The case for murder

greenpalm said:

I'll tell you what else, although Valhall interprets that narrow side space as being fairly secluded…it's anything but. You can clearly see from the Google Street view that she would have been visible from the street:

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The deck has three sides. Maybe Valhall was talking about the back side of the deck being secluded (i.e., the side that cannot be seen in this photo).

KarenM said:

The deck has three sides. Maybe Valhall was talking about the back side of the deck being secluded (i.e., the side that cannot be seen in this photo).

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The back side of that deck overlooks the courtyard, and has a lanai below it that is covered by a slanted roof, so it wouldn't be possible to hang from that side.

Here is a pic of the lanai:



http://www.luxist.com/2006/02/17/the-speckels-mansion-estate-of-the-day/

That's beautiful and certainly would prevent a hanging!!

SunnieRN said:

Thank you Sorrell, and thank you Greenpalm for the picture. I was thinking of the other side of that balcony. Where it would have been in the back yard? I don't know what is there, but certainly there could not have been a naked suicide attempted there!!!!!

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Sure, the backyard side of the bedroom deck would be appealing, except, If you go back, and look at the floor plan, you will see that the drop from that side would land you on a roof halfway down. Crunch!

ETA: looks like Sorrell Skye beat me to the crunch on this one,

That balcony is also in full view of the windows of the guest house...odd that she would choose that particular place if she did not want to be stopped. But if the person(s) in the guesthouse were not IN the guesthouse at the time of her death, then that would not be a factor to consider for hanging her there...would it?

Does anyone know if the guest house is accessible from the street or does a person have to go into and through the main house in order to get into the guest house. . . .

I'm assuming that in either location, a guest would have to have a key to enter this guest house. MOO.

Thanks.

No, actually I was talking about the side of the master bedroom deck. Not toward the back where a roof would be in the way.

If you look at this picture...

http://celebritydaily.net/wp/wp-con...les-Mansion-jonah-shacknais-house-picture.jpg

you see that where she was hanging was not only very close to where AS was spending the night, but also in full view of the next door neighbor.

Now, to the statements made about the view from the street. I don't agree. Her body would have been less visible hanging from the side of the master bedroom down into the narrow space between the house and the privacy fence, than it would have been where it was. These two pictures are the best I can get to show that the actual area at the end of the house (master bedroom) is fairly secluded

http://celebritydaily.net/wp/wp-con...reckles-Mansion-jonah-shacknais-house-pic.jpg

watch this video on this one...

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpps/new...h-cord-in-shacknais-mansion-07142011_14123169

especially at 1:21 in. You see that from street level that the palms, the privacy hedge and the privacy wall would make it a lot more difficult to discover Rebecca's body than where she was hanged.

Then we have the issue that if a woman would strip totally naked and fling herself off a balcony...I'm not sure she gives a care how public the location is. It's troublesome to me that she would go all the way to the opposite end of the house to fling herself off right next to where her BF's brother was sleeping. I mean right next.

Pacific2011 said:

Does anyone know if the guest house is accessible from the street or does a person have to go into and through the main house in order to get into the guest house. . . .

I'm assuming that in either location, a guest would have to have a key to enter this guest house. MOO.

Thanks.

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The guest house is accessible without entering the mainhouse. In more than one way. From the front street you would walk toward the garage doors and then slightly to the right to enter the man-door at the side (toward the courtyard) of the garage.

Welcome, Valhall! Thank you so much for your work on this case!

Valhall, thank you for answering our questions! It is much appreciated!! I constantly need a guidebook to understand things in this case and you have helped more than I can say!! Thanks you!

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/zahau-family-presses-for-new-probe-death-suicide-hanging-shacknai-mansion

New interview with rz sister.

Brit said:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/zahau-family-presses-for-new-probe-death-suicide-hanging-shacknai-mansion

New interview with rz sister.

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Good article. Also, be sure to read the comments

I wanted to also comment about the windows below. See there are so many physical issues that bother me about this whole alleged suicide. But first about the concept of swinging into and breaking the windows below.

A "suicide leap" from the master bedroom desk would have been a totally different physical dynamic. The balistrade on that deck is extremely low. You could actually hop over it (maybe even with your ankles bound!). So in the case of the side deck she would have had a near straight vertical fall, most likely feet first. There would have been very little swinging involved.

Compared to....how we are being asked to believe she chose to do it. In a far more complicated, difficult (I believe the physics show near impossible) manner of rotating her body over a 38" high balcony rail. In the case of the guest bedroom balcony, her body MOST DEFINITELY swung once it hit the end of the rope and I would be surprised if her feet did not strike the side of the house.

What nobody has been able to give me is a logical explanation for why, if you have chosen to perform the difficult task of propelling yourself over a 38" rail, when you're only 5' 3-1/2" tall, you would decide to bind your ankles and make it more difficult. And "symbolic" don't work for me as an excuse.

People keep coming up with the phrase "you never can tell how a suicidal person might think" to cover every single thing that is bizarre AND would require this woman to consider a myriad of factors. Problem is, if you apply that reasoning to every issue discussed (like - omg, I might break the windows!) you end up turning Rebecca into a MacGyver...a friggin genius whose mind ran through a matrix of parameters prior to her finalizing her own ending.

I can see binding your ankles if you are looking at what is the more "typical" (I guess that's the right word to use) indoor hanging suicide where you basically tie yourself off to a closet rod or something and then step or hop off a chair or table. In that case, like the bound wrists, you COULD try to save yourself if your feet are free.

You can't do squat with your feet once you've dropped 12 foot from a 2 story balcony. I'm sorry, but the binding of the ankles is virtually impossible to explain in a suicide conclusion.

Thank you for commenting on this Val. I've been saying from the beginning that that deck off the master bedroom was the most logical place for this, if she truly was suicidal and bent upon humiliating herself for Max's fall. What woman would want their to-be brother-in-law to find them nude and hanging? People want their memory preserved after death. That is the whole point of funerals, burials and memorials. If giving her life for Max's was the point, why do it where only Adam would see it?

And as far as worrying that she would be seen there? I completely agree with Val that the passageway between the house and the privacy hedge was far more secluded that the courtyard.....but that negates the whole point of doing it in the courtyard rather than inside the home! A person passing the house would have to look specifically into that passageway to see her hanging there. Most people are going to be looking at the facade of the house, at the ocean, the cars passing on the street.....whatever. Not at the side entrance. In the dark. And if the suicide scenario is true, she could have bound herself in her bedroom, walked out the door, across the deck and over the side in a matter of seconds.

If I were Rebecca I would rather the neighbor or some anonymous stranger found me than my family member or the renters who know me.......

Valhall said:

I wanted to also comment about the windows below. See there are so many physical issues that bother me about this whole alleged suicide. But first about the concept of swinging into and breaking the windows below.

A "suicide leap" from the master bedroom desk would have been a totally different physical dynamic. The balistrade on that deck is extremely low. You could actually hop over it (maybe even with your ankles bound!). So in the case of the side deck she would have had a near straight vertical fall, most likely feet first. There would have been very little swinging involved.

Compared to....how we are being asked to believe she chose to do it. In a far more complicated, difficult (I believe the physics show near impossible) manner of rotating her body over a 38" high balcony rail. In the case of the guest bedroom balcony, her body MOST DEFINITELY swung once it hit the end of the rope and I would be surprised if her feet did not strike the side of the house.

What nobody has been able to give me is a logical explanation for why, if you have chosen to perform the difficult task of propelling yourself over a 38" rail, when you're only 5' 3-1/2" tall, you would decide to bind your ankles and make it more difficult. And "symbolic" don't work for me as an excuse.

People keep coming up with the phrase "you never can tell how a suicidal person might think" to cover every single thing that is bizarre AND would require this woman to consider a myriad of factors. Problem is, if you apply that reasoning to every issue discussed (like - omg, I might break the windows!) you end up turning Rebecca into a MacGyver...a friggin genius whose mind ran through a matrix of parameters prior to her finalizing her own ending.

I can see binding your ankles if you are looking at what is the more "typical" (I guess that's the right word to use) indoor hanging suicide where you basically tie yourself off to a closet rod or something and then step or hop off a chair or table. In that case, like the bound wrists, you COULD try to save yourself if your feet are free.

You can't do squat with your feet once you've dropped 12 foot from a 2 story balcony. I'm sorry, but the binding of the ankles is virtually impossible to explain in a suicide conclusion.

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That made me laugh because, I agree or Rebecca was some superheroine!

Logical improbability is screaming in my head and it is deafening.

Valhall said:

The guest house is accessible without entering the mainhouse. In more than one way. From the front street you would walk toward the garage doors and then slightly to the right to enter the man-door at the side (toward the courtyard) of the garage.

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So, is it possible that a woman seen in front of the mansion around 10 p.m. was on her way to the guest house. . . .perhaps waiting for access, which could be sent remotely from someone in the guest house who was expecting her arrival?


MOO.

Pacific2011 said:

So, is it possible that a woman seen in front of the mansion around 10 p.m. was on her way to the guest house. . . .perhaps waiting for access, which could be sent remotely from someone in the guest house who was expecting her arrival?


MOO.

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Yeah, of course it's possible. Has there been any further info from LE on this report?

Pacific2011 said:

So, is it possible that a woman seen in front of the mansion around 10 p.m. was on her way to the guest house. . . .perhaps waiting for access, which could be sent remotely from someone in the guest house who was expecting her arrival?


MOO.

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I think someone mentioned earlier that maybe the 10:41 text was made to locate Rebecca or Rebecca's cell phone. Given someone could have arrived on the scene around 10, this could make sense. Goes right in line with screams around 11:30. I think she was dead shortly after, shortly being within an hour or two. Not sure about this one, but perhaps the 12:30 call was alibi and/or to set up the motive for suicide. I know this involves collusion, but I find that as probable as not.

I wish we had an idea of if and when DS & JS were made aware of Dr. Peterson's ultimately erroneous suspicions. I'm wondering how long either or both of them would have had to plan a crime. I'm actually frighteningly able to imagine my
unmitigated rage if I thought my ex husband's girlfriend was directly responsible for a (possibly deliberate) fatal injury to my child. I might very well entertain homicidal thoughts, but: whoa. How carefully I'd want to plan such a venture.

If I seriously meant to go through with it, I sure would want some time to think about how to reduce, or eliminate my risk of getting caught. I'd be pretty stinking reluctant to mention it to someone else or solicit their help. The trust would have to be profound. I'm imagining twins might have that kind of trust, but, it's just a thought. Also, getting this trusted accomplice to cover for you is one thing, or even send a text, but… how far could I ask this trusted person to go for me? Yikes! (these same thoughts come up for me with Terri M Horman & Dede Spicher in the Kyron Horman case, FWIW). It's easier for me personally to imagine this as a one person job, than to see it as a conspiracy. I don't think I trust anyone enough to ask them to be an accomplice to murder. What if you ask and they say no? You've blown your chance then. If the victim you suggested winds up dead you'll have tipped your hand.

Other than those who might seek revenge for Maxie's death, who stood to gain from R's death? Did she have any life insurance? (suicide can often void that anyway)

I mentioned in another thread that Coronado is extremely close to the Mexican border, could this be the work of a hired hit man? How hard would it be to find such a person all on the QT? Every way I think to get information ends up being traceable.

But to go back to my original ponderings, if we assume that Rebecca's death was a revenge killing for Maxie, that gives us a pretty narrow suspect list, so, the next question is, how long did this alleged murderer have to plan? They had between Dr. Peterson sharing his suspicions, and Rebeccca's death. How long was that? Do we know, can we know?

One thing I think adds to a theory of murder (although I agree with you about planning and I originally thought this was a 'hit') is that it appears time was given for everyone to come in and out and say goodbye to Max that was going to do that at the hospital (except Rebecca, but including the Friend Dr. Luber, Dina's sister, Jonah's brother and anyone unknown to us). Soon after everyone had this chance.... guess what.

I still don't think Rebecca knew or was fully aware of the 'suffocation' thing or it's implications, but that would have happened probably sooner rather than later - didn't they say this was going to be file on Wed or some key event with that was about to happen. Guessing, Rebecca may not have taken this so well and, at that point, I wonder if Jonah would have had to fess up and tell her he wasn't going to support her through this (I mean in any way).

It was also said that Dr. Peterson continued to believe it was suffocation for 4 days?