17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

What Evidence is Required to Raise a Self-Defense Claim in Florida?

The defendant is entitled to a jury instruction on self-defense in Florida when there is any evidence to support the claim. This is a low standard and even a “scintilla” of evidence will be sufficient, even if the self-defense theory is extremely weak or improbable. Self-defense may even be inferred from the State’s evidence without the Defendant or a defense witness ever taking the stand.

Where there is no evidence of self-defense, the jury will not be given a self-defense instruction and the defendant will be limited in closing argument to challenging the State’s evidence and denying that the incident took place (assuming no other defenses were raised). Thus, if a Defendant testifies during trial, and states that he acted out of anger after the alleged victim walked away, he or she would not likely be entitled to a self-defense instruction. Florida courts have also denied self-defense instructions where the claim of self-defense is inconsistent with the defense theory of the case, such as where an alibi defense is raised.

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-law-self-defense-use-of-force.html

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/george-zimmermans-first-appearance/gfdx/#1448758

From GZ's court appearance. Zoom in to about 150. There appears to be a perfect circle on the back of his head that is still rather lumpy.

Okay, here's a detailed discussion of what some of us have been searching for: GZ's burden of proof if he mounts an affirmative defense of justifiable homicide:

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/...burden-of-proof-on-the-issue-of-self-defense/


(Note to mods. This site is owned and operated by the Akron Beacon Journal, so I assume that makes it MSM and okay here.)

The bottom line is that in Florida, an affirmative defense requires only enough proof to create reasonable doubt. The defendant doesn't even have to prove his claims are probable, merely sufficiently possible to create doubt.

jjenny was basically right about this all along. And my home state has sunk even lower than I thought possible.

jjenny said:

I've already posted links.
Here is one with quotes from Richard Hornsby. I really hope he stops by here and explains it once and for all.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_...-case-against-zimmerman-questioned/?tag=stack

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I'm no expert and can't recite Florida law, chapter and verse, but...

There seems to be serious legal issues that arises long BEFORE the gun went off. And it may erode the weight of the moment the gun went off:

-- GZ may be found guilty of creating a hostile/dangerous environment. There are laws against this, particularly when you put a minor (TM) in danger.

-- GZ should have known that "running after" a person while toting a gun could result in someone's death. Don't gun owners have to act specially responsibly? There are questions as to whether it was even legal for GZ to own a gun, given his prior arrest record.

-- SYG doesn't cover chasing a person down. Nor does it excuse the illegal activity of stalking a person. GZ wasn't a LE officer, so he had no authority/protection in acting this way.

-- There's a 911 call as evidence that he'd been "reminded" of a better way of handling his concerns. He didn't listen; he made decisions that in effect created a hostile/dangerous situation. This, coupled with his comments about "*advertiser censored**holes always getting away" could be considered premeditation.

-- GZ's story doesn't add up re: what happened before the gun went off. None of it makes sense...

He says that 6ft TM was "on top of him," hand over mouth, and banging his head. How can you fumble and get a hold of a gun when someone's almost suffocating you, cutting off your wind? The first thing a human needs to keep living is air. Seems that GZ's hands would have to be busy pushing TM's hands/body away first, so he could breathe properly.

GZ said he was screaming for help, but how can you scream when someone is covering your mouth? At best, your screams would be muffled... But those recorded screams are clear as a bell. Audio experts say they aren't even GZ's voice.

Funeral director saw no bruises or scrapes on TM, none of the usual signs of a struggle or fight.

An eye witness saw GZ on top of TM, in control of the situation.

... So, GZ's account of his state-of-mind when the gun went off is totally unreliable.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/newsobserver/obituary.aspx?n=Trayvon-Martin&pid=156897764

Trayvon B. Martin | Visit Guest Book
Trayvon B. Martin
Sanford, FL
Trayvon Benjamin Martin, 17, born on February 5, 1995, was the son of Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. He was visiting with his father and his father's fiancé at her townhome in The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Florida, when, while walking from a convenience store, the unarmed youth was fatally shot and murdered on February 26, 2012. Trayvon, who was apparently doing nothing more menacing the evening of Feb. 26th than walking home from a convenience store, was shot in the chest during an altercation with a neighborhood watch captain who thought the teen in a hoodie looked "suspicious."
Locally, a Memorial Service for Trayvon will be held at 7:00 p.m., on Tuesday, April 10, 2012, at Morning Star Church of Christ, 225 S. Glendale Avenue in Rocky Mount, NC. NAACP President, Rev. Dr. William J. Barber will be the Guest Speaker.
All members of the community, town, city, state, and surrounding states, are invited to attend this Memorial Service. If you, your family, or your heart has been touched by the tragic death of Trayvon Martin, please join us as we move to bring ALL communities together. We have a duty to each other to raise the awareness and focus of such violence and the effect it has on us all. Furthermore, it is our duty to unify and erase the widespread acceptance of crimes as this for all people.
"His name is ringing all over the country, all over the nation, all over the world." Fulton agreed, "It showed us that even President Obama understands we need justice, that he understands our situation." Adds Martin: "The nation is saying... what if, what if this was my child, what would I do?"
Please join us.
Published in The News & Observer on April 9, 2012 Follow this Obituary
Follow on Facebook
Get Email Updates
Share with Others

I hope it is acceptable to post Richard Hornsby's website:

http://www.richardhornsby.com/criminal/defenses/

He says much the same as already posted about the SYG defense and hearing.

Affirmative Defenses

Under certain circumstances, Florida law allows a person to raise an Affirmative Defense, which does not deny that an offense occurred, but that the conduct was legally justified........

When an Affirmative Defense is raised, the defendant must present some evidence to support the defense. If such evidence is presented, the burden shift back to the State to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the defense is not applicable.

BTW, he lists all his case results by the year and I checked out 2011 and
2012, which show a lot of domestic violence and battery cases, many of which he got dismissed, but nothing noted that they were SYG cases/hearings. I didn't find any murders listed for either year so far. Records go back to 2001, if anybody wants to play with statistics....

mommakk51 said:

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/george-zimmermans-first-appearance/gfdx/#1448758

From GZ's court appearance. Zoom in to about 150. There appears to be a perfect circle on the back of his head that is still rather lumpy.

Click to expand...

Hate to tell you this but if you or I were to shave our heads we would have the same "lumpy" appearance. It is actually the natural appearance of a human skull with skin and muscle matter on it. Next time you see a person (OK usually men) that have shaved their heads take a real close look at their skulls.

itsreenw said:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/newsobserver/obituary.aspx?n=Trayvon-Martin&pid=156897764

Trayvon B. Martin | Visit Guest Book
Trayvon B. Martin
Sanford, FL
Trayvon Benjamin Martin, 17, born on February 5, 1995, was the son of Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. He was visiting with his father and his father's fiancé at her townhome in The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Florida, when, while walking from a convenience store, the unarmed youth was fatally shot and murdered on February 26, 2012. Trayvon, who was apparently doing nothing more menacing the evening of Feb. 26th than walking home from a convenience store, was shot in the chest during an altercation with a neighborhood watch captain who thought the teen in a hoodie looked "suspicious."
Locally, a Memorial Service for Trayvon will be held at 7:00 p.m., on Tuesday, April 10, 2012, at Morning Star Church of Christ, 225 S. Glendale Avenue in Rocky Mount, NC. NAACP President, Rev. Dr. William J. Barber will be the Guest Speaker.
All members of the community, town, city, state, and surrounding states, are invited to attend this Memorial Service. If you, your family, or your heart has been touched by the tragic death of Trayvon Martin, please join us as we move to bring ALL communities together. We have a duty to each other to raise the awareness and focus of such violence and the effect it has on us all. Furthermore, it is our duty to unify and erase the widespread acceptance of crimes as this for all people.
"His name is ringing all over the country, all over the nation, all over the world." Fulton agreed, "It showed us that even President Obama understands we need justice, that he understands our situation." Adds Martin: "The nation is saying... what if, what if this was my child, what would I do?"
Please join us.
Published in The News & Observer on April 9, 2012 Follow this Obituary
Follow on Facebook
Get Email Updates
Share with Others

Click to expand...

Sort of an unusual choice of words. Even President Obama?

mercuriod said:

Hate to tell you this but if you or I were to shave our heads we would have the same "lumpy" appearance. It is actually the natural appearance of a human skull with skin and muscle matter on it. Next time you see a person (OK usually men) that have shaved their heads take a real close look at their skulls.

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I do look at their skulls, and they are usually incredibly symetrical and beautiful. I don't see lumps like on the back of GZ's head, on a man who chooses to shave his head.

Some skulls are lumpy, for sure, but those people don't usually choose to shave their heads.

Look around in public, when you see young men with shaved heads, they're almost always beautifully smooth.

JeannaT said:

Sort of an unusual choice of words. Even President Obama?

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I think they were trying to convey that its time for this country to unite and seek justice in incidents of such senseless deaths and even the President has made a public announcement about it. It's not every day that the President of the U.S.A. speaks out like he did this time.

JeannaT said:

I do look at their skulls, and they are usually incredibly symetrical and beautiful. I don't see lumps like on the back of GZ's head, on a man who chooses to shave his head.

Some skulls are lumpy, for sure, but those people don't usually choose to shave their heads.

Look around in public, when you see young men with shaved heads, they're almost always beautifully smooth.

Click to expand...

LOL, nope, here where I live the police and firemen at various times in support of different causes (they wear pink uniforms the entire month of breast cancer awareness month, will not shave the entire month of March, not sure what "awareness" cause that is for) shave their heads, yes every single police officer and every single fire fighter will shave their head for an entire month. My point is oh man you should see some of the lumps, fat deposits, wrinkles these guys have!

mercuriod said:

LOL, nope, here where I live the police and firemen at various times in support of different causes (they wear pink uniforms the entire month of breast cancer awareness month, will not shave the entire month of March, not sure what "awareness" cause that is for) shave their heads, yes every single police officer and every single fire fighter will shave their head for an entire month. My point is oh man you should see some of the lumps, fat deposits, wrinkles these guys have!

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I guess where you live guys have ugly misshapen heads! ;D

Where I live, guys who CHOOSE to shave their heads (I'm not sure about shaving them for a specific very short term charitable cause, which isn't apparently the way GZ lived, he had a shaved head all his life apparently) have pretty heads.

It seems unlikely that GZ would have shaved his head between the times of both mugshots, if he had that ugly lumpy back of his head.

IMHO and all.

JeannaT said:

I do look at their skulls, and they are usually incredibly symetrical and beautiful. I don't see lumps like on the back of GZ's head, on a man who chooses to shave his head.

Some skulls are lumpy, for sure, but those people don't usually choose to shave their heads.

Look around in public, when you see young men with shaved heads, they're almost always beautifully smooth.

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Apparently not always

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/george-zimmermans-first-appearance/gfdx/#1448759

Karmady said:

Perhaps. But speaking only for myself, I wasn't at all concerned about rioting or violence until the family's team and other elements we're not supposed to talk about up here, I think, told me that I DID need to be worried about it by repeatedly calling for non-violence. No need to call for non-violence if none is expected. jmoo

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Point taken, but if the family didn't have a team, this would have swept under the rug so to speak. I think I need to take this downstairs before they lock me out of the door

bessie said:

Apparently not always

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/local/george-zimmermans-first-appearance/gfdx/#1448759

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He's got the crazy eyes, IMO.

*checks map*

*runs over to confer with other mods, pops head outside door to make sure which thread we're in*

OK. We have a separate thread for discussions of politics, racism, and general venting in this case, and THIS IS NOT IT.

The Sound Off thread is here.

Please stick to the facts of the case in this thread.

Where this post lands is random.

ynotdivein said:

*checks map*

*runs over to confer with other mods, pops head outside door to make sure which thread we're in*

OK. We have a separate thread for discussions of politics, racism, and general venting in this case, and THIS IS NOT IT.

The Sound Off thread is here.

Please stick to the facts of the case in this thread.

Where this post lands is random.

Click to expand...

Sheepishly raises hand and says sorry, I got caught up in emotion running back and forth from the severe weather thread. Will be good from now on, but ask for prayers for those in the path of these awful storms.

ynotdivein said:

*checks map*

*runs over to confer with other mods, pops head outside door to make sure which thread we're in*

OK. We have a separate thread for discussions of politics, racism, and general venting in this case, and THIS IS NOT IT.

The Sound Off thread is here.

Please stick to the facts of the case in this thread.

Where this post lands is random.

Click to expand...

And bumpy, bald heads downstairs too?

mercuriod said:

Hate to tell you this but if you or I were to shave our heads we would have the same "lumpy" appearance. It is actually the natural appearance of a human skull with skin and muscle matter on it. Next time you see a person (OK usually men) that have shaved their heads take a real close look at their skulls.

Click to expand...

I hit my head 7 weeks ago. It bleed like crazy. I didn't go to the ER. I still have a red line/lump/bump where I should have received stitches. It is very, very obviously. At least, I have hair to cover my lump. GZ's lump is not from an open wound. JMO

Yoda said:

And bumpy, bald heads downstairs too?

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:what: Mods not my fault, Yoda made me :what::what::what: