George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

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Karmady said:
I disagree. As O'Mara pointed out frequently during his questioning, Gilbreath executed the PCA -- meaning he vouched for the truth of every syllable based on his own PERSONAL knowledge. If he only had vague knowledge of the truth of the allegations in the affidavit, he needed to educate himself sufficiently to swear to them. Otherwise, the affidavit is deficient. Gilbreath is locked in to the basis of his knowledge at the time he signed the PCA. It may be true that he shouldn't have sworn to certain things because he only had vague or secondhand knowledge of the information, but that was precisely O'Mara's point based on his knowledge of what an affidavit is. jmo
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Incorrect. Gilbreath can swear to information provided in a probable cause affidavit that he receives from other law enforcement officers. Also, if you look at the affidavit it clearly states that Gilbreath and O'Steen swear to the information. Gilbreath is not going to speak for O'Steen and vice versa. I've read over and over and over about how the PC affidavit should lay out the case and give all the information. Not true. A defense attorney would love that, but that is not what is required. A probable cause affidavit should be brief and contain only the elements of the offense necessary to secure an arrest warrant. In other words, enough information to convince a judge that a warrant is justified. So if MOM wanted a true representation and wanted to question folks about the affidavit in the bond hearing, he should have subpoenaed both investigators. He didn't, he saw Gilbreath there and took advantage. I don't fault him for that, it was good thinking and it turned out well for him.

George's injuries...I think you can look through my limited posts on this thread and see that I have never indicated that I didn't think or believe that GZ was injured. I've always believed that he probably was injured, he described a fight, and people get injured in fights. I've never said...prove to me he was injured. So now, let's put these injuries in context with everything else, except we can't because we're missing the everything else.
 
lauriej said:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/tra...rt-shows-16357205?tab=9482931&section=1206833

--scalp lacerations: NO sutures needed..

--also, anyone know what a diagnosis of IBS refers to? K Z ??

georgenosutures.jpg
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Irritable Bowel Syndrome. What we are looking at is the "summary" section of the narrative. He was given Lodine, a NSAID. The provider is commenting that GZ was counseled as to the risk of the Lodine creating GI upset in a patient with a previous dx of IBS.
 
BiancaS said:
If Crump had not gotten involved, in all fairness, we never would have heard of Trayvon Martin and GZ would not have been charged with a crime.

My understanding is that MOM delayed the discovery process. He now says it is to protect the witnesses, but I don't believe he filed the necessary motion until very, very recently, long after the discovery would have been released.

I think we will be seeing most if not all of the doc dump very soon, which is why the medical report was leaked. Look, over there!!! Kind of like the CA case, distractions right before anything happened, including doc dumps.

All just MOO!!
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I don't know what would have happened if Crump hadn't gotten involved since the investigation was ongoing. Further, I'm not sure that George being arrested WAS the right outcome based on what I've seen so far, even for manslaughter. If George has I valid SYG defense, which I believe he does have (at least the State can't prove otherwise, as the prosecutor's office initially concluded), the law is designed specifically to protect him from arrest, not just conviction. jmo

As far as releasing the medical report now, jmo, but it would be much better to release negative information BEFORE you release favorable information for the same reason you mentioned. You're only as good as the last thing you did, as they say, or in this case, as the last thing the public saw. jmo
 
Crump said Wednesday the injuries cited in Zimmerman's medical report do not clear him of shooting Martin.

"You have to look at this in the full context," he said. "George Zimmerman made the decision to get out of his car, profile Trayvon Martin, pursue Trayvon Martin and confront him."

He said the report shows that Martin was fighting for his life and the altercation never would have happened if Zimmerman had not pursued the teen.

He also questioned the severity of Zimmerman's injuries. He said Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital at the scene, was then seen on a police videotape at least 30 minutes later in which he had no visible injuries and went to his doctor the next day to get clearance to return to work.

"This report needs to be vetted with a keen eye," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-16/trayvon-zimmerman-medical-report/55022578/1
 
cityslick said:
They do not have to be life threatening to be able to defend yourself under SYG. Was this guy's life in danger when he chased, stabbed and killed someone because he was 'robbed'?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html

The doctor would not put on the report that he had a broken nose, likely or otherwise, simply because GZ told him so.
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That case is really strange, the guy killed him then stole the other radios the guy had and sold them. Why wasn't that murder in the commission of a felony?
 
Dr.Fessel said:
Crump said Wednesday the injuries cited in Zimmerman's medical report do not clear him of shooting Martin.

"You have to look at this in the full context," he said. "George Zimmerman made the decision to get out of his car, profile Trayvon Martin, pursue Trayvon Martin and confront him."

He said the report shows that Martin was fighting for his life and the altercation never would have happened if Zimmerman had not pursued the teen.

He also questioned the severity of Zimmerman's injuries. He said Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital at the scene, was then seen on a police videotape at least 30 minutes later in which he had no visible injuries and went to his doctor the next day to get clearance to return to work.

"This report needs to be vetted with a keen eye," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-16/trayvon-zimmerman-medical-report/55022578/1
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Dang Lawyers are experts in everything :fence:
 
Dr.Fessel said:
Crump said Wednesday the injuries cited in Zimmerman's medical report do not clear him of shooting Martin.

"You have to look at this in the full context," he said. "George Zimmerman made the decision to get out of his car, profile Trayvon Martin, pursue Trayvon Martin and confront him."

He said the report shows that Martin was fighting for his life and the altercation never would have happened if Zimmerman had not pursued the teen.

He also questioned the severity of Zimmerman's injuries. He said Zimmerman refused to go to the hospital at the scene, was then seen on a police videotape at least 30 minutes later in which he had no visible injuries and went to his doctor the next day to get clearance to return to work.

"This report needs to be vetted with a keen eye," he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-16/trayvon-zimmerman-medical-report/55022578/1
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I haven't seen a single source that suggests that the injuries documented in GZ's med records "clear him". Certainly they are an important part of the whole picture of what happened. And, imo, the mere existence of injuries on GZ DOES put the topic of self defense back on the table (if it was ever off in the first place).

Interestingly, in all 5 of the individuals who have been convicted of federal hate crimes, none of them were injured by their victims. None of them claimed any variety of self defense. Food for thought.
 
LC446 said:
Incorrect. Gilbreath can swear to information provided in a probable cause affidavit that he receives from other law enforcement officers. Also, if you look at the affidavit it clearly states that Gilbreath and O'Steen swear to the information. Gilbreath is not going to speak for O'Steen and vice versa. I've read over and over and over about how the PC affidavit should lay out the case and give all the information. Not true. A defense attorney would love that, but that is not what is required. A probable cause affidavit should be brief and contain only the elements of the offense necessary to secure an arrest warrant. In other words, enough information to convince a judge that a warrant is justified. So if MOM wanted a true representation and wanted to question folks about the affidavit in the bond hearing, he should have subpoenaed both investigators. He didn't, he saw Gilbreath there and took advantage. I don't fault him for that, it was good thinking and it turned out well for him.

George's injuries...I think you can look through my limited posts on this thread and see that I have never indicated that I didn't think or believe that GZ was injured. I've always believed that he probably was injured, he described a fight, and people get injured in fights. I've never said...prove to me he was injured. So now, let's put these injuries in context with everything else, except we can't because we're missing the everything else.
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You can rely on what you are told by others so long as you are comfortable with what they told you, but you still have to claim it as your personal knowledge otherwise you can't effectively swear to it. Swearing to something is exactly the same as saying I know this to be true on penalty of perjury. It is a statement to the Court, under oath.

Example:

I submit an affidavit swearing that on June 6, 2011, my office sent a letter to so-and-so which said x, y z. If I wrote and sent the letter, I can swear to it without reservation. If I did not write the letter I can attach it and swear to it because I've seen the letter and the normal business practice in my office is for letters to be sent on the day they are dated by the means identified in the letter. However, if I did not write or send the letter myself, but my colleague tells me that he wrote it and sent it, I can still swear to it (as in, its physically possible for me to do so). But if I don't independently verify that the letter was sent and/or attach it to my affidavit, my affidavit is, at best, deficient and subject to challenge on that basis. Which is exactly the point of O'Mara's questioning.

And you are right that O'Steen also signed the affidavit. So I stand corrected on that point. I've never seen (or at least never noticed) an affidavit signed by two people. Nonetheless, both affiants are independently responsible for the content of the entire document, imo, and Gilbreath is still locked in. I agree with Dershowitz that it is a deficient PCA...period, and I think O'Mara did a great job.
 
cityslick said:
Is he fighting the discovery as a whole or fighting the redaction of information pertaining to witness names, etc?
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IMO, he's calling the shots as to what gets released. Anything that makes his client look good will come out and anything that casts any doubt (or as O'Mara calls it "inflammatory evidence") will be held back. He's got this all figured out while the lottery pot grows. imo
 
cityslick said:
The fact of the matter is we are now finding out as more info comes out that he did in fact have injuries. There is no way he's going to cause those injuries after the fact when the cops who saw him that night will simply testify that he didn't have them, thus at that point you might as well throw him in jail anyway.

We also find out that the word of a funeral director means nothing as it pertains to injuries to TM's hands. Many were taking the funeral director's comments that he saw no signs of injury as fact that TM has no injuries. We are learning that is not the case.
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Late today and catching up, but I had a thought about this man being the funeral 'director'. What I'm wondering is if the reason he did not see any injuries on Trayvon's hands is that he is not the one who actually prepares the body but has technicians who do that work. He may have only seen Trayvon's body after he was already in the coffin for the funeral, and was just checking the work his workers had done. I'm pretty sure they were directed to cover up any obvious injuries for the parents' sake.

Anyway, I'm not taking the word of this leak as legitimate evidence...want to see the actual autopsy report and pictures from that by the ME.

You hear us MOM???

IMO

Note: I realize now this should be in the other thread but don't know how to move it with the quote.
 
At $400/hr they need to bring in a minimum of $3,200 a day just to pay for the defense.
 
Trayvon Martin Case Shadowed by Series of Police Missteps


There was only one photo taken by the police at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html
 
Isabelle said:
IBS = Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Not sure what you are referring to by 'KZ'
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliotibial_band_syndrome"]Iliotibial band syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Illiotibial Band Syndrome applies to the knee joint. :) I am pretty certain that is what the medical person is referring to. You can get it when you hyperextend the joint side to side. I had it once.
 
tehcloser said:
Trayvon Martin Case Shadowed by Series of Police Missteps


There was only one photo taken by the police at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html
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Thank you for that link. I am peeved like you wouldn't believe reading things like this:

¶ There was only one photo taken by the police at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.


¶ The vehicle that Mr. Zimmerman was driving when he first spotted Mr. Martin was mistakenly not secured by officers as part of the crime scene. The vehicle was an important link in the fatal encounter because it was where Mr. Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious teenager in a hooded sweatshirt roaming through the Retreat. Mr. Zimmerman also said he was walking back to the vehicle when he was confronted by Mr. Martin before shooting him.


¶ The police did not cover the crime scene to shield evidence from the rain, and any blood from cuts that Mr. Zimmerman suffered when he said Mr. Martin pounded his head into a sidewalk may have been washed away.


¶ The police did not test Mr. Zimmerman for alcohol or drug use that night, and one witness said the lead investigator quickly jumped to a conclusion that it was Mr. Zimmerman, and not Mr. Martin, who cried for help during the struggle.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-case-shadowed-by-police-missteps.html?_r=1

W.
T.
F.
???

Arggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
 
¶ There was only one photo taken by the police at the scene of any of Mr. Zimmerman’s injuries — a full-face picture of him that showed a bloodied nose — before paramedics tended to him. It was shot on a department cellphone camera and was not downloaded for a few days, an oversight by the officer who took it.
Click to expand...

I apologize if I am annoying everyone-so the police report does not reflect the injuries, either because of oversight or PD didnt think they were significant perhaps?

I am not implying or saying they werent, just trying to understand. Then the EMT report must reflect the injuries, correct? I will go find it if it has been released.
 
From same link.........

Some Sanford officers were skeptical from the beginning about certain details of Mr. Zimmerman’s account. For instance, he told the police that Mr. Martin had punched him over and over again, but they questioned whether his injuries were consistent with the number of blows he claimed he received.
 
tehcloser said:
From same link.........

Some Sanford officers were skeptical from the beginning about certain details of Mr. Zimmerman’s account. For instance, he told the police that Mr. Martin had punched him over and over again, but they questioned whether his injuries were consistent with the number of blows he claimed he received.
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OK-now this makes sense to me. I was pretty sure that this was clear since day one.

What was the time lapse between the shooting and the visit with his physician?
 
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