GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #2

Okay, back to Kiesha and my hunt for what was seized from the unit in the beginning.....

Back in thread 1, I posted about what was said on the news about items being taken...

"Channel 7 news just reported a vacuum and paperwork have been siezed from the home.

Another report said units door had been siezed for forensic testing".(channel 9)



Then the next day, I found a link to back up that info which I posted...

Police confirmed they seized a vacuum cleaner, a computer and clothing from Mr Smith and Ms Abrahams' house.

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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...on-of-girls-body/story-e6frf7l6-1225901863985

But when you click on that link now, there is no mention of the items seized. :waitasec:

Nursebeeme posted another link a short time later that including the same info, but worded slightly differently.

Police last night confirmed they seized a vacuum cleaner, a computer and clothing from Mr Smith and Ms Abrahams' house for forensic testing.

Click to expand...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/n...-1225902309714

At first I thought I must have gotten my links mixed up, but since the wording is different, those details must have been removed from the original article I posted.
WHY? :waitasec:

I'm still trying to figure out why Kiesha's mattress wasn't one of the first items to be collected for testing, and wasn't taken until new (but unknown to the public) allegations were made, which police said were significant to the case.
Why would they remove a vacuum cleaner before the mattress in her room that she was allegedly taken from?

butwhatif? said:

Okay, back to Kiesha and my hunt for what was seized from the unit in the beginning.....

Back in thread 1, I posted about what was said on the news about items being taken...

"Channel 7 news just reported a vacuum and paperwork have been siezed from the home.

Another report said units door had been siezed for forensic testing".(channel 9)



Then the next day, I found a link to back up that info which I posted...



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...on-of-girls-body/story-e6frf7l6-1225901863985

But when you click on that link now, there is no mention of the items seized. :waitasec:

Nursebeeme posted another link a short time later that including the same info, but worded slightly differently.



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/n...-1225902309714

At first I thought I must have gotten my links mixed up, but since the wording is different, those details must have been removed from the original article I posted.
WHY? :waitasec:

I'm still trying to figure out why Kiesha's mattress wasn't one of the first items to be collected for testing, and wasn't taken until new (but unknown to the public) allegations were made, which police said were significant to the case.
Why would they remove a vacuum cleaner before the mattress in her room that she was allegedly taken from?

Click to expand...

FWIW, here is my :twocents:

Perhaps the reason Kiesha's mattress wasn't taken sooner was because it had a plastic cover on it and it didn't contain any visible stains on it which otherwise would have alerted police to suspect foul play was involved. Many children wet their bed at Kiesha's age, and since I suspect Kiesha was a bed wetter, it's possible her mattress had a plastic cover over it which would allow someone to wipe it clean. Stains, such as urine and blood, left on cloth mattresses are visible to the naked eye.

Also, the police believed Kiesha may have wandered off on her own or she had been abducted; so initially the case was classified a missing child’s case and not a homicide case. Police cannot reclassify a case without evidence and after police received “new allegations” they returned to the unit and removed several items including her mattress. This occurred after an eye witness came forward and reported to police that he saw Robert Smith beating Kiesha in the face and a psychic reported she saw Kiesha’s body in bushland behind Amelia Way at Bidwell.

The reason specialist homicide detectives took charge of the hunt for the child 3 days after Kiesha was reported missing was because “it's a sensible move on the police's part to provide the best expertise, so having homicide and sex crimes on board is for that reason." The homicide and sex crimes units joined police when a special strike force, codenamed Jarocin, was set up to co-ordinate the investigation after a massive and intense search by police, emergency workers, and volunteers which took place over several days failed to locate Kiesha. Without signs of a struggle or incriminating evidence to suggest foul play had occurred inside the home, the police had no reason at that point in time to confiscate items in the home and therefore we didn’t see items seized until after fresh information was obtained by Police.

<snipped>

"We've got to look at whether she is likely to have wandered off - which certainly could be the case - and we've got to look further down the track if it's something more sinister such as an abduction."

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/fears-grow-for-missing-girl-keisha-20100802-111oy.html

Det Insp Oxford appealed for anyone who may have seen Kiesha in the last few weeks to come forward, as a special strike force, codenamed Jarocin, was set up to co-ordinate the investigation.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/kieshas-parents-going-through-hell-20100803-113n7.html

The mere fact that homicide became involved in this investigation ... is simply just the fact that it's a sensible move on the police's part to provide the best expertise, so having homicide and sex crimes on board [is for that reason]."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-kiesha-mother-breaks-down-at-briefing-20100803-11434.html

The mother and stepfather of missing six-year-old Kiesha Abrahams say they are going through hell over her disappearance, as specialist homicide detectives take charge of the hunt for the child.

As the search for the western Sydney girl entered its third day on Tuesday, police said they were puzzled no one except her parents appeared to have seen Kiesha in the last three weeks.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/kieshas-parents-going-through-hell-20100803-113n7.html

A DRAMATIC second raid was made on the home of missing Sydney girl Kiesha Abrahams yesterday after police received fresh allegations.
They emerged carrying internal doors, skirting boards, rolls of carpet, and what appeared to be a child's mattress. Police would not elaborate on what new information they had received, other than to say it was "significant to the case".

Detectives interviewed western Sydney man, Albert Lafaele, after he claimed he saw Mr Smith punching Kiesha outside the Hebersham Friendly Grocer store two or three weeks ago.

A psychic has also described to police a vision of Kiesha in bushland behind Amelia Way at Bidwell.

http://www.news.com.au/national/kie...er/story-e6frfkvr-1225903160022#ixzz0zzROQBIK

Kiesha Abraham's parents have mobile phones siezed by police.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...siezed-by-police/story-e6freuy9-1225926442857

Hello, I'm new here and have read through all of the posts (parts 1 and 2). Like the rest of you, there isn't a day that goes by where I don't think of Kiesha and hope it will be the day she is found. I'm also very hopeful that the siezed mobile phones will contain the information the police need to find Kiesha and put an end to this tragic case.

Kiesha's mother Kristi Abrahams and her stepfather Robert Smith were forced to hand over their phones to homicide detectives late last week, The Daily Telegraph reports.

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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/7964055/kieshas-parents-have-mobile-phones-taken

Late last week? Why so long?

We all know that in any missing child case they focus on the family first, and move outward from there.

The revelations about Kieshas contact with welfare agencies, was all the more reason to focus on the family.

They don't need the phone itself to look at call logs and work out pings, so they must be hoping there may be something else on those phones....but what?

I'd be shocked and very disappointed if the D's didn't download the info from their phones during previous interviews. But maybe they did, and now they need the phones as evidence for the case they are building against them.

Either way....this certainly looks like Kristi and Rob are the number 1 suspects to the police. And hopefully that means we might be seeing an arrest soon.

It'll be interesting to see if the media try to get a comment on this from K&R.
JMO

Bluesky#1 said:

FWIW, here is my :twocents:

Perhaps the reason Kiesha's mattress wasn't taken sooner was because it had a plastic cover on it and it didn't contain any visible stains on it which otherwise would have alerted police to suspect foul play was involved. Many children wet their bed at Kiesha's age, and since I suspect Kiesha was a bed wetter, it's possible her mattress had a plastic cover over it which would allow someone to wipe it clean. Stains, such as urine and blood, left on cloth mattresses are visible to the naked eye.

Also, the police believed Kiesha may have wandered off on her own or she had been abducted; so initially the case was classified a missing child’s case and not a homicide case.

Click to expand...

Respectfully snipped~

I don't think it would have taken long for the police to figure out she didn't just wander off. And if they did suspect a stranger abduction, then the perp would have likely left some kind of evidence behind.

The most likely place being the bed since that's where she was allegedly sleeping and stolen from. Even if it was covered in plastic, there's still a good chance they could find trace evidence- which could lead them to an unknown perp who may already be in the database. Even if a plastic sheet is wiped clean, it's unlikely that all evidence would be removed....only to the naked eye.

I'm not trying to critisize the police ....I know they have worked their butts off in the serach for Kiesha. And it didn't help that they had some very experienced liars (IMO) to work with.

I actually believe Robs mum when she claimed that all the talk of DoCS and abuse was rubbish....well that she belived it was rubbish anyway.

If they can pull the wool over the eyes of someone that close, then they are good at what they do when it comes to lying and covering up.

JMO

Makara said:

Kiesha Abraham's parents have mobile phones siezed by police.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...siezed-by-police/story-e6freuy9-1225926442857

Hello, I'm new here and have read through all of the posts (parts 1 and 2). Like the rest of you, there isn't a day that goes by where I don't think of Kiesha and hope it will be the day she is found. I'm also very hopeful that the siezed mobile phones will contain the information the police need to find Kiesha and put an end to this tragic case.

Click to expand...

:Welcome-12-june: :Welcome-12-june: :Welcome-12-june:

Welcome to websleuths Makara! Thanks for the link, and make sure you stick around and keep posting along with us.

Snipped just a tiny bit of your post butwhatif? to discuss:

Kieshas parents have mobile phones taken - article.

butwhatif? said:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/7964055/kieshas-parents-have-mobile-phones-taken

Late last week? Why so long?

Click to expand...

Im wondering if these might be the second time phones have been taken? As you say, they do look at the family first and you would assume the phone is one of the first things that are checked. I remember early on, Kristi's father tried to phone her but the phone was off. Could the police have taken it back then? Although knowing these two, they switched them off themselves....

In the photo attached to this article ( http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/our-kiesha-is-alive-and-well-say-mum-and-stepfather/story-fn3dxity-1225917915597 ) Robert is holding an iPhone, I wonder if they want to try and find out whats been deleted off it?

oreily85 said:

Snipped just a tiny bit of your post butwhatif? to discuss:

Kieshas parents have mobile phones taken - article.


Im wondering if these might be the second time phones have been taken? As you say, they do look at the family first and you would assume the phone is one of the first things that are checked. I remember early on, Kristi's father tried to phone her but the phone was off. Could the police have taken it back then? Although knowing these two, they switched them off themselves....

In the photo attached to this article ( http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/our-kiesha-is-alive-and-well-say-mum-and-stepfather/story-fn3dxity-1225917915597 ) Robert is holding an iPhone, I wonder if they want to try and find out whats been deleted off it?

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BBM-
Yep, definately a possibility....or maybe they got a tip that they each have more than one phone? Or that they got bat phones after the fact, which can't be traced with a warrant from the phone provider, so they need the actual phones.....so many possibilities.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the deposited money that no one has heard anything else about.......

but I worked for telstra and they definitely can, once get the nod, get the phone records.....so I am wondering why they would need the actual phones.......

One thing about telstra......they can not see the number been called from prepaid mobiles............so I suppose I have just answered my own question, they must have prepaids and they are wanting to see who called them and who they have called.....

sorry to ramble, am thinking as I type...............one thing is for sure, they are definitely number one suspects..........

I still have a glimmer of hope she is alive, and they are calling who ever they "sold" her too......

Some of you may be familiar with Brian Ladd who does RV's on missing person's cases.
I checked his website, Brian's Dreams and he does not have an RV posted for Kiesha Abrahams. I couldn't find a way to contact Brian directly to make a request so I sent an email to his assistant Debra with a media link and Kiesha's DOB.

Debra and Gale St. John are traveling to Colon Township Michigan to search for Venus Rose Stewart and Brian will be providing support on the phone and computer so I don't know when Deb will have a chance to respond to my email.

If anyone knows how to contact Brian directly, please do so. TY

I am going to contact a psychic who works on missing child's case to request a reading for Kiesha.

butwhatif? said:

Just sent an email asking about the Blacktown thing and if they know Kristis DOB. They don't know the actual time of Kieshas birth (for the FA's) unfortunately.

ETA: Also googled Kiesha Abrahams missing persons flyer and a FB group listed her as last seen in July.....so that could be were the July thing comes in.

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is there anyway to get a copy of her birth certificate? Not sure how that works in Australia.

westsidefox64 said:

is there anyway to get a copy of her birth certificate? Not sure how that works in Australia.

Click to expand...

Don't think so. I started looking it up the other day, but got distracted by real life stuff....bit of family drama going on atm.

Interesting that on the daily telegraph homepage, they have the headline as
"Police seize mobile phones. Mystery calls"..

Hang on, I'll get a screenshot....



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/

Could just be speculation and/or an attempt at sensationalising on the part of journo's, since the articles mention nothing about 'mysterious' calls.

But it would be interesting if these mystery phone calls coincided with the mysterious money deposits.

Finally some movement on this case and a news story! Let's hope this is just the start.

Forgot to say...

"Can we say cell phone pings?"

Their story about the last time they saw Keisha is going to be blown out the water if the police are able to access the cell phone pings.

butwhatif? said:

Interesting that on the daily telegraph homepage, they have the headline as
"Police seize mobile phones. Mystery calls"..

Hang on, I'll get a screenshot....

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/

Could just be speculation and/or an attempt at sensationalising on the part of journo's, since the articles mention nothing about 'mysterious' calls.

But it would be interesting if these mystery phone calls coincided with the mysterious money deposits.

Click to expand...

I'd say it is more woeful journalistic reporting. The journalists probably wouldn't have a clue about cell phone pings and have just assumed it would be about phone calls.

We shouldn't over estimate the level of competence when it comes to the media in this country. The media have done some extremely sloppy reporting in regards to this case and don't seem to be able to get even the basic facts correct.

once again after working for telstra can tell you now that they can not prove exactly where people are here from the phone towers........gather "cell phone pings" is an american terminology is that correct????? can certainly tell what area people are in when a call was made from the phone, but sometimes it can go from say one of two or three towers......but still it does narrow down an area......when i worked there 3 years ago now, the info about what mobile phone tower was used was not recorded from prepaid mobiles........this may have changed now......

butwhatif? said:

Still I'd assume the first thing they would take would be Kieshas mattress, if it was thought she was taken from her bed. :waitasec:

And why were floor plans needed? Or is that SOP?

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butwhatif? said:

Why would they remove a vacuum cleaner before the mattress in her room that she was allegedly taken from?

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sbm

You would assume that would be the first thing they would do...but they don't.

Haleigh Cummings
Elizabeth Smart

I never heard a thing about either one of them having their mattress taken. Haleigh's case is quite similar to Kiesha's as far as suspicion on family as well.

As far as floor plans I think that was very wise. After Annie Le...Jon Benet...knowing if there was any places that used to be small closets but now are just walls...knowing if there is a small downstairs room somewhere. All would be good to know.

Removing a vacuum before a mattress would tell me they were immediately suspicious that she was not abducted. Because if she WAS, then nothing would have been cleaned up. They must have suspected that the vacuum had been used for something that they would want to know about.

butwhatif? said:

Is the fact that she says 'She used to come over to my house' a lil odd? Wonder when and why the visits stopped?:waitasec:

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sbm


Since she said she had seen her 3 weeks earlier...I am getting the impression that visits stopped when Kiesha disappeared.

Thank you for the welcome butwhatif? I have a few opinions that I'd like to put forward here. Firstly the media release two weeks ago that police were close to making an arrest was IMO orchestrated by police. Apparently police will do this and then closely watch their suspect(s) for any movement, i.e. returning to the scene of the crime to cover evidence or remove a body etc. Perpetrators will also get nervous and make phone calls or send text messages to others who may have been involved in the crime. IMO the police did not confiscate the mobile phones earlier because they wanted to see what would show up on them down the track.

To remove items from Kiesha's home the police would've needed a warrant issued by a magistrate. This is not a simple process. The police have to state the reasons why they want the warrant based on the evidence they already have. Similarly the same thing would have happened with the mobile phones. The police once again would have needed to apply for a warrant to seize the phones and have a very good reason for doing so.

K & R would have probably suspected that their home phone and house had been bugged by the police. Their only alternative was to use their mobile phones to send text messages thinking that once the text messages were deleted they could no longer be found on their phone. Wrong! Deleted files can be located on the sms card and the police have this facility. The time and place any calls or text messages were sent would very relevant. Police would obviously have asked K & R what time they went to bed on the night before Kiesha disappeared. Was there any activity on the phones in the early hours of Sunday morning while they were supposedly asleep?

I know it's very frustrating that we've not heard much about the case over the last few weeks but I feel the police are working their behinds off to find out what happened to Kiesha. If we were still hearing through the media "Police are appealing for help in finding Kiesha Abrahams...." I would be more concerned but that's not the case. I think they are playing their cards close to their chest and an arrest is imminent. :Justice: