2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

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notthatsmart said:
Yeah thats how the other poster put it as well. This is the best example of what could have happened that I have heard yet. It just sounds impossible to me. I have used duct tape for years and have not seen this kind of deterioration. I did read bonds comparison post, and I loved it. However, it talks about exposed cotton. I sure wish the Fbi would have said that they felt the same way as you about the cotton, however, they didn't. thanks
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RBBM. NTS, come to the bright side finally, please? You are smarter than you let on and we all know that. IMO "it" does not really sound all that impossible to you at all. You are correct: we have all of us used duct tape for years and none of us has seen this kind of deterioration. This does not mean that what happened before/while/after Caylee ended up in that swamp/dump site did not happen. It just means that none of us has used duct tape in this manner on this sort of peri-mortem person in a situation that would expose duct tape to these particular types of influences. That is all. You ARE that smart at least NTS.

JMO as always.
 
notthatsmart said:
You will find here pc 21f is made without cotton. thanks

http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39
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and here's the link to the provided photo:

http://www.shurtape.com/LA_DesktopM...ape.com/Portals/0/ProductImages/PC_21F_FS.jpg

ViewImage.htm



ViewImage.htm
 
I am not seeing the reason for this debate. The FBI and the documents have not shown these pieces of tape to be a match. If they had, I am sure we would know about it. As a matter of fact news reports seem to indicate to me, that there is a general consensus at this time that the tape is NOT a match as well.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21145778/detail.html

There is much more on this topic within the docs themselves, but I just thought this article was interesting.
 
Astraea said:
I am not seeing the reason for this debate. The FBI and the documents have not shown these pieces of tape to be a match. If they had, I am sure we would know about it. As a matter of fact news reports seem to indicate to me, that there is a general consensus at this time that the tape is NOT a match as well.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21145778/detail.html

There is much more on this topic within the docs themselves, but I just thought this article was interesting.
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RBBM
No one's forcing anyone to debate:) :angel:

The article title is "Anthonys Release Reports on Duct Tape Tests," which doesn't exactly scream of validity to me, sorry.

First paragraph:
The attorney for Casey Anthony's parents released documents to the media Wednesday morning that he said raise serious questions about the state's scientific case.
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I truly don't understand this debate. It is a rare type of duct tape.



"Duct tape found both on Caylee Anthony’s body and a gas can found in the Anthony family home is a rare, industrial fire-resistant tape, according to a court filing Thursday by the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office"

"Only 134,719 rolls were sold in 2006 and 2007 in North America, according to the records submitted to the court Thursday"

"The odds of two pieces of randomly discovered duct tape manufactured in 2006 and 2007 being of that same, rare type approach 250,000 to 1"

"The FBI Laboratory in Quantico, VA, has already examined the tape samples found with the body and on the gas can and reported in December that they “are comparable to one another in all physical attributes and in the chemical composition of their backing and adhesive components. Therefore, they originated from the same source roll of tape or from rolls of tape manufactured in the same manner.”

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20713777/detail.html
State: Duct Tape In Anthony Case 'Rare'
Prosecution Plans To Link Tape Found On Caylee's Body To Gas Can
Tony Pipitone
POSTED: Thursday, September 3, 2009
UPDATED: 7:35 pm EDT September 3, 2009
(above quotes from article)
 
okiedokietoo said:
I truly don't understand this debate. It is a rare type of duct tape.



"Duct tape found both on Caylee Anthony’s body and a gas can found in the Anthony family home is a rare, industrial fire-resistant tape, according to a court filing Thursday by the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office"

"Only 134,719 rolls were sold in 2006 and 2007 in North America, according to the records submitted to the court Thursday"

"The odds of two pieces of randomly discovered duct tape manufactured in 2006 and 2007 being of that same, rare type approach 250,000 to 1"

"The FBI Laboratory in Quantico, VA, has already examined the tape samples found with the body and on the gas can and reported in December that they “are comparable to one another in all physical attributes and in the chemical composition of their backing and adhesive components. Therefore, they originated from the same source roll of tape or from rolls of tape manufactured in the same manner.”

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20713777/detail.html
State: Duct Tape In Anthony Case 'Rare'
Prosecution Plans To Link Tape Found On Caylee's Body To Gas Can
Tony Pipitone
POSTED: Thursday, September 3, 2009
UPDATED: 7:35 pm EDT September 3, 2009
(above quotes from article)
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The rareness of the tape is debatable. I really wish LE or the media would have went out to the Lowes and True Value and obtained real numbers for the Orlando area. To do an analysis of the entire nations population is not good enough. I am sure they use industrial tape in Orlando to prepare for hurricanes. At any rate, even though they did not go out to the actual stores, I am sure the defense did.

The story you posted was before the story broke of the duct tape not matching. So you are correct, up until that point, there was a match, however, on further examination of the fabric, it does not match. The story you cited was not accurate in saying all physical attributes. The fbi had not tested the fabric at that point.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21145778/detail.html


One other thing. They are not comparing the tape to the original gas can tape. They are comparing it to the Dec 11th gathering. The original tape on the can on Aug 1st is gone. The tape they found on that can on dec 11th was placed there after Kc was in jail. NOt sure they can use that as evidence.

Hope this helps to put this in context. thanks
 
notthatsmart said:
The rareness of the tape is debatable. I really wish LE or the media would have went out to the Lowes and True Value and obtained real numbers for the Orlando area. To do an analysis of the entire nations population is not good enough. I am sure they use industrial tape in Orlando to prepare for hurricanes. At any rate, even though they did not go out to the actual stores, I am sure the defense did.

The story you posted was before the story broke of the duct tape not matching. So you are correct, up until that point, there was a match, however, on further examination of the fabric, it does not match. The story you cited was not accurate in saying all physical attributes. The fbi had not tested the fabric at that point.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21145778/detail.html


One other thing. They are not comparing the tape to the original gas can tape. They are comparing it to the Dec 11th gathering. The original tape on the can on Aug 1st is gone. The tape they found on that can on dec 11th was placed there after Kc was in jail. NOt sure they can use that as evidence.

Hope this helps to put this in context. thanks
Click to expand...

:waitasec: huh
 
I have read this doc that you posted many times, but how do we know that is the model of tape Pc-621 that was found on Caylee? IIRC there is another model fd-30. There may be many models with the Henkel logo on it. IMO
 
This company gave their company information to LE - about how much was sold and to whom in the USA for the years 2006 and 2007. They don't have a horse in this race. There is no reason for them to (excuse the pun) fabricate the information.
 
Yes joypath did explain (beautifully I might add) one part of the topic, but it certainly does not discount the point that you have quoted.

I mean no offense to joypath, but I was under the impression that to call one an expert at WS, they needed to be verified. I am not saying that I dont believe her, but I also feel that it will be better to rely on the evidence of the experts who will be testifying on this matter. At this time I am only looking at the evidence that is available to me, and it says that the tape is microscopically dissimilar in regards to the fibres.
 
Astraea said:
Yes joypath did explain (beautifully I might add) one part of the topic, but it certainly does not discount the point that you have quoted.

I mean no offense to joypath, but I was under the impression that to call one an expert at WS, they needed to be verified. I am not saying that I dont believe her, but I also feel that it will be better to rely on the evidence of the experts who will be testifying on this matter. At this time I am only looking at the evidence that is available to me, and it says that the tape is microscopically dissimilar in regards to the fibres.
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That is correct.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92404"]Professional and Local Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Expert: somebody skilled or knowledgeable: somebody with a great deal of knowledge about, or skill, training, or experience in, a particular field or activity

I think there is some confusion between a WS "verified expert" compared to what the posters feel is a person who shares their experience and knowledge in a particular field in which they are employed. This should not be confused with a "verified expert" here at WS. Nonetheless, I respect those who work in the field and share their knowledge and educated opinions with us because they back their information with facts (which are available to us if we want to research out on the internet ourselves). What is great is the information is packaged for us so that we may better understand the evidence which has been released in discovery. If I make a mistake and accidently refer to them as an "expert" it is because I highly value the information they have been kind enough to share with us. We should all be grateful for the time and effort it takes to share this information. Sorry if I caused some confusion. jmo
 
Astraea said:
I hope this doent sound awful, but I am a relatively new poster here. I am just wondering if you are what we call a "Verified Expert"? If you are, could you please tell me in what areas? :D

Sorry to have to ask :blushing:
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Astraea: so sorry for the delayed response, mean no disrespect, thought I hit "enter" late last night with an answer! :blushing:

I am NOT, again NOT, a WS "Verified Expert" by choice (I've posted previously more details, suffice to say annonimity is mandated by the "powers that be" signing paychecks! ):crazy::crazy::crazy:

Heck, I know I wrote something cutsey last night but suffering from sleep depravation because of a case so I'll just admit to an long standing interest/addiction/avocation/calling/mission/niche/purview within the trifecta of pathology.


:woohoo:BUT I WILL REMEMBER TO GIVE A loud, hearty "THANK YOU" shout out to all the unsung heroes of the laboratory services for National Medical Laboratory Professionals Week April 18-24, 2010:woohoo:
 
joypath said:
Astraea: so sorry for the delayed response, mean no disrespect, thought I hit "enter" late last night with an answer! :blushing:

I am NOT, again NOT, a WS "Verified Expert" by choice (I've posted previously more details, suffice to say annonimity is mandated by the "powers that be" signing paychecks! ):crazy::crazy::crazy:

Heck, I know I wrote something cutsey last night but suffering from sleep depravation because of a case so I'll just admit to an long standing interest/addiction/avocation/calling/mission/niche/purview within the trifecta of pathology.


:woohoo:BUT I WILL REMEMBER TO GIVE A loud, hearty "THANK YOU" shout out to all the unsung heroes of the laboratory services for National Medical Laboratory Professionals Week April 18-24, 2010:woohoo:
Click to expand...


And "THANK YOU" joypath for all you do to help us understand some of the pathology reports released with discovery. Your input is very much appreciated and valued here. Separating fact from fiction I believe is everyone's goal. And we get a chance to learn something for a change. How perfect is that!!!! LOL
 
notthatsmart said:
The rareness of the tape is debatable. I really wish LE or the media would have went out to the Lowes and True Value and obtained real numbers for the Orlando area. To do an analysis of the entire nations population is not good enough. I am sure they use industrial tape in Orlando to prepare for hurricanes. At any rate, even though they did not go out to the actual stores, I am sure the defense did.

The story you posted was before the story broke of the duct tape not matching. So you are correct, up until that point, there was a match, however, on further examination of the fabric, it does not match. The story you cited was not accurate in saying all physical attributes. The fbi had not tested the fabric at that point.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21145778/detail.html


One other thing. They are not comparing the tape to the original gas can tape. They are comparing it to the Dec 11th gathering. The original tape on the can on Aug 1st is gone. The tape they found on that can on dec 11th was placed there after Kc was in jail. NOt sure they can use that as evidence.

Hope this helps to put this in context. thanks
Click to expand...

Mmmm - re the tape on the gas can? Plus the tape on Caylee? They were talking about the tape in the Anthony home. Who put the tape on the gas cans is irrelevant but where the tape came from is. Did they both come from the Anthony home?
 
The pictures with the tape on gas can were from July when LE removed them. They tested them and returned them to the A's. The same piece of tape was still on the can when they recollected them in December. This was covered a couple of different times when this issue has come up. It's hard to argue when they have pictures. jmo
 
notthatsmart said:
The rareness of the tape is debatable. I really wish LE or the media would have went out to the Lowes and True Value and obtained real numbers for the Orlando area. To do an analysis of the entire nations population is not good enough. I am sure they use industrial tape in Orlando to prepare for hurricanes. At any rate, even though they did not go out to the actual stores, I am sure the defense did.
Click to expand...
snipped and bbm
I find it intriguing that "you are sure the defense did".
May I ask where this certainty is coming from?
 
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