AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

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I was just thinking about WIC too, but at EJ's hearing, the attorney said she paid for everything with cash. I know nothing about the WIC program. Would WIC be traceable, or is it more like using a coupon from the Sunday paper?

Good thinking! I believe you have to sign the WIC coupons and sometimes show ID. The ID thing depends on the store. If the store is used to the coupons there is usually no problem just signing and going straight through.

AND.... I'm thinking that some states now have WIC cards that are very similar to debit cards. They are scanned and the items are deducted... I need to look that one up but I swear I just saw a lady use a WIC debit type card the other day.... Hmmmmmm....

Salem
 
Not meaning to give up a successful find of an alive baby Gabriel, I'm thinking the worst is possible.

I want to go back to the last ping from the cell phone. 27th or 28th, depending on how you count if you go by the 3 days prior to EJ's arrest. If on the 27th, would indicate someone either calling out or a call coming in and from what I've read it was bounced off a tower near Victoria TX. If on the 28th, could mean the phone battery was dying, don't know. Nevertheless, if EJ had never been to Victoria, but the phone was, there are only two ways that could be. If someone had the phone in their possession OR the phone was in something being transported through that area. If that someone had the phone in their possession, they more than likely know about this baby. If the phone was being transported unknowingly through that area, it could mean it was in the garbage, had been picked up and was on it's way to a landfill. Do we know where the landfills are for the San Antonio area?

Depends what company they are useing, My Husband works for Waste Management, they have a landfill right here in the city, I can ask more tomorrow. Not sure where the city dumps, then you have Tiger, and I think 2 more. He may know where they dump as well.
 
She never said everything, just paid in cash...and you can cash in a month worth of WIC at a time, she could have cashed in a month right before she left. With a cooler, most of it would keep.

here in tn. the wic is like a check it is ran through the cash registor like a check the cashier keeps it. you have to show id, the person name must be on the envelope for the wic

it should not be hard to find out when they were chased in. here it goes trough the health dept

I hope fbi is checking on that
 
I head TPS say that EJ got WIC, so milk should have been covered, but she would have needed ice chest to transport it? cheese and other things are covered too, but not diapers.

Six Flags is near the hotel and park.

Did she leave AZ on the 20th or sooner?

I think the claim is on the 18th
 
here in tn. the wic is like a check it is ran through the cash registor like a check the cashier keeps it. you have to show id, the person name must be on the envelope for the wic

it should not be hard to find out when they were chased in. here it goes trough the health dept

I hope fbi is checking on that

Here is is like a debit card
 
I head TPS say that EJ got WIC, so milk should have been covered, but she would have needed ice chest to transport it? cheese and other things are covered too, but not diapers.

Six Flags is near the hotel and park.

Did she leave AZ on the 20th or sooner?

LE verified she left Tempe on Dec 18. It's not known where she was from that time until LE's verification of her and Gabriel in San Antonio on Dec 22.

We can make a logical and reasonable assumption that she was driving Tempe to San Antonio during that time. We don't know how many hours a day, or where she stopped, e.g., to sleep.
 
Good thinking! I believe you have to sign the WIC coupons and sometimes show ID. The ID thing depends on the store. If the store is used to the coupons there is usually no problem just signing and going straight through.

AND.... I'm thinking that some states now have WIC cards that are very similar to debit cards. They are scanned and the items are deducted... I need to look that one up but I swear I just saw a lady use a WIC debit type card the other day.... Hmmmmmm....

Salem
It's cheaper for most states to put WIC on the EBT card, which is what you get instead of food stamps now. No more paper, no more printing costs. A lot of states have made the switch, I think it might be nationwide soon.
 
She never said everything, just paid in cash...and you can cash in a month worth of WIC at a time, she could have cashed in a month right before she left. With a cooler, most of it would keep.

Thanks for clearing up my error in using the word "everything". There's already so much confusion going on in this case I'm glad you caught me before I added more.
 
LE has been all over the news, repeatedly stating that Logan is Gabriel's legal father and custodian, so that if someone has Gabriel, they will return him to his father, where he belongs.

If LE is wrong about this, please provide a link.

From Mum's earlier post, this is the link:

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...e/index.cfm?event=stateStatutes.processSearch

Click on Texas and Consent for Adoption at the bottom of the page.

It says the opposite of what Mum said......to me anyway.
 
I head TPS say that EJ got WIC, so milk should have been covered, but she would have needed ice chest to transport it? cheese and other things are covered too, but not diapers.

Six Flags is near the hotel and park.

Did she leave AZ on the 20th or sooner?

In regards to WIC, she could not have gotten it here in Texas. We now have a "debit"card. It actually looks just like the foodstamp card, except it has a chip in the front. Our grocery stores will not accept Wic Checks or cards from other states. she would have had to get the formula before she left.

If she had foodstamps, she may have been able to use them at a trucking gas station(forget what they are called) but not for sure.
 
Here is is like a debit card

for wic or food stamps ?

wic is paper check
food stamps is debit card

that is for md and tn
used to be grocery store cashier in Md


they should all check her food stamp card if she gets food stamps ?
 
thank you - it's obvious to me she must have gotten more money somewhere than what we have heard about if she ended up with $500. I still don't know of another source for the stuff the Smith's say she spent money on though, e.g., manicure - was that in court records?

Hard to say though - did gramps give her money? The Smith's? Someone who was involved with a hand off/illegal adoption?

Was she given some money just to get by and promised more later?

I did think the Smith's reaction was weird tonight on Nancy Grace, when Nancy said it appeared she didn't have enough money to claim she sold the child. Was that the point they looked surprised and disappointed with Nancy's response and their faces said "Uh, oh, what's coming next if she doesn't believe that".

And, when one attorney responded when Nancy asked how jurors would see all this, basically, like Elizabeth was out having a good time spending money, the attorney (or attorneys said) thought it would be in Elizabeth's favor because it indicates she left Gabriel with someone who was going to take care of him and she is getting on with her life.

It looks to me like the money works. She had about $1200 starting out. Probably had a bit of household money too. About $800 for expenses leaves about $500.
 
LE has been all over the news, repeatedly stating that Logan is Gabriel's legal father and custodian, so that if someone has Gabriel, they will return him to his father, where he belongs.

If LE is wrong about this, please provide a link.


I haven't said that Logan is not the father. I do not know if he is or not. EJ is the one who has claimed he may not be. That was spoken about on here and on NG that I know of.
I do not know what she may or may not have told an adoption agency ( if that is a correct theory) about who the birthdad is.
The law in TX has a loop hole, as you can see on the links I have posted, in regards to a mom not having to name a father.

Now I know it is hard for some people to believe that moms do go to other states where birthdads rights are almost non existent and tell the agency's or adoption professionals that they either will not name dad, or do not know who dad is. Some agency's love those kind of situations because it is less work for them. It is sick, sad, unethical and wrong as far as the child goes, but it is done consistantly in the US. Adoption is very very unregulated across the board. Just count your lucky stars that you do not have to see the "ugly's" in adoption. Some days I have to step away and regroup because it just becomes to much to for my soul.
 
Makes me wonder what route the bus took and if it went through Victoria? Has anyone answers that with 100% certainty?

Someone called and verified that Tornado doesn't stop in Victoria, but I don't think anyone has called and verified whether or not it goes through Victoria, or near enough to ping a tower there.
 
It looks to me like the money works. She had about $1200 starting out. Probably had a bit of household money too. About $800 for expenses leaves about $500.

I agree with this. The money does work. I DO NOT think she sold this baby. I think when she found out the adoption thing wasn't going to work, she took the high road. Disappeared and hoped the baby's bed and clothing being ripped to shreds would look like she had been attacked and the baby taken. Ditched the car and walked away into her "new life". Question is, where is the baby?
 
Question. Do we know anything at all about Elizabeth's friends? Could she have a friend in San Antonio she's stashed Gabriel with?

She's so angry and violent she might have called in a favor and been intimidating to someone, telling them no matter what, not to say Gabriel is with them. And if they are scared of her, and have some emotional problems, they just could do that.

I sure wouldn't want her at my house smashing out my windows, slashing clothes with a knife, etc. It's very frightening behavior.
 
LE verified she left Tempe on Dec 18. It's not known where she was from that time until LE's verification of her and Gabriel in San Antonio on Dec 22.

We can make a logical and reasonable assumption that she was driving Tempe to San Antonio during that time. We don't know how many hours a day, or where she stopped, e.g., to sleep.

4 days is a long time - San Antonio is about 15 hour drive isn't it?
 
I wish all men would sign a register and name the people that they have been with

my son, I will have no answers for him when he gets older about his father. father was not found


I still think it would not hurt to see where she last used her wic or food stamp card
and check the people involved credit cards debt cards even pre paid cards have names on them (at least my does )
 
Originally Posted by mum
First off I stated that I am not a professional and then I also posted about being "stand corrected".

Google birthdads rights and you will see a ton of cases where birthdads rights do not exist in different states such as TX, Utah etc...


Here is one link to TX statutes.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwi....processSearch

My website www.adoptionscams.net

Lynne Banks

Although we appreciate your help. It is actually against TOS to say that you have a very reliable information, but can't post the source or anything to back it up. Its sorta like "I have a secrect but can't tell you about it!" You may want to stop doing that as it could get you a time out.
__________________
 
BBM
I agree with this. The money does work. I DO NOT think she sold this baby. I think when she found out the adoption thing wasn't going to work, she took the high road. Disappeared and hoped the baby's bed and clothing being ripped to shreds would look like she had been attacked and the baby taken. Ditched the car and walked away into her "new life". Question is, where is the baby?

Baznme - I'm confused. The clothes ripping, etc was in AZ back in Oct. Are you saying that it happened again? That the stuff found in EJ's room in San Antonio was ripped to shreds?

TIA,

Salem
 
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