IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

SacreBleu said:

So curious to know the cousins' relationship. Did they spend a lot of time together? Was Lyric the leader? Would Elizabeth do anything Lyric said? IF they were still running free, even at 2:00, would not one or the other of them been chomping at the bit to get back to Grandma"s, knowing that there would be a price to pay for being so late? It just seems that if this is not a "run away" situation, something went amiss much, much before 2:00.

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I agree.

It sounds like grandma began getting concerned around 1.30, which tells me she had kind of expected them by 1.

RoseRed said:

I thought they were looking until 3:00 pm!

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They are actually looking between 12:15 to 4:00 for the abduction but I thought they said the boat was sighted between 12 and 1.

SapphireSteel said:

Ok I'm really confused now.

LE believe there is a peddle boat guy.

Why would there be? Think about it...those things are painful with only one person...they are really a two person deal. IF it's a pedal boat not a canoe. If there's only one person in it, it's going round in circles.

So...maybe someone's lying about a pedal boat guy? Why would they? Obvious answer...to shift focus.

I too wondered about a 10 year old forgetting her cell phone. It happens, especially if she's riding around and can't be bothered with it. HOWEVER...if she was on a mission to meet a secret "friend" and that friend instructed her to leave it at home, that would change the scenario again.

To summarise -

LE want to speak to pedal/paddle boat guy
Who actually saw pedal/paddle boat guy?
Do they want to speak to him AS a witness, or to BREAK a suspect's story?

I'm leaning that there was NO pedal/paddle boat guy. Who would do something like that on their own anyway? Unless you're in training for something, it's not likely something you'd do on your own IMO.

This is getting really, really, mysterious.

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BBM

I'm sorry, I know this is not a funny situation at all, but that made me laugh out loud. WHY didn't anyone else think of that until now? Brilliant! Of course those boats take 2. This just got a lot weirder.

Did Ted Gamerbinger see the pedal/paddleboat guy?

JaimeInLA said:

BBM

I'm sorry, I know this is not a funny situation at all, but that made me laugh out loud. WHY didn't anyone else think of that until now? Brilliant! Of course those boats take 2. This just got a lot weirder.

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We are on a metaphorical peddleboat without a metaphorical paddle.

To mix metaphors.

Wheres a Gamerbinger when you need one?

One scenario that I can see that would think of that would get both girls to throw down bikes and a purse would involve a puppy and a predator. the predator simply releases the puppy and it runs to the girls who would pick it up and bring it back to the perp and both be grabbed and gone before you know it.

That hole in the fence bothers me. It's so close to the highway.

SapphireSteel said:

Did Ted Gamerbinger see the pedal/paddleboat guy?

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Possibly the aptly-named Iowan eyewitness in our mystery novel DID see Paddle Boat Guy, going around in circles out on the lake. He was there at the same time. Gamerbinger at 12:20, PBG between 12-1.

About the paddle boat:
Maybe the paddle boat guy talked to the girls from the boat to the shore. And he told them if they wanted a ride, they should leave their bikes there and run around to X location, where he would pick them up. And then what?

also i keep going back to the idea of this happened in elizabeths neighbourhood - is that right? i just remember that being discussed a few threads back. it seems that almost all of the attention has been directed at lyric, mm & dm and essentially no info about elizabeth... not to us outsiders & media anyway... but i wonder if there is any remote possibility that the perp is someone that was targeting elizabeth?

Wait a minute. When you combine the Gamerbinger / PBG theory (Gamerbinger said he saw Paddle Boat Guy) with the WEIRD line of questioning/denials about Gamerbinger at the press conference today -- hmmmm.... I am going somewhere I am not allowed to go. ARGH!!!

I mean, Abben said THREE times today, "huh? what guy? some guy saw bikes at 12:20? Weird. Hadn't heard that." And he said that once on Friday too. You'd think between Friday and today someone would have filled him in. He was obviously bluffing. I mean, I'm just a mom of a 9-year old girl sitting in my living room in California, and even I was yelling out, GAMERBINGER!!!!!!!! He HAS to know.

I now have a feeling that his evasiveness about GamerBinger DOES have something to do with seeking the mystery circular Paddle Boat Guy!

katydid23 said:

About the paddle boat:
Maybe the paddle boat guy talked to the girls from the boat to the shore. And he told them if they wanted a ride, they should leave their bikes there and run around to X location, where he would pick them up. And then what?

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thats a good point... maybe thats why the purse was on the other side of the lake... put the bike down but take the purse??? to take a ride across the lake?

nervous_nellie said:

also i keep going back to the idea of this happened in elizabeths neighbourhood - is that right? i just remember that being discussed a few threads back. it seems that almost all of the attention has been directed at lyric, mm & dm and essentially no info about elizabeth... not to us outsiders & media anyway... but i wonder if there is any remote possibility that the perp is someone that was targeting elizabeth?

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I think this is quite possible. Elizabeth is the smaller, younger child and not to be graphic, but more the "type" that a pedophile would target I think. A lot of pedophiles want pre-pubescent kids.

SwampMama said:

One scenario that I can see that would think of that would get both girls to throw down bikes and a purse would involve a puppy and a predator. the predator simply releases the puppy and it runs to the girls who would pick it up and bring it back to the perp and both be grabbed and gone before you know it.

That hole in the fence bothers me. It's so close to the highway.

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True...but then you have the risk of the puppy running away and calling too much attention.

Most "puppies" belonging to predators don't actually exist.

The highway bothers me too, but then someone would have seen SOMETHING. There have been no reports of a strange vehicle seen, or even a familiar one.

In the early days I thought "ok, two predators, spur of the moment" which would entail one behind the wheel, the other chasing - but even if not parked, they still would've had to do a u-turn somewhere.

There were quite a few people around and the lake was fairly built up.

Then I thought, "one predator, parked in off the road" which I still do...but I also thought "not a stranger". It seems as though at least one of the girls wasn't taken by surprise. IMO of course.

I just cannot get over the lack of witnesses, and now strange men paddling in circles in the lake...well not actually, but that's starting to sound as dodgy as hell. Mr Gamerbinger's story is a bit off too, timewise...and did he see the mystery sailor?

WHO saw the guy in the boat? Because he is starting to sound like a figment of someone's imagination to me...

:moo:

liltexans said:

I think this is quite possible. Elizabeth is the smaller, younger child and not to be graphic, but more the "type" that a pedophile would target I think. A lot of pedophiles want pre-pubescent kids.

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oh i hate to think about it that way too... elizabeth looks like such a tiny little girl too... i really wish they would find them...

Nvgirl said:

We have to remember when Isabel Celis case was BIG and they gave those parents a lie detector test everyone was like " Mot people that are innocent and passed just come out and say it to the world" well we have a mother doing that now in this case and people criticize her for telling the world what authorities prob said to her. "You passed"

So what is it? Is it better to come and say hurray I passed or not?

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No one would have known that she hadn't "passed" the first one if she hadn't shared the fact with the press. I believe in this case that she felt compelled to re-take the LDT and share the latest results....

SapphireSteel said:

True...but then you have the risk of the puppy running away and calling too much attention.

Most "puppies" belonging to predators don't actually exist.

The highway bothers me too, but then someone would have seen SOMETHING. There have been no reports of a strange vehicle seen, or even a familiar one.

In the early days I thought "ok, two predators, spur of the moment" which would entail one behind the wheel, the other chasing - but even if not parked, they still would've had to do a u-turn somewhere.

There were quite a few people around and the lake was fairly built up.

Then I thought, "one predator, parked in off the road" which I still do...but I also thought "not a stranger". It seems as though at least one of the girls wasn't taken by surprise. IMO of course.

I just cannot get over the lack of witnesses, and now strange men paddling in circles in the lake...well not actually, but that's starting to sound as dodgy as hell. Mr Gamerbinger's story is a bit off too, timewise...and did he see the mystery sailor?

WHO saw the guy in the boat? Because he is starting to sound like a figment of someone's imagination to me...

:moo:

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bbm... this is what really makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up...kwim?

Nvgirl said:

We have to remember when Isabel Celis case was BIG and they gave those parents a lie detector test everyone was like " Mot people that are innocent and passed just come out and say it to the world" well we have a mother doing that now in this case and people criticize her for telling the world what authorities prob said to her. "You passed"

So what is it? Is it better to come and say hurray I passed or not?

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I was thinking the same thing, but I think people will criticize either way. And then we had Billie Dunn announcinig to the world that she failed her polys. That would not be something most people would want to announce.

I'm still not convinced that LE actually tells someone if they passed, though.

I think whoever said that the 2:30 sighting of the girls riding around the lake sounds off because the girls would have known they were late and not be casually riding is right on! Very good point. They apparently knew Grandma was leaving at 1:30 and Lyric was to go with her. They would not be casually riding around the lake at that time. And like we said before it doesn't seem likely that the 12:27 sighting AND the 2:30 sighting both happened.

Mjskit said:

Could you be so kind to give me a link?

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Just go to bing.com and type in Evansdale, IA - then zoom in at the lake.

JaimeInLA said:

Possibly the aptly-named Iowan eyewitness in our mystery novel DID see Paddle Boat Guy, going around in circles out on the lake. He was there at the same time. Gamerbinger at 12:20, PBG between 12-1.

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That's funny. But maybe it was Gamerbinger who said there was some weirdo out in a paddle boat doing circles in the lake. If no one else saw a paddle boater then he is lying. If other people did - his story checks out.

SwampMama said:

One scenario that I can see that would think of that would get both girls to throw down bikes and a purse would involve a puppy and a predator. the predator simply releases the puppy and it runs to the girls who would pick it up and bring it back to the perp and both be grabbed and gone before you know it.

That hole in the fence bothers me. It's so close to the highway.

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I definitely agree about a puppy. What a perfect lure for most kids!

I think you can rule out the highway. Right now, I-380 is under construction and both directions are squeezed onto one side, turning it into a two lane road with itsy-bitsy shoulders.

It's a designated truck route and, with the construction, traffic is basically bumper to bumper all day long. There really isn't anywhere to safely park a vehicle without causing serious amounts of disruption to traffic.

There are construction crews on the other side of the road and it always seems like there's at least one guy standing there, looking around while he waits for his turn at some mysterious construction chore.

It isn't so clear from the overhead views but the terrain between the shoulder and the 8 foot interstate fence drops steeply and is pretty deep in weeds.

I just don't think anyone could park a car and leave it, even if there were a driver in the car. It would probably stop traffic on that side of the road because the shoulders right now are partially taken up with making lanes. Semi trucks would be hard put to squeeze by a parked vehicle; the drop off means that a vehicle couldn't pull off the road entirely.

A better place to park a vehicle would be in the trees right by where the bikes were found. There's a sort of trail going back into the woods there from Arbutus Avenue. It is curved, so once a vehicle goes around the curve (and closer to the bike trail), it cannot be seen either from Arbutus Avenue or the bike trail.

I think you're right that a puppy would get many kids to stop and just let their bikes fall while they helped the owner by catching the puppy.

Ooooooooo, I just realised it would not be difficult at all to teach a puppy to run up to people on bicycles all waggy and happy looking. Just take a few afternoons beforehand (and in some other location) to station the puppy next to a bike route and have a bag of treats. Every time a bicyclist stops, ask them to "help socialise" the puppy by giving the pup a treat.

Most people are more than happy to help dog owners train their dogs, particularly if the dogs are toy sized or obviously puppies.

A couple 15 minute sessions like that and the puppy would most likely regard anyone on a bike as a potential cookie dispenser.

Ok, can someone help bring me up to speed. I haven't had time to read and am lost. Gamerbinger...is this a real person? What is the latest in a nutshell?

TIA!:seeya: