Caylee's Shoes...Important Clue?

Bringing the following snip over from the Theories Part 5 thread so as not to choke it up w/ details of discussing shoes. I have not re-read this thread...so, perhaps some redundant info to what has already been discussed. My apologies in advance.

BondJamesBond said:

Thanks, Devon. I really appreciate your constructive feedback. :blowkiss: I'd like to noodle on these points w/ you a little more than I can @ the moment...but, maybe some quick thinking-out-loud...let's spend some time on these.

1a) You know, I had noted the backpack w/ toothbrush, comb & wipes, but, hadn't thought too much about lack of clothes. My thinking has been that Casey's intent was to drop Caylee w/ Cindy. So...no clothes packed would sorta seem to fit w/ that approach.

1b) No shoes. Perhaps Caylee was playing in the sandbox @ JBP? Do we need a thread just to discuss the shoes? (I need to search to see if one already exists - if I find it I'll bump it for more discussion so as not to clobber this thread w/ details).

1c) Not trying to push a particular theory...but just to think about how these aspects might come together. Casey's alleged statement to Rob D. about the JBP abduction scene, and subsequently LP's report (I know) 'bout Casey uttering, "They haven't even found her clothes yet!", and, the lack of shoes might all come together IF Casey had to change Caylee @ JBPark (e.g. got muddy playing, potty training accident happens, etc.) and the clothes & shoes all went into a bag that got left behind. That scenario would have Casey using the overnight clothes that afternoon and essentially putting Caylee in the t-shirt & shorts that she had packed as pajamas, or perhaps for the following day's clothes. Recall that Casey appeared to be VERY aware of Casey's lack of having shoes on as she relayed the ficticious story 'bout Caylee's 7/15 phone call and Caylee going on 'bout her shoes. What's one of the first things you do when you hafta change clothes? ...off with the shoes! :waitasec:

I'm gonna cross-post the above to play out the details there.

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My thought on the shoes? I think its possible they were planted somewhere, possibly other items also planted, and LE was supposed to play along with Casey on a scavenger hunt/Dora adventure. Perhaps something at the Sawgrass apartment, at Universal, in the Anthony's back yard - maybe too contrived even for this case, but I've pondered it.

BondJamesBond said:

1b) No shoes. Perhaps Caylee was playing in the sandbox @ JBP? Do we need a thread just to discuss the shoes? (I need to search to see if one already exists - if I find it I'll bump it for more discussion so as not to clobber this thread w/ details).

1c) Not trying to push a particular theory...but just to think about how these aspects might come together. Casey's alleged statement to Rob D. about the JBP abduction scene, and subsequently LP's report (I know) 'bout Casey uttering, "They haven't even found her clothes yet!", and, the lack of shoes might all come together IF Casey had to change Caylee @ JBPark (e.g. got muddy playing, potty training accident happens, etc.) and the clothes & shoes all went into a bag that got left behind. That scenario would have Casey using the overnight clothes that afternoon and essentially putting Caylee in the t-shirt & shorts that she had packed as pajamas, or perhaps for the following day's clothes. Recall that Casey appeared to be VERY aware of Casey's lack of having shoes on as she relayed the ficticious story 'bout Caylee's 7/15 phone call and Caylee going on 'bout her shoes. What's one of the first things you do when you hafta change clothes? ...off with the shoes! :waitasec:

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I'm thinking you might be onto something here Bond. Following are the contents of the Dora the Explorer "Adorable" Backpack:

• First pocket
  • Violet light color comb
  • Toothpaste "Spider-Man" with # 03-2010
  • Tootbrush "Reach"
• Inside
  • Nice'n Toddler clean wipes (pack) serial #7488754530
  • Two pull-ups

Sure looks like the backpack was partially packed for an overnight somewhere, with a glaring omission being a change of clothes.

I suppose KC and a live Caylee could have gone to JBP and have enough time for playground activity on the 16th between 4:53 and 5:58...or perhaps there was another nearby playground, closer to Tony's. Another possibility to consider is that KC changed Caylee's clothes after she died, perhaps on the 17th when backed into the garage for the first time.

Did any of the TES searches produce a bag of children's clothes in JBP or on the route between Tony's and GA / CA? None was entered into evidence, but would be interesting to know.

Just wondering also.... were the clothes..... possibly... the
dirty clothes... that she took off earlier... then messed up the
clean ones... got wet or something...and KC made the decision to
place back on Caylee the already dirty clothes... ? because of
those S H O R T S !

Just wondering... sometimes... parents have to improvise !
( or how ever you spell that !)

*** Quite the Sad mystery that KC has weaved with her
stupid web of lies upon lies ! ! *** Sad & Sick ! ! !
:furious::liar::liar::liar::behindbar

JMO

God Bless !
jjgram

lacey clementine said:

Who (if anyone) will give credible confirmation if any of Caylee's shoes are missing (or not missing?)

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That's the problem. IMO There are only two people who can verify if any of Caylee's shoes are missing (Cindy & Casey) and we can't believe anything they say.

robotdog said:

i said many many many months ago, that the shoes were going to be the key to the case. and yep you guessed it i was ridiculed
:banghead::banghead: :coffeeup::coffeeup::laugh::laugh:

course i was just ranting and had a feeling about it
im skerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring myself a little bit

im not going to go back and find the multiple posts i made about it
cause im still :furious: about the number of
i got

going back to my RANTING ROBOTDOG MODE soon :crazy:

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I've always loved your input RD

JWG said:

I'm think you might be onto something here Bond. Following are the contents of the Dora the Explorer "Adorable" Backpack:

• First pocket
  • Violet light color comb
  • Toothpaste "Spider-Man" with # 03-2010
  • Tootbrush "Reach"
• Inside
  • Nice'n Toddler clean wipes (pack) serial #7488754530
  • Two pull-ups

Sure looks like the backpack was partially packed for an overnight somewhere, with a glaring omission being a change of clothes.

I suppose KC and a live Caylee could have gone to JBP and have enough time for playground activity on the 16th between 4:53 and 5:58...or perhaps there was another nearby playground, closer to Tony's. Another possibility to consider is that KC changed Caylee's clothes after she died, perhaps on the 17th when backed into the garage for the first time.

Did any of the TES searches produce a bag of children's clothes in JBP or on the route between Tony's and GA / CA? None was entered into evidence, but would be interesting to know.

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Methinks these items were not packed for a specific trip, but rather had permanent residence in the backpack. They are all basic non-perishable toddler requisites, and so I think it's highly likely that each time the backpack was emptied of the day's soiled clothes, snack wrappers, empty sippy cups etc, these items would have been left for next time.

So why was the backpack in the car, but not fully loaded? IMO, if it had been KC's intent to try and contact CA for the purpose of leaving Caylee with her at work, there would have been at least a drink in there for Caylee, if not a snack. KC left the house shortly after 4.00pm but CA works until at least 5.30pm IIRC, if not 6.00pm some days. I think it would have been a general rule that if KC ever had to drop Caylee off at Gentiva due to 'unexpected work commitments' that she was to provide Caylee with refreshments (and probably also something to keep her entertained - book/puzzle/toy etc.). There were no items like this found in the car, expect for the doll.

I think it more likely that the backpack (with only it's basic permanent contents) was given to Caylee to carry out at lunchtime, to reinforce the 'KC off to work/Caylee to nanny' charade that KC wanted GA to believe (if this little procedure did take place on this particular day). If so, I think it also likely that the backpack (and doll) were left behind in the car when they returned to the house after GA had left, because Caylee had fallen asleep and had to be lifted out of the car.

Ergo, Caylee's shoes were probably removed in, and left behind at the house, when KC laid her down to continue her nap, and the bag was never retrieved and packed properly for Caylee that day because the next time KC took off in her car, Caylee was no longer in need of her earthly possessions.

Caylee's remains had none of the clothes GA describes her wearing when she and KC left the house on June 16th.

Remember, KC is reported to have told the lady bountyhunter "they haven't even found her clothes yet". Her shoes will be with those clothes I would imagine.

The question for me is...why did KC change Caylee's clothes?

Valhall said:

Caylee's remains had none of the clothes GA describes her wearing when she and KC left the house on June 16th.

Remember, KC is reported to have told the lady bountyhunter "they haven't even found her clothes yet". Her shoes will be with those clothes I would imagine.

The question for me is...why did KC change Caylee's clothes?

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IMO, GA is mistaken about what Caylee was wearing that day. I don't see how anyone could remember such specific details from 'just a normal day' after an entire month had passed. Also IMO, the female bounty hunter may have misheard, misinterpreted or mis-relayed (grammer :waitasec what KC said, or it may have been another of KC's mis-clues!

Personally, I don't believe there are any 'other clothes' - I think Caylee was last wearing what she was found with.

Wow! You guys are good at what you do here.

I would have never in a million years thought anything of Caylee not having her shoes on when she was taken to the "sitter" or put in the car.

My best friend brings her son over for me to watch and if he was napping before she left she puts him in the car without putting shoes on him. She brings them for me but alot of times they are not on him.

I even used to do the same thing with my kids. Come to think of it, my kids (2 teenagers and 2 almost teenagers) still walk out without their shoes on and put them on in the car or carry them into the friends house they are getting dropped off at.

In addition to her not being found with shoes, it has always bugged me that Cindy said in the Greta interview that she washed Caylee's sheets every week since she has been missing. Huh? Why did she keep washing the sheets over and over and over? What was on those sheets? Chloroform? Blood? And she certainly knew the blanket was missing. Hmmmm...between Caylee being found with her blanket, no shoes, and Cindy washing those sheets over and over again, I think Caylee was killed in her bed.

Devon said:

IMO, GA is mistaken about what Caylee was wearing that day. I don't see how anyone could remember such specific details from 'just a normal day' after an entire month had passed. Also IMO, the female bounty hunter may have misheard, misinterpreted or mis-relayed (grammer :waitasec what KC said, or it may have been another of KC's mis-clues!

Personally, I don't believe there are any 'other clothes' - I think Caylee was last wearing what she was found with.

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ITA....I can barely remember what I wore last Thursday, let alone what someone else was wearing a month ago. IIRC, GA even said Casey was wearing some type of grey dress pants with a description similar to those from the car that CA had washed.

sayd said:

In addition to her not being found with shoes, it has always bugged me that Cindy said in the Greta interview that she washed Caylee's sheets every week since she has been missing. Huh? Why did she keep washing the sheets over and over and over? What was on those sheets? Chloroform? Blood? And she certainly knew the blanket was missing. Hmmmm...between Caylee being found with her blanket, no shoes, and Cindy washing those sheets over and over again, I think Caylee was killed in her bed.

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It has always struck me as very odd that CA would wash the sheets like that as well. Heaven forbid, if something were to happen to my hubby today, I don't know how long it would be before I could bear to wash my sheets and pillowcases. (I know that may sound gross, but bear with me here.) When he leaves in the morning, I gravitate, in my sleep, to his side of the bed. Why? Because of his smell. I can smell him on the pillowcase, sheets, anything his body touches. Now, I'm not saying he stinks or anything! Lol! But, I think most of you know what I mean. Everyone, especially children, has their own unique smell. My great-nephew, who I have almost raised, has his own pillow and it smells just like him. When I don't get to see him for a day or two, I cuddle his pillow and can smell him on it. So, having said that, I find it almost unbelievable that CA would do this. I would think smelling that baby on her bedding, toys, etc. would be some kind of comfort or relief that CA would not want to so readily do away with. Unless, there was something she really had to get rid of, even at the cost of losing that childs smell.

It's really hot in FL in the summer, and one would think it would be great for a kid to be barefoot in the grass, but the presence of fire ants make it an unwise choice. Kids will usually screw up once like that, but after an attack by fire ants, they'll beg for shoes before venturing outside. Fire ants hurt! So for this reason alone, I think shoes, or the lack thereof, may be pivotal in this case. Where was little Caylee without her shoes? Home would be a good guess to me.

akashana said:

It's really hot in FL in the summer, and one would think it would be great for a kid to be barefoot in the grass, but the presence of fire ants make it an unwise choice. Kids will usually screw up once like that, but after an attack by fire ants, they'll beg for shoes before venturing outside. Fire ants hurt! So for this reason alone, I think shoes, or the lack thereof, may be pivotal in this case. Where was little Caylee without her shoes? Home would be a good guess to me.

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Yep....and I hate the way this sounds....but, shoes are hard enough to put on a child when they're trying to "help" you to get them on. I'm thinking getting shoes on a child you just murdered might not be an easy "feat".....probably the last thing on your mind, anyways.

Re washing the sheets, I can think of a good reason to do so. Dogs on the bed. i have 6 dogs, 5 of whom live inside. I keep them clean with regular baths, but they are still dogs and when they sleep on my bed (which 4 of them do every night), they get "dog grit" on the bed. I know that at least some of you -dog people- know exactly what I mean by dog grit! I wash my sheets every couple of days because of it. I know the A's have at least two indoor dogs, and I imagine that they missed playing with their little buddy after Caylee went missing. They probably were comforted by sleeping in her room, on her bed. So it would make sense that if Cindy initially believed her to be coming home, she would have routinely stripped the bed to keep it clean for when Caylee came home.

sayd said:

In addition to her not being found with shoes, it has always bugged me that Cindy said in the Greta interview that she washed Caylee's sheets every week since she has been missing. Huh? Why did she keep washing the sheets over and over and over? What was on those sheets? Chloroform? Blood? And she certainly knew the blanket was missing. Hmmmm...between Caylee being found with her blanket, no shoes, and Cindy washing those sheets over and over again, I think Caylee was killed in her bed.

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:waitasec:
that bothers me also... & certainly I would NOT be broadcasting it!!

Weird... talking about air dirty laundry
talking about doing the laundry !

clean / or other wise.... I feel it is weird to make the statements
to the PRESS....

perhaps to the LE/ ? but even still.... what is this accomplishing ?
what is the M E S S A G E ?

JMO
God Bless!
jjgram

MyTinkieGirl said:

ITA....I can barely remember what I wore last Thursday, let alone what someone else was wearing a month ago. IIRC, GA even said Casey was wearing some type of grey dress pants with a description similar to those from the car that CA had washed.

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:waitasec:
:waitasec: Unless........... at that point... when she walked out...
they GA/CA knew... and talked about it... HAD STRANGE FEELINGS>>.
about it... KC left on Monday...noon... did NOT come home that
nite.. :waitasec:and did Not come home next day... SO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
GA/CA could have truly started to worry right then.........:waitasec:
and made a mental note.... and NOW..........Know "ALL" they
are not N O T .... going to say...
"OH YES>>> I was worried from the very 1st day ! !? " cause
they would L@@K bad !!!:waitasec:

JMO

God Bless
jjgram

*** the whole thing *stinks* ! ! ! ! I have Not liked it
from the get go !!!! * S T I N K S * !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:furious: :furious: :furious:

passionflower said:

I always have thought that baby CAYLEE died in the home.
Ready for bed......no shoes.
kc was in a fit of rage........shut Caylee up and hid her outside at night.........
then to the car trunk.
GA lied and never saw them leave the next day,IMO
collar off shirt and in 2 places....was it cut? sliced? ripped? blood evidence on it?

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I've also felt that Caylee died at the Anthony home, which would explain why she didn't have shoes on.

The one thing that really has me puzzled is this.........the fight between Casey and Cindy on June 15th probably took place after Caylee was asleep for the night, and Caylee would have been in her pajamas (no shoes). If Caylee was killed in a rage after the fight, she would have been found in pjs. But Caylee's remains were found with shorts and the remains of a tee shirt, indicating that she was killed during daytime hours when she'd be dressed for playing.

That leads me to think that Casey came back to the house after she knew both parents were gone for the day and killed Caylee there. It would make sense this way - Caylee dressed in shorts and a tee-shirt and playing in the house or backyard barefoot.

Leila said:

I've also felt that Caylee died at the Anthony home, which would explain why she didn't have shoes on.

The one thing that really has me puzzled is this.........the fight between Casey and Cindy on June 15th probably took place after Caylee was asleep for the night, and Caylee would have been in her pajamas (no shoes). If Caylee was killed in a rage after the fight, she would have been found in pjs. But Caylee's remains were found with shorts and the remains of a tee shirt, indicating that she was killed during daytime hours when she'd be dressed for playing.

That leads me to think that Casey came back to the house after she knew both parents were gone for the day and killed Caylee there. It would make sense this way - Caylee dressed in shorts and a tee-shirt and playing in the house or backyard barefoot.

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or put to bed in her clothes by a lazy or tired adult.