing did so well before 4:30 am.

thesaint said:

Thought one of the relatively well-established facts of this case is that Lauren likely dropped her keys on the way to 5 North from Smallwood--or even earlier. As whomever placed them on the railing did so well before 4:30 am.

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Yes, it was on her way there, not on her way back. Also she wouldn't be rounding the corner on the street where she supposedly was last seen if she intended to go back through the alley where the keys were found. That is out of the way. From the map police presented, she was supposedly taking a different route back to her apartment than the one she took to CR's, MB's and JR's apartments.

RE: Jacobite's comment: This information comes from a pediatric cardiologist, who says:
"Long QT IS a heart defect. It's an inherited arrhythmia-producing defect. Unless the meds she was on interacted w/the alcohol there's no reason to think she'd have any different response to alcohol than anyone else. And also, you cannot purchase a beta blocker over the counter - you need a prescription.
And, Long QT and epilepsy have nothing to do with each other. they are 2 different things."

Jacobite, thanks for sharing. I appreciate your post, especially the part about the "ambush" as you so aptly call it. And of course this makes me think once again about the second tier players: ZO, AB, is there another whose initial I'm omitting?

I do have some questions about the rest of the account and hope you will clarify.

Are you referring to Tenth and College Apts or Tenth and College Village? A person could only see the direction of someone leaving from 5 North if they were at the NE corner of the Village and there is a camera at that location; in fact, that is where Lauren and CR were last seen.

I'm curious as to why you mentioned that although Lauren was stumbling she could still use a cellphone? The last call she made was at 12:15 a.m.

The second post about them being watched and her stuff not being where it should have makes a lot of sense. It's quite refreshing to read something that makes sense. And I'm pretty sure Keylime has speculated this many times.

Lastly, would you mind sharing what has led you to post this evening, after all this time? Thanks again.

Esther said:

RE: Jacobite's comment: This information comes from a pediatric cardiologist, who says:
"Long QT IS a heart defect. It's an inherited arrhythmia-producing defect. Unless the meds she was on interacted w/the alcohol there's no reason to think she'd have any different response to alcohol than anyone else. And also, you cannot purchase a beta blocker over the counter - you need a prescription.
And, Long QT and epilepsy have nothing to do with each other. they are 2 different things."

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In addition, I think someone posted months ago about the danger of being excited or scared for someone with this condition.