GUILTY GA - Eight family members brutally murdered in Brunswick home, 29 Aug 2009

Belinda said:

This is, after all, the same state where prosecutors tried to railroad Tonya Craft. I don't see the slightest reason why they wouldn't try it again, other than they looked pretty dumb the first time.

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Are you saying that no other state has ever brought a case where the person was found not guilty? If so, poppycock imo.

And that case has nothing to do with this case. In fact the Craft case and the Heinz case is on the opposite ends of the state.

IMO

That was not simply a case where the defendant was found not guilty. It was, at the very least, a malicious prosecution. I think it speaks to the overall attitude of Georgia prosecutors. Granted, different areas, but I see some similar behavior.

Belinda said:

That was not simply a case where the defendant was found not guilty. It was, at the very least, a malicious prosecution. I think it speaks to the overall attitude of Georgia prosecutors. Granted, different areas, but I see some similar behavior.

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Belinda I don't see any malicious intent. Prosecutors are very mindful that they have to go forward if there is a hint that a child is being abused. Didn't her own child say she had touched her?

That is why a jury decides if the case has been proven or not. With so many people today sexually abusing children, both females and males, I just don't see any malicious intent done. Now I do agree she wasnt guilty of anything but that is up to the jury to decided and they did.

I think it is highly unfair though to paint all Ga. Prosecutors with the same wide brush. There is nothing showing they are railroading Heniz Jr.If he was being railroaded then his highly competent defense lawyers would have already gone to the Governor about it. And these two cases are as different as night and day. This one is a blood bath mass murder case where forensic evidence will be the main focus of the state's case along with other witnesses, imo.

I don't cast a wide net including all Prosecutors as the same. Imo, they will prove their case based upon the evidence entered into the trial against him.

How can you say with certainty this man is innocent even when you have not heard the evidence against him? I do believe his is very much guilty but that is based on my own heartfelt opinions from the very start. I do however expect the Prosecutor to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt to substantiate that my opinion was right or wrong.

Just because one Prosecutor may have erred in judgment doesn't ever mean that all cases are brought because they want only to railroad someone. That is totally illogical and simply not true.

IMO

It isnt that I think he is innocent, I think it is very possible he is just as possible as you think he isnt.

I think the investigation and how his arrest was made and what hasnt been made public (not talking about evidence ) is what has raised the level of concern up for this case. I know georgia is not a sunshine state neither is my state yet we are receive information that can lead us to believe they have the right person AND the arrest was a just arrest.

In this case the public has not been reassured with that confidence.
A perfect example of what I mean would be the farmville murders. The police released supporting information in that case as they do in most cases.

For instance they announce '' At 1130 pm a person heard or saw blah blah blah suspect was seen running etc...at or near the scene..farther more when questioned he lied about such and such and we decided to take this person into custody""
See that is very generic and does not release priviledged information yet lets us know they do have probable cause and supporting facts. It wouldnt say he is quilty it is a mere statement of fact.
Had they done that I wouldnt be as worried that this case could be riddled with mistakes and misteps at the investigative level. That is what worries me. I am not saying it did but the fear it could be makes me feel like more people should be watching this case closely and not allow it to fade away.




Also reading the topix thread on the case post 298 is an interesting comment about LE missing stuff at the crime scene posted by a resident of the TP.

Soulmagent said:

It isn't that I think he is innocent, I think it is very possible he is just as possible as you think he isn't.

I think the investigation and how his arrest was made and what hasn't been made public (not talking about evidence ) is what has raised the level of concern up for this case. I know Georgia is not a sunshine state neither is my state yet we are receive information that can lead us to believe they have the right person AND the arrest was a just arrest.

In this case the public has not been reassured with that confidence.
A perfect example of what I mean would be the farmville murders. The police released supporting information in that case as they do in most cases.

For instance they announce '' At 1130 pm a person heard or saw blah blah blah suspect was seen running etc...at or near the scene..farther more when questioned he lied about such and such and we decided to take this person into custody""
See that is very generic and does not release privileged information yet lets us know they do have probable cause and supporting facts. It wouldn't say he is guilty it is a mere statement of fact.
Had they done that I wouldn't be as worried that this case could be riddled with mistakes and missteps at the investigative level. That is what worries me. I am not saying it did but the fear it could be makes me feel like more people should be watching this case closely and not allow it to fade away.




Also reading the topix thread on the case post 298 is an interesting comment about LE missing stuff at the crime scene posted by a resident of the TP.

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BBM

I actually found that comment quite strange. Anti-police I suspect maybe for personal reasons. Imo, Topix is the worst site ever for spreading rumors and misinformation. I remember posting there continuously when the two young girls were murdered in OK and I was appalled to see those who pretended they had inside information. Saying they knew who did it and who was going to be arrested and it turned out to be nothing but someone wanting attention. That case still remains unsolved.

I just don't see anything that shows me they are framing this man. How else did you expect the murder arrest to go down? It is what it is. Imo, they did not have the two pieces of evidence to link him to the crime when it first happened and when they did then he was charged. Suspicion is not enough. They certainly didn't rush to judgment right away and arrest him at the scene. They did arrest him at the time for tampering with evidence, lying to police, and having the illegal drug iirc.

It just seems simple to me. When it happened they didn't have anything that definitively connecting him to the murders but several agencies came in......in full force when it happened and after 8 days of investigation and interviewing possible witnesses they found the evidence to charge him. I just don't see what is sinister about that.

I really think it may be mostly people that aren't even from that community that thinks he may be innocent. From the ones I have talked with in that community seem to think he is guilty and some even know him and the families.

Imo I suspect that it was pretty much like in the Beason Illinois mass murder case that happened in days of this one. LE fast tracked some evidence and got the results back in 3 or 4 days and the perps were arrested.

IMO

I don't say with certainty that he is innocent. I don't know that. I just feel that there are things that are very off about this case and the way it has been handled. Obviously, we haven't seen the evidence yet. My gut says things are hinky. I don't paint all prosecutors with the same broad brush, however I also feel it is certainly not impossible for a false prosecution to happen. LE was under serious pressure to solve this case immediately and conveniently that is precisely what they did.

Tonya Craft was indeed the victim of malicious prosecution. I followed that case pretty closely and those prosecutors are now being sued for the completely out-of-bounds things they did. It can and does happen.

I had always been someone who believed that if someone was arrested, they were more than likely guilty. Then we have all of the innocent people getting out of jail who, it has been proven, were railroaded by prosecutors who knew damn well they were innocent but got them convicted anyway. This on top of the egregious behavior exhibited by the prosecutors in the Tonya Craft trial has changed my opinion drastically on just what prosecutors and investigators are willing to do to get a conviction.

Belinda said:

I don't say with certainty that he is innocent. I don't know that. I just feel that there are things that are very off about this case and the way it has been handled. Obviously, we haven't seen the evidence yet. My gut says things are hinky. I don't paint all prosecutors with the same broad brush, however I also feel it is certainly not impossible for a false prosecution to happen. LE was under serious pressure to solve this case immediately and conveniently that is precisely what they did.

Tonya Craft was indeed the victim of malicious prosecution. I followed that case pretty closely and those prosecutors are now being sued for the completely out-of-bounds things they did. It can and does happen.

I had always been someone who believed that if someone was arrested, they were more than likely guilty. Then we have all of the innocent people getting out of jail who, it has been proven, were railroaded by prosecutors who knew damn well they were innocent but got them convicted anyway. This on top of the egregious behavior exhibited by the prosecutors in the Tonya Craft trial has changed my opinion drastically on just what prosecutors and investigators are willing to do to get a conviction.

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What is "off" with this case? Other than LE, DA and the defense attorneys not speaking out publicly?

The Judge has closed no doors to anyone when any and all hearings are convened. She keeps it open for all to come in and hear and see whatever is being discussed.

Yes, we do have innocent people getting out of prison and often times when they were imprisoned it was because DNA testing wasnt done at the time of their trial or they were put there falsely due to faulty eye witness testimony.

In the Craft case did the DA go to the Grand Jury? If so, he had no choice but to go forward with the indictment handed down by the GJ, imo.

Imo, they solved their case because they found evidence that showed he was the one that did it.

IMO

I am uncomfortable with the perceived secrecy in this case. There is much information that could be made public without compromising the case. This is done all the time. I just find it suspect and unusual.

Belinda said:

I am uncomfortable with the perceived secrecy in this case. There is much information that could be made public without compromising the case. This is done all the time. I just find it suspect and unusual.

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Well it certainly isn't happening in the Beason Illinois mass murder case either. I am just as interested in that case as this one. It has been a year and not one bit of the evidence has been revealed on that case and I am sure it happens in many places that aren't under the sunshine laws.

Now if a Judge starts closing ail the hearings that is a problem imo but I just don't see that ever happening. Every time there is movement on this case the press is right in the courtroom along with private citizens.

They were very closed mouthed about the Christopher Barrios case too until the Edenfield trial was held. But boy oh boy did they pour the evidence into the trial against that sickening monster then.

IMO

Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see what they've got. We could all probably guess until doomsday and still get it wrong. I will be following this case very closely, that's for sure. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out in court.

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/conten...-year-later/vxCmwGwdf0uHVCOf8ntAeQ.cspx?rss=1

Then came August 30, 2009. "I lost my brother, my sister. Guy was raised as my brother. I lost two nieces, Michelle and Chrissy. I lost my two nephews, Michael and Junior."

Seven members of Cross's family and a family friend, were found dead inside a Brunswick mobile home. They're accused killer, another family member, Guy Heinze, Jr.

Cross remembers Heinze as a little boy, not the violent adult police say he became. They say he alone beat his family to death.

"So, if everybody was asleep and he went in there with determination and bam, bam, bam, they wouldn't have even had time to scream," said Cross.

imo

Just thinking: My first impulse if I were Guy's lawyer would be to ask for a change of venue. To get a fair trial and less biased jury pool the trial could be moved to any other Georgia town or city.

I hear about this being done in my State and California.

I haven't heard a word that it was asked for and that would be public record.

Is that a State law (that changes of venue are possible if the Judge grants that motion) ?

This case received national publicity one year ago for about one day. I think more folks in Brunswick have opinions and preconceived notions than elsewhere in Georgia.

Any thoughts?

Greg

GregH said:

Just thinking: My first impulse if I were Guy's lawyer would be to ask for a change of venue. To get a fair trial and less biased jury pool the trial could be moved to any other Georgia town or city.

I hear about this being done in my State and California.

I haven't heard a word that it was asked for and that would be public record.

Is that a State law (that changes of venue are possible if the Judge grants that motion) ?

This case received national publicity one year ago for about one day. I think more folks in Brunswick have opinions and preconceived notions than elsewhere in Georgia.

Any thoughts?

Greg

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We do often have change of venues here in cases. For example, Lynn Turner, the black widow poisoner, who just died in prison, had one of her murder cases moved.

However a lot of information was known before those trials were held.

Change of Venue doesn't happen now but much closer to trial time.

With all the parties involved not releasing any information about the evidence it is going to be a hard go for his attorney to be granted a COV imo.

Had there been loads of pretrial publicity with the parties or family members often appearing on shows like NG or JVM or many long interviews by the area media after the arrest, then they may have had a chance, but that didn't happen in this case.

Once he was arrested 8 days later pretty much everything went quiet.

I think those in Brunswick commenting on the internet either know Jr or his family or knows someone who knew them. I think that is why most seem to believe he is guilty but I am sure there are countless people living there that dont even keep up with the case, and can be fair if they become a juror and didnt know the family or defendant.

JMO though

I think they need to move it as if what OBE says about what most people she talk to there is true then that county has already deemed him quilty.

Why risk it ? Just move it and you dont even have to consider that being a facter later. 9 people who had friends and the friends of there friends. There could be 10,000 people who have some sort of connection to this family in the 3rd degree of seperation.

How large is the jury pool there?

Soulmagent said:

I think they need to move it as if what OBE says about what most people she talk to there is true then that county has already deemed him guilty.

Why risk it ? Just move it and you don't even have to consider that being a factor later. 9 people who had friends and the friends of there friends. There could be 10,000 people who have some sort of connection to this family in the 3rd degree of separation.

How large is the jury pool there?

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I think the city of Brunswick has about 18-20 thousand people. I don't know how many live out in the county. I would think quite a lot. More people are moving out into the rural areas.

A person doesn't have to be oblivious about a case or not know absolutely anything about it in today's time. With the media accessible through so many outlets, I would think someone would have to live in a cave or under a rock to not have heard about this case that lives in Georgia. That still doesn't mean they cant judge the case fairly.

In voir dire what could they really say they know when asked? All that has been released is they have charged Jr with the crime and the victims were bludgeoned to death. Much more info has been known before trial in other cases and the defendant still got a fair trial in the jurisdiction it happened in.

No one that knew the families, including Guy Jr, or some of the living family members will be allowed on the jury. They will be asked that right up front.

The economy across the country is in dire straights. It is very costly to move the trial to another county and death penalty cases already cost and exorbitant amount for the taxpayers that funds the state and the capital defense lawyers.

I just see no justification for filing one. COVs are done when there has been too much pretrial publicity, and we know that hasn't happened, since we have all been complaining for a year that we cant get any new info on this case. lol

I think jurors will be called in from that county and if the Judge feels they are unable to pick 12 jurors and alternates then she will consider a COV.

The defense attorney must prove cause to get the case moved. I dont see anything he can use to get one.

IMO

Another question I have about this case is I wonder how long Guy was questioned by LE without an attorney? How many times? For how long? Innocent people ( which I believe he is) would have a tendency (it would be mine anyway) to tell the police everything I could knowing I was innocent and wanting the killers caught asap.
LE are very skillful and some would say inappropriately manipulative in their questioning. I'm sure it was taped.
One more thing I know nothing about. Money or no Guy could invoke his Miranda rights at any time and ask for a court appointed lawyer before any questioning. Of course if he did that (which almost all lawyers tell you do) he ( and me ) would feel it made him look guilty. Damned if you do damned if you don't. The same can be said of the junk science of "lie detectors"

GregH said:

Another question I have about this case is I wonder how long Guy was questioned by LE without an attorney? How many times? For how long? Innocent people ( which I believe he is) would have a tendency (it would be mine anyway) to tell the police everything I could knowing I was innocent and wanting the killers caught asap.
LE are very skillful and some would say inappropriately manipulative in their questioning. I'm sure it was taped.
One more thing I know nothing about. Money or no Guy could invoke his Miranda rights at any time and ask for a court appointed lawyer before any questioning. Of course if he did that (which almost all lawyers tell you do) he ( and me ) would feel it made him look guilty. Damned if you do damned if you don't. The same can be said of the junk science of "lie detectors"

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I wish we did know. I have no doubt the interview or interviews were taped and most likely will be entered into the actual trial.

I imagine like a lot of people before they became suspects he was very talkative. We see that unfold in so many other cases where the suspect's police interviews are shown in court.

Even though it is well known that it is best to say nothing and ask for an attorney, I am still amazed that so many don't adhere to it. Why? I really don't know because most of the time it comes back to bite them in the butt because they now have given a story that they are locked into.

I imagine though when they told him they were going to arrest him for the other charges he did ask for an attorney. Until then......maybe he thought they fully thought he was just the family member that found his family.

It will be interesting to see the taped interview and if they were satisfied at that time with what he was telling them or did they tell him somethings just weren't adding up?

IMO

May 26, 2010 From Jacksonville .com

Williams denied a blanket motion from Vigneri and Nester, who sought to close all pretrial hearings, seal all court filings and impose a gag order on the police, lawyers, court personnel and potential witnesses.

Vigneri asserted such secrecy was needed to prevent negative and prejudicial pretrial publicity and ensure Heinze receives a fair trial.

Williams reserved the right to close some hearings, but emphasized her court is, and will be, open to the public.

“I do not believe in private trials. … This is not a star chamber. The right of the public and press to have access to the courtroom is of the highest value,” Williams said.

She declined to impose a gag order, but instructed the lawyers not to discuss the facts of the case in the news media or community. Williams asked Assistant District Attorneys Todd Naugle and Greg Perry to urge police officials not to discuss the case in the news media or community.

Williams told the lawyers they could request a change of venue if they believe Heinze cannot receive a fair trial in Glynn County.

She said she won't arraign Heinze for at least three months. That interval will allow the prosecution and defense to examine the potential evidence and file pretrial motions.

Vigneri said he and Nester likely would need more time because they have only one investigator.

“Then I suggest you tell the Capital Defender’s Office to get you another one,” said Williams, noting she will issue a court order mandating another investigator.

Although it might be years before Heinze stands trial, Williams told the lawyers to proceed with all due diligence to prepare the case.

“It needs to be tried when it’s ready, but also, it doesn’t need to be withering on the vine,” Williams said.


I should have gone back and read this earlier. It's still up on the Jacksonville site and answers several of my questions. - Greg

15 months ago but not forgotten: The tapes gain. Every time I hear them I notice something different. When asked how many people there were in the trailer, Guy responded "like six". He sounds very genuine to me.

http://www.zimbio.com/Guy+Heinze+Jr./video/XfZpSdmKQn5/Guy+Heinze+Jr+Video+Playlist

Since there is absolutely no information coming out about this case I really have nothing to add.

Hopefully by the end of next year the trial will be held.

Sure wish there was something new to discuss.

I miss posting with all of you on this case.

Maybe there will be another pre-trial hearing at the first of the year that will give us a glimpse at possible new information.

God bless all the victims and may justice be done.