GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #10

Coldpizza · Mar 12, 2015

Becky Watts' trial: The evidence so far
October 17, 2015

THE heartbreaking trial of Becky Watts reached its eighth day this week.

The jury at Bristol Crown Court has heard details of how the 16-year-old's stepbrother Nathan Matthews and his girlfriend Shauna Hoare are alleged to have kidnapped and murdered the teenager. They both deny the charges.

Her body parts were found in a shed in Barton Court in March.

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Media Thread

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FIND Rebecca WATTS

Avon and Somerset Constabulary

Rebecca Watts Case Map credit to skibaboo

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Coldpizza · Oct 27, 2015

Becky Watts trial latest: Matthews tells court of the moment he killed Becky

October 27, 2015

Warning readers may find some of the content in this article distressing or upsetting

Nathan Matthews told a court he had been planning for a couple of months to teach Becky Watts a lesson.

Matthews has resumed giving evidence in his murder trial and has explained why he planned to kidnap his 16-year-old step-sister.

He told the jury he had thought of "trying to scare Becky" for a few months and planned to "get her in the suitcase" then get her in the car.

skibaboo · Oct 27, 2015

Threads are coming think and fast! Marking my spot in this one!

Wallace · Oct 27, 2015

Having quickly skimmed today's testimony a couple of quick observations.

1. NM mentions things not going according to 'The Plan' not 'My Plan'.

2. NM mentions doing what he did (dismemberment) to 'protect everybody'. Who does he mean by everybody? He claims to have acted entirely alone.

3. He can't explain why things happened they way they did, vague on details in many many areas.

4. His story about handcuffing her and putting her into the suitcase is not compatible with her injuries. According to his story she appears to have completely cooperated until he placed in the suitcase. Yet the forensic evidence shows that she put up a hell of a fight.

5. He appears to be trying to remember a story he is meant to be sticking to.

6. It takes 3 or 4 minutes to smoke a cigarette, 5 if you push it. It doesn't take 20 minutes. Yet conveniently SH takes more than the time it takes to kill Becky, hide her body and clear up. Yeah right.

7. Where was he planning to get the £10k from if the Police failed to find the body?

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

there is a problem with his story from the word go. he enters the house with suitcase, black bag, hand cuffs, stun gun, sellotape and mask.

he places the suitcase in the spare room. puts mask on and has sellotape ready in his hands when Becky opens the door.

he used the sellotape around Becky's mouth. perhaps he had the hand cuffs in his pocket, but what about the stun gun? where is that? when does he use it and how does he hold it while wrapping a roll of tape around Becky's mouth? did he take scissors to cut the tape? or use his teeth? bit awkward with a mask on. and he doesn't use the sellotape just this once either. there's more on Becky's eyes and then joining the eyes and mouth.

and then suddenly he's forcing her in to the case. he doesn't mention how he got the case there or taking her to the spare room, unless none of the reporters mentioned it. was there room in the spare room for this struggle he talks of with getting Becky in the case?

I think this is the spare room -

http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/

Becky didn't sustain 40 injuries by compliantly kneeling and then with her hands cuffed behind her back, wriggling and kicking a bit when he tried to get her in a suitcase.

Cherwell · Oct 27, 2015

Just bringing over my post from the end of the last thread

Quote Originally Posted by Clio

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-W...#ixzz3pnUt8FPX

If his plan was to kidnap Becky and release her unharmed, what was the black bin bag originally for?

That's another strange thing. I would have thought the most effective way would be to wait with the bin bag in his hands, and pull it down over her head as soon as she opened the door. Rather than try winding sellotape round her mouth. She wouldn't have seen his face when the mask allegedly fell off either.

And a point about feeding the rabbit. Someone said that it only takes a minute to feed a rabbit. But it might be a different matter if it involves a two-year old child and a bag of lettuce.

eneri12 · Oct 27, 2015

Wallace said:
Having quickly skimmed today's testimony a couple of quick observations.

1. NM mentions things not going according to 'The Plan' not 'My Plan'.

2. NM mentions doing what he did (dismemberment) to 'protect everybody'. Who does he mean by everybody? He claims to have acted entirely alone.

3. He can't explain why things happened they way they did, vague on details in many many areas.

4. His story about handcuffing her and putting her into the suitcase is not compatible with her injuries. According to his story she appears to have completely cooperated until he placed in the suitcase. Yet the forensic evidence shows that she put up a hell of a fight.

5. He appears to be trying to remember a story he is meant to be sticking to.

6. It takes 3 or 4 minutes to smoke a cigarette, 5 if you push it. It doesn't take 20 minutes. Yet conveniently SH takes more than the time it takes to kill Becky, hide her body and clear up. Yeah right.

7. Where was he planning to get the £10k from if the Police failed to find the body?

Wallace you've totally matched my train if thoughts there. [emoji1]

I've just caught up on 2 days worth of posts in this thread as well as the UK crimes against children Facebook posts and wanted to add my thoughts.

Re the fainting thing NM referred to, sadly that was a game that was played when I was at school (I'm 33 so a few years older than NM) and I vaguely remember a story about a child dying from doing this that floated about at the time and scared us all into not doing it.

NMs wording around 'the plan' and 'protecting people' leads me back to my initial thoughts last week/week before that he is covering for SH. I agree with many posters that he should be able to remember and go into more details than he has so his statements and words in court don't really add up for me. A huge part of me still believes SH was involved in the killing of RW but perhaps NM took care of the covering up to protect her/their child and unborn children. JMO.

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

And while I think about it, his reason for killing Becky was, so he said, that his mask slipped and he panicked because she saw him. Nowhere in his version today did he mention Becky seeing him. He said he told her to keep her eyes shut, put his hands over her eyes and taped them shut. Where has the reason for the killing gone to?

Alyce · Oct 27, 2015

Tortoise said:
there is a problem with his story from the word go. he enters the house with suitcase, black bag, hand cuffs, stun gun, sellotape and mask.

he places the suitcase in the spare room. puts mask on and has sellotape ready in his hands when Becky opens the door.

he used the sellotape around Becky's mouth. perhaps he had the hand cuffs in his pocket, but what about the stun gun? where is that? when does he use it and how does he hold it while wrapping a roll of tape around Becky's mouth? did he take scissors to cut the tape? or use his teeth? bit awkward with a mask on. and he doesn't use the sellotape just this once either. there's more on Becky's eyes and then joining the eyes and mouth.

and then suddenly he's forcing her in to the case. he doesn't mention how he got the case there or taking her to the spare room, unless none of the reporters mentioned it. was there room in the spare room for this struggle he talks of with getting Becky in the case?

I think this is the spare room -

http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/

Becky didn't sustain 40 injuries by compliantly kneeling and then with her hands cuffed behind her back, wriggling and kicking a bit when he tried to get her in a suitcase.

And while he is wrapping the sellotape around Becky's mouth - which, NM tells us, is the first thing he did ! - this means that Becky has two free hands with which to fight him off

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

Thank you Coldpizza, sorry I forgot to add the link for the photo!

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

Alyce said:
And while he is wrapping the sellotape around Becky's mouth - which, NM tells us, is the first thing he did ! - this means that Becky has two free hands with which to fight him off

and two feet to kick him with. it just didn't happen like this. he would have wound up with his hands bound together in his own roll of sticky tape.

Scorpio5 · Oct 27, 2015

I don't mean this to sound flippant but even the fact that he didn't have to spend five minutes trying to find the start of the sellotape should be enough enough to show that he is lying, let alone everything else that appeared to be a figment of his mind.

Dion · Oct 27, 2015

If, as NM says, he planned on taping Becky's mouth shut, handcuffing her, and placing her in a suitcase, and then taking her to a wooded area. She could easily have suffocated in the suitcase, so she would have died anyway.

He also said he put cellotape over her eyes - I don't know what was the purpose of this, she would have known it was him by this time (probably heard their car arrive and who else would be in her house), and he would have needed assistance to do this, cellotape is very sticky and hard to manage, let alone using it on a live person.

Why try and disguise his appearance anyway - was he going to reveal himself when they reached the "wooded area". Did he think she would keep quiet about her ordeal?

I don't believe a word he says anyway. I think the plan was to kidnap Becky and take her back to their place, so all this wooded area and other stuff IMO is just something he has made up.

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

Scorpio5 said:
I don't mean this to sound flippant but even the fact that he didn't have to spend five minutes trying to find the start of the sellotape should be enough enough to show that he is lying, let alone everything else that appeared to be a figment of his mind.

don't know how to do laughing smilies yet so I'll just say hahahaha very funny and So TRUE!

Foxymona · Oct 27, 2015

Sorry if any of this has been mentioned- have not had time to catch up- just thoughts- and if anyone wants to catch me up- much appreciated...
Things that hit me today...

3rd interview with SH- how do we know you are not involved etc? Her first response is about DNA- not horror and recoil- not OMG I could not kill and cut up a child or a family (extended kinda) member- DNA

NM is apparently in so much pain he can sneeze and be incapacitated... but in 20 minutes he can 'accidently' kill a child who put up some fight and carry that 9 stone dead weight down the stairs with no issues and he is NOT a big guy....

The bedroom window looks out over the hutch- SH hears nothing?

Who does without a bathroom for three days with a toddler and doesn't question why their partner is there all the time sawing stuff? I am no plumber but I know you do not normally saw a toilet if it is blocked without water (at best) everywhere!

She is abused? Ok so she can give him the marching orders over his hoarding habit and looking at her fb- sorry now- she does not fit the idea I have of a woman intending to leave or even fear her partner. Fat jokes yes- believe that bit- lots of ref to people spending money owed to you etc.

The searches- she had no idea according to her interview (2nd one) - she posted DG status from DAYS before mentioning searches! She knew, I knew, everyone knew- she was in no bubble.

Dion · Oct 27, 2015

Scorpio5 said:
I don't mean this to sound flippant but even the fact that he didn't have to spend five minutes trying to find the start of the sellotape should be enough enough to show that he is lying, let alone everything else that appeared to be a figment of his mind.

Exactly. How could one person manage to put the tape on someone who is fighting back at this point. Even with the assistance of SH, it would be difficult.

Jinkasaurus · Oct 27, 2015

What about this- SH and NM both wanted to have a three-some/rape of BW. They both end up in a brutal attack on her and she dies. But then let's say NM takes over the "getting rid of the body" part. SH knows what he's doing, but they decide she will play dumb.

So his story about the attempted kidnap is their fake account of how the kidnap was supposed to go - and they decided this would be a better story than them both attacking her. This version lets NM slightly off the hook, in their mind, because it allows him to minimize the brutality and violence of what was done to BW.

They decide together that when the police come sniffing around, NM's job is to tell the fake account of the kidnapping gone wrong, and SH's job is to pretend she knew nothing. And their shared goal is that at least one of them will look less bad, and can take care of their child.

Tortoise · Oct 27, 2015

This is a most strange case. I believe NM (and SH) went to the house that day with kidnap and not killing (at the house) in mind. But that's where it stops - there is no rhyme or reason. Take her back to the flat? she'll know where she is and they'll never get away with it. take her to the woods? she'll know exactly who took her there (from the voices even if she didn't recognise his body already) and they'll never get away with it. Either way it seems they would have to kill her for her not to talk afterwards.

So was the motive that day to kidnap and then kill?

Clio · Oct 27, 2015

I don't believe him either. If it didn’t happen like that then why is he lying about how Becky died?

Ignoring for a second the other charges and looking only at the murder charge.

1) His real actions are much more likely to result in a guilty verdict and he’s lying to protect himself
2) He wasn’t alone when Becky was killed. He’s lying to protect himself and SH
3) He wasn’t there when Becky was killed, He’s lying to protect SH

Any other reasons?

iclaudia · Oct 27, 2015

Jinkasaurus said:
What about this- SH and NM both wanted to have a three-some/rape of BW. They both end up in a brutal attack on her and she dies. But then let's say NM takes over the "getting rid of the body" part. SH knows what he's doing, but they decide she will play dumb.

So his story about the attempted kidnap is their fake account of how the kidnap was supposed to go - and they decided this would be a better story than them both attacking her. This version lets NM slightly off the hook, in their mind, because it allows him to minimize the brutality and violence of what was done to BW.

They decide together that when the police come sniffing around, NM's job is to tell the fake account of the kidnapping gone wrong, and SH's job is to pretend she knew nothing. And their shared goal is that at least one of them will look less bad, and can take care of their child.

Isn't one of the agreed facts that "None of SH fingerprints found in shed at 9 Barton court, or on any items of significance at 14 CML or 18 Crown hill" (Siobhan Robbins tweet from earlier today)?

GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #10

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