CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

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FutzBucket said:
No, I don't, but someone's gotta take her side, and it might as well be me.

I'm sorry, but until this tox report comes back, you all got me. I'm gonna stand here and keep defending Elisa from thoughts that she was some drugy on some trip.
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I just want to point out that I explicitly said in the post you're responding to that her behavior might have been the result of an illicit drug taken involuntarily, or her legal medications (the ones she mentioned on what seems to be her blog) or Ambien. And I even made clear that I think it's unilkely that she took an illicit drug voluntarily, but that if she did, that in no way implies that she was a bad person...

Moreover, I just outlined this as one among several plausible theories as to what happened. And somehow you infer that I'm calling her a "druggy" and imply that I'm attacking her?!? It's kind of astonishing.
 
houndstooth said:
Wow, really? On the 31st?? I just read a snippet from an article that stated she was reported missing on the 1st and thought that was pretty speedy, like within hours. But, that makes it almost precient...

...and problematic.
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Yeah, I tend to think the Feb 1st date is correct. I put even less stock in the NYDN than I do in CNN. That same CTV article I linked to says that her case was treated differently than other missing persons cases because it was an international case. Still seems awfully speedy, though.
 
FiveFelines said:
Was it because she was supposed to check out that day? Although... do we know who reported her missing? Was it her family or the hotel staff?
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Feline -- I believe Elisa's Mother called the hotel to report her missing, since they talked daily and those calls stopped on Jan 31

I think the Elisa went missing report was Feb 6, that sticks out from what I read
 
Personally I think suicide, while technically possible, is the least likely of ways for Elisa to have died. Mainly because the water tanks were right next to a 15+ story drop off straight to concrete.

The Cecil is actually a popular place to kill yourself by jumping off of, just like the Golden Gate Bridge. This would have been the obvious suicide choice, not climbing all the way up to the roof and then drowning yourself.
 
Xavier said:


Feline -- I believe Elisa's Mother called the hotel to report her missing, since they talked daily and those calls stopped on Jan 31

I think the Elisa went missing report was Feb 6, that sticks out from what I read
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Thanks. According to this article (not sure how accurate; I'll keep looking):

"Although Lam was scheduled to check out of the hotel on February 1, she had disappeared, despite being in daily contact with her family up until this point. By February 6, the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) had released details about the suspicious disappearance of Lam and on February 7, a press conference was held about the case.

A week later, on February 14, the LAPD released a disturbing surveillance video of the 21 year old University of British Columbia (UBC) student darting in and out of the hotel’s elevators."

http://www.8asians.com/2013/02/21/elisa-lam-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-discovered-in-la-hotel-water-tank/
 
Hi all,

I've been reading along, totally fascinated with this case, but this is my first time chiming in. Go easy on me :)

FiveFelines said:
Thanks. According to this article (not sure how accurate; I'll keep looking):

"Although Lam was scheduled to check out of the hotel on February 1, she had disappeared, despite being in daily contact with her family up until this point. By February 6, the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) had released details about the suspicious disappearance of Lam and on February 7, a press conference was held about the case.

A week later, on February 14, the LAPD released a disturbing surveillance video of the 21 year old University of British Columbia (UBC) student darting in and out of the hotel’s elevators."

http://www.8asians.com/2013/02/21/elisa-lam-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-discovered-in-la-hotel-water-tank/
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Thanks for looking up this reference - this is exactly what I was thinking about with the recent conversation about date missing. From what I've read, she stopped communication with family abruptly AND did not check out when supposed to, and the combination of those factors caused the "missing" statement to go out so quickly. My thought is that LE checked her room after hearing from her parents that they could not get in touch with her, and that the hotel said she didn't check out, so they checked her room.

Now, I think there is probably also more to that story (pure conjecture) because I think it would take a bit more for LE to check the room that quickly. I feel like they either had more info from parents or hotel at that point, perhaps related to the phone, or to the video we've all seen (or additional surveillance video not yet released). I'm also curious whether there would be a window in there where a person of interest employed by the hotel could get back into her room after LE was notified but before they arrived to check the room (if they did - again, conjecture).

On the topic of the video behavior, it looks to me like she's potentially just messing with her hair in the mirror, talking to herself in the mirror, making faces, waiting around, etc. when she's in the hall to the left of the elevator (left facing out of the elevator). Not everyday behavior, but not atypical for a potentially drunk or under-the-influence college-age student. I know I have behaved somewhat like that in the past (when I was that age, and when I drank more than was probably healthy). Just being silly and somewhat bored. :moo:

And again on the video, my issue with the theory about a person being to the left (facing out of the elevator), is that when she does the two peeks out of the elevator earlier (I think one's around 1:20, and the other shortly after, or something thereabouts), she looks to the other direction. That seems like it would be very odd behavior, to not look at all in the direction where there's a potentially threatening person but instead the other direction entirely. That leads me to believe that if there's a person there at all, they are to the right if you're looking out of the elevator.

My leaning now on the elevator video is that it's not directly at the time of any crime, but a bit before, and maybe only partially related (e.g. I don't think this is the crime actually happening but maybe a precursor a ways ahead of time that illustrates some odd behavior possibly due to drinking or chemical issues).

Whew. Hope I'm making some sense here.
 
windbags said:
Personally I think suicide, while technically possible, is the least likely of ways for Elisa to have died. Mainly because the water tanks were right next to a 15+ story drop off straight to concrete.

The Cecil is actually a popular place to kill yourself by jumping off of, just like the Golden Gate Bridge. This would have been the obvious suicide choice, not climbing all the way up to the roof and then drowning yourself.
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BBM
Agreed. And, not sure if it's been mentioned - I'm having trouble keeping up - but from her writings, she sure seems like the kind of girl who would have left a note or something to explain or at least say "goodbye".
 
FutzBucket said:
Okay, you all want me to give up my concept, but why? It freakin' fits!

Give me a reason. I'm starting to think that the real reason I'm upsetting you all, is because you're like me and can't figure out of it.
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IMO I don't think that people want you to give up your concept per say. I just think that your concept seems to be said with such a closed mind. You want people to accept what you have to say, but it seems you refuse to accept what others have to say, especially if they don't see eye to eye with you. :twocents:
 
ptandj said:
Hi all,

I've been reading along, totally fascinated with this case, but this is my first time chiming in. Go easy on me :)



Thanks for looking up this reference - this is exactly what I was thinking about with the recent conversation about date missing. From what I've read, she stopped communication with family abruptly AND did not check out when supposed to, and the combination of those factors caused the "missing" statement to go out so quickly. My thought is that LE checked her room after hearing from her parents that they could not get in touch with her, and that the hotel said she didn't check out, so they checked her room.

Now, I think there is probably also more to that story (pure conjecture) because I think it would take a bit more for LE to check the room that quickly. I feel like they either had more info from parents or hotel at that point, perhaps related to the phone, or to the video we've all seen (or additional surveillance video not yet released). I'm also curious whether there would be a window in there where a person of interest employed by the hotel could get back into her room after LE was notified but before they arrived to check the room (if they did - again, conjecture).

On the topic of the video behavior, it looks to me like she's potentially just messing with her hair in the mirror, talking to herself in the mirror, making faces, waiting around, etc. when she's in the hall to the left of the elevator (left facing out of the elevator). Not everyday behavior, but not atypical for a potentially drunk or under-the-influence college-age student. I know I have behaved somewhat like that in the past (when I was that age, and when I drank more than was probably healthy). Just being silly and somewhat bored. :moo:

And again on the video, my issue with the theory about a person being to the left (facing out of the elevator), is that when she does the two peeks out of the elevator earlier (I think one's around 1:20, and the other shortly after, or something thereabouts), she looks to the other direction. That seems like it would be very odd behavior, to not look at all in the direction where there's a potentially threatening person but instead the other direction entirely. That leads me to believe that if there's a person there at all, they are to the right if you're looking out of the elevator.

My leaning now on the elevator video is that it's not directly at the time of any crime, but a bit before, and maybe only partially related (e.g. I don't think this is the crime actually happening but maybe a precursor a ways ahead of time that illustrates some odd behavior possibly due to drinking or chemical issues).

Whew. Hope I'm making some sense here.
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Welcome (I'm new, too)! I totally agree with you on these points. I think she is somehow incapacitated (due to intoxication, mental illness, or Ambien-induced sleepwalking) in the video OR is playing elevator tag with someone out of camera range. I don't see her as appearing threatened. I also think that the video occurred before the crime (if there was one) and isn't related to her death directly.

What's interesting to me is that her family reported her missing so quickly—after just missing one call? Yes, it's an international case, but it still seems awfully quick.
 
FiveFelines said:
What's interesting to me is that her family reported her missing so quickly—after just missing one call? Yes, it's an international case, but it still seems awfully quick.
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<rsbm>

As a young female travelling alone, it is possible that she had an arrangement with her family that if they didn't hear from her each day by a certain time that they should contact authorities.

JMO
 
Heck, FF we might know when she was reported missing more or less, but as far as I know, we don't know when the cops showed up and searched her room and the hotel, do we?

So, as soon as she doesn't call, at some time we don't know how early or how late either, she's reported missing. When going off alone like this, I can't imagine how her parents weren't in a tizzy from the time she went to Ontario, made a pitstop back in Vancouver, then off again immediately to take a train trip almost to the Mexican border!
To go to the San Diego Zoo by herself?
She was just entering UBC last fall? Full time student, no job?

This would be harrowing for any young person's parents but for her to have alleged mental diagnosis, for her to leave school abruptly and start travelling around after one semester, with a bunch of what I consider awful prescription meds, is just beyond the pale.

I took one or two Wellbutrins to quit smoking. I took maybe one or two Effexors after a death in the family. I, like a few others here, think they should come with a skull and crossbones on the label they are so noxious.
 
noodled1 started a timeline for us in the previous thread. Maybe we can fill in some dates ...

The Toronto hostel staff said that Elisa stayed there for about a week in early December.

From the social media accounts:

On December 6 the lambete Twitter account says they will be in Toronto "until next Tuesday" (which would be December 11).

The tumblr account has her arriving in Vancouver on January 18.

Where do we think Elisa was from December 11 to January 18?
 
houndstooth said:
Heck, FF we might know when she was reported missing more or less, but as far as I know, we don't know when the cops showed up and searched her room and the hotel, do we?

So, as soon as she doesn't call, at some time we don't know how early or how late either, she's reported missing. When going off alone like this, I can't imagine how her parents weren't in a tizzy from the time she went to Ontario, made a pitstop back in Vancouver, then off again immediately to take a train trip almost to the Mexican border!
To go to the San Diego Zoo by herself?
She was just entering UBC last fall? Full time student, no job?

This would be harrowing for any young person's parents but for her to have alleged mental diagnosis, for her to leave school abruptly and start travelling around after one semester, with a bunch of what I consider awful prescription meds, is just beyond the pale.

I took one or two Wellbutrins to quit smoking. I took maybe one or two Effexors after a death in the family. I, like a few others here, think they should come with a skull and crossbones on the label they are so noxious.
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I don't think it's unusual for women to travel by themselves at that age, however, I agree that her parents were probably immediately concerned when they didn't hear from her. Depends on the parents, I guess. (Like the mother who reported her son missing in Peru even though he told her he would be out of contact...)

But yeah, if she was last seen on Jan 31, possibly reported missing on Feb 1, and LE made the case public on Feb 6, that's still almost a week when we don't know what was going on and what was being done in terms of investigation.
 
houndstooth said:
Heck, FF we might know when she was reported missing more or less, but as far as I know, we don't know when the cops showed up and searched her room and the hotel, do we?

So, as soon as she doesn't call, at some time we don't know how early or how late either, she's reported missing.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen anything "official" as far as a timeline for these early hours/ days, so everything I've got in mind is complete speculation/ guess/ opinion. It could have gone something like:
- Parents expect a call and don't get one
- Parents are concerned, since she is so consistent with the calls (maybe even at a set time or they had planned a time, who knows), so they call her and can't get her*
- Parents can't get her so they call the hotel
- Hotel can't get her via room phone, maybe send someone to do a visual check*, also realize she hasn't checked out when supposed to and nobody has seen her leave
- No sign of her so hotel and/or parents call LE

My hunch is that at one of the two points I've starred in this HYPOTHETICAL timeline, there were maybe additional indicators of a problem/ accident/ crime, which escalated things. Again, MOO :moo:
 
houndstooth said:
I took one or two Wellbutrins to quit smoking. I took maybe one or two Effexors after a death in the family. I, like a few others here, think they should come with a skull and crossbones on the label they are so noxious.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the person and how they react to these drugs. If you consider that she may have been bipolar (as she states on Tumblr), she may have had more mental troubles without the meds, especially if she suddenly stopped taking them. Of course, that's just conjecture, since we still don't know if she was still taking them after that Tumblr post in 2012.
 
AlphaWolf said:
- I have been reading up on this fascinating case ( due in large part by finding this great site.....seriously, thank you to everyone who participates)

- always thought that "how she ended up inside the tank" was the most polarizing.

- I'm still not sure if the tank doors had locks on them.

I made a video showing how she could have ended up inside the tank, and how she fit through the tank door

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRa9nDWdmZo&feature=youtu.be
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VERY well done, AlphaWolf, thank you!! :seeya:
 
FiveFelines said:
I don't think it's unusual for women to travel by themselves at that age, however, I agree that her parents were probably immediately concerned when they didn't hear from her. Depends on the parents, I guess. (Like the mother who reported her son missing in Peru even though he told her he would be out of contact...)

But yeah, if she was last seen on Jan 31, possibly reported missing on Feb 1, and LE made the case public on Feb 6, that's still almost a week when we don't know what was going on and what was being done in terms of investigation.
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Exactly. We still don't know how long her room was left "unattended" and what might have been missing not related to her disappearance but possible
theft.
I'm from the South and most of the girls around here can't even go to the ladies room by themself, they have to go in pairs. Travelling alone, for most would be unthinkable. I don't mean just the transportation part. Some could manage that, if they knew someone who was meeting them on the other end, friend or relative, sure, but not to go sightseeing and such completely alone in a strange city. No way.

I'm pretty independent and wouldn't do that, either.
 
houndstooth said:
Exactly. We still don't know how long her room was left "unattended" and what might have been missing not related to her disappearance but possible
theft.
I'm from the South and most of the girls around here can't even go to the ladies room by themself, they have to go in pairs. Travelling alone, for most would be unthinkable. I don't mean just the transportation part. Some could manage that, if they knew someone who was meeting them on the other end, friend or relative, sure, but not to go sightseeing and such completely alone in a strange city. No way.

I'm pretty independent and wouldn't do that, either.
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I am a frequent (female) traveler and know quite a few women who travel alone, so I think it depends on your age, mindset, where you're from, and where you're going. For example, I can see traveling to the US from Canada (vs. say, traveling to parts of the Middle East) alone. HOWEVER, I would not stay at the Cecil/Stay alone. I think EL was either drawn to the dark history of the Cecil or she was at Stay and was fooled by the website for it--didn't realize it might be unsafe. I'm not going to judge her for solo traveling, though. (Not saying that you are, either, of course--just that solo female travel is not as unusual as some might think.)

Back to the missing week--it's very intriguing to me that her room could have been empty for even at least a day without being checked by EL, and with someone in the hotel potentially accessing it (via keys) in the meantime.
 
FiveFelines said:
Back to the missing week--it's very intriguing to me that her room could have been empty for even at least a day without being checked by EL, and with someone in the hotel potentially accessing it (via keys) in the meantime.
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<rsbm>

I wonder if the Cecil is the type of place with a regular checkout time (i.e. 11:00 am) where daily housekeeping staff are already in the hallways waiting to clean the recently vacated rooms.

When the parents didn't hear from Elisa, IMO the logical progression would be for them to have contacted the hotel in an attempt to locate her before contacting the RCMP. Even if her family did contact the RCMP first, i'm pretty sure the very first question they would be asked is "have you contacted the hotel?" and they would be advised to do so before she would even be considered a missing person.

If the family did contact the hotel (say Feb 1), it would be interesting to know what they were told (i.e. we have no clue or she checked out or ...)
 
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