Possibly related cases (GB4, Manorville, Bittrolff victims, & others)

Bam! Found it:

Old 04-09-2011, 09:57 AM
fashionella fashionella is offline
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 72
I think the dr. is a red herring
I think the dr. aspect is a classic frame up. It doesn't add up, I think it's more cat and mouse by JB. He knows who lives in the area. We know the killer has contacted other victims' family members. It will all fit together in the end. The only thing that isn't fitting in reports is the fact that one of the dead AC girls is reported to have spent 5 weeks in a Jericho hotel on LI in the summer before she disappeared, WELL, according to her FB page her husband HA comments on a photo of her "in the house in the Pines "(fire island, very close to gilgo)and goes on about how happy she was when he redid that kitchen, etc. HA seems like a good person who tried to save her, (Raffo) and had kids with her, long relationship etc...Might just be bad reporting. The FB post puts her VERY close to the LI victims regardless. I think, JB had a ring--a network of Johns and girls and a drug business, I think they are into VERY gross snuff-type stuff. No clothes? Maybe he likes to videotape or stream and doesn't want their clothes ID'd. The Perp is smart, and sick and evil--that much I know.

SherlockHomes said:

Bam! Found it:

Old 04-09-2011, 09:57 AM
fashionella fashionella is offline
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 72
I think the dr. is a red herring
I think the dr. aspect is a classic frame up. It doesn't add up, I think it's more cat and mouse by JB. He knows who lives in the area. We know the killer has contacted other victims' family members. It will all fit together in the end. The only thing that isn't fitting in reports is the fact that one of the dead AC girls is reported to have spent 5 weeks in a Jericho hotel on LI in the summer before she disappeared, WELL, according to her FB page her husband HA comments on a photo of her "in the house in the Pines "(fire island, very close to gilgo)and goes on about how happy she was when he redid that kitchen, etc. HA seems like a good person who tried to save her, (Raffo) and had kids with her, long relationship etc...Might just be bad reporting. The FB post puts her VERY close to the LI victims regardless. I think, JB had a ring--a network of Johns and girls and a drug business, I think they are into VERY gross snuff-type stuff. No clothes? Maybe he likes to videotape or stream and doesn't want their clothes ID'd. The Perp is smart, and sick and evil--that much I know.

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That is NOT on Long island/NY , that refere to HA and Kim Raffo's house/home in Pembroke Pines, FL. They bought the house in 1996 and sold it Oct 2002.

My bad! thank you for clearing that up for me! Although since it is somewhat of a technical error and the original post was rather misleading i don't necessarily feel that my resignation is required

SherlockHomes said:

My bad! thank you for clearing that up for me! Although since it is somewhat of a technical error and the original post was rather misleading i don't necessarily feel that my resignation is required

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Your welcome SH and good decision to stay on the case

BKS said:

I saw picture of her of when she was at her cousins house in Westhampton She was 11 or 12 Also a few phots fron nj in 2002 and 2005 on her FB page

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Thanks you very much for that info BKS, I hadn't seen that info before.

BKS said:

4 women

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Nice, I guess, that gets the similarity machine going?

Peter

Just K said:

Right after the GB4 were ID'd, weren't fake FB pages added on each of the GB4 and then they "Friended" or were friended by the dead AC women's fake Facebook pages, as well?

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Yep, some thought, a certain poster of the now defunct LISK forum had his hands in it, but it could never be proven. The guy had a lot of names back then and there.

Peter

Theforeigner said:

Details on the Florida Suitcase Murders:

Post #119 and #120 in this thread page 5, here is a link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159998&page=5

Not that I belive it has to mean anything but; Kim Raffo's father had a luggage bizz and Kim worked there with him since she was 12 years old.
HA and Kim became a cupple when Kim was 14, and HA was 21 years old.

Here is a quote about the luggage bizz:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/nyregion/23victim.html
"Kim Raffo and her younger sister grew up in the Canarsie area of Brooklyn, helping her father sell luggage out of a small shop in the financial district. By the time she was 12, Kim could run the store herself while her father, Robert, checked the inventory"

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Thanks for the info. HA has been cleared, I assume?

Peter

I was in AC last night to check out the new casino, The Revel. Awesome place, very different from the other casinos (the only thing similar was that it took my money lol). I was going to go checkout the hotel where the AC victims were found, but it was pouring rain and cold. Plus, I dont think my girlfriend would have been to keen on the idea of going to check out the secluded crime scene of a possible serial killer at 2am lol. Everytime I go to AC I am amazed at how run-down it is. 3 blocks in from the beach the city turns into a slum. Its such a great hunting area for these psychos. Im surprised we havent seen more of this type of crime.

Also, noone has answered my question about the latest bodies found in LI last month. Are they believed to be connected to the other killings? Anyone know their victimology? Also, in the event he is a sadist, I seem to remember that the data collected for the Crime Classification Manual showed statistics that 49% of sadists had partners? (I believe that stat is right, ill double check tomorrow. I have a copy at work). Usually one dominant, and one submissive partner. That could account for the different in methodology in the killings? Also, the dismemberment of victims tends to stop. Its messy as hell, and you need a lot of time alone to do so. I have a feeling that it becomes a hot and cold phase for the killer, especially if he gets married or something. He may experiment for awhile, but he may realize that gamble in doing so.

tmacirish1 said:

I was in AC last night to check out the new casino, The Revel. Awesome place, very different from the other casinos (the only thing similar was that it took my money lol). I was going to go checkout the hotel where the AC victims were found, but it was pouring rain and cold. Plus, I dont think my girlfriend would have been to keen on the idea of going to check out the secluded crime scene of a possible serial killer at 2am lol. Everytime I go to AC I am amazed at how run-down it is. 3 blocks in from the beach the city turns into a slum. Its such a great hunting area for these psychos. Im surprised we havent seen more of this type of crime.

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Wasn't there an article, the place had been refurbished in 2006. During the murder, there were construction workers around the place. So it can't be that run-down, it's just 5 1/2 years ... or well, it's 5 1/2 years, that's enough time for some people to run down a place?

Peter

tmacirish1 said:

Also, noone has answered my question about the latest bodies found in LI last month. Are they believed to be connected to the other killings? Anyone know their victimology? Also, in the event he is a sadist, I seem to remember that the data collected for the Crime Classification Manual showed statistics that 49% of sadists had partners? (I believe that stat is right, ill double check tomorrow. I have a copy at work). Usually one dominant, and one submissive partner. That could account for the different in methodology in the killings? Also, the dismemberment of victims tends to stop. Its messy as hell, and you need a lot of time alone to do so. I have a feeling that it becomes a hot and cold phase for the killer, especially if he gets married or something. He may experiment for awhile, but he may realize that gamble in doing so.

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That's, what the handbook for SKs version 101 says ... however, I have yet to see a team where this model really hits. In packs, it's a different story (compare for example Bonin & Co), but teams?
The allegedly submissive partner was the one who went for more murders when the Hillside Stranglers broke up. Before, the allegedly dominant partner had to bow to the allegedly subdominant (not necessarily submissive) partner and had to go hunting even while he wanted to lay low ...
Ng anf Lake, another somewhat famous team? Handbook 101 assumes Ng was the dominant one ... but Lake selected the victims. Yeah, so far about that model.

And 49% of psychopathic sadists have partners? May you can me the title of that book? Most of them have a real narcissistic streak as well and that doesn't make them sharing or friendly to another partner. The only types, I know who go regularly for partners is the completion team (when two of them meet and complete each other, thus the meeting has a trigger function as well) and the dominant attention hog types, who want more or less an audience (which seems surprisingly often the case in homicidal couples like e.g. the Birnies).

So maybe, we should rethink this classic "common" knowledge thing once more?

Peter

Peter Brendt said:

Thanks for the info. HA has been cleared, I assume?

Peter

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You mean in the Suitcase Murder case?
No, he has not been cleared that I know of, but he has not been officially named a suspect either.
But he has been cleared in the Daytona serial killer case by DNA.

Theforeigner said:

You mean in the Suitcase Murder case?
No, he has not been cleared that I know of, but he has not been officially named a suspect either.
But he has been cleared in the Daytona serial killer case by DNA.

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I thought, he has been cleared from the AC case by DNA. Wasn't he one of the 16 tested? However, since some of our more obsessive co-members had the attitude to mention names here in the past in connection with all thinkable and unthinkable crimes, there was some trouble about this person in the past and I remember something, we are not supposed to mention him by names or initials on the punishment of being banned. Thus, I bow out of that part of the story.

Peter

Has his status changed? I also thought as a family member of one of the victims he and the rest of her family were not to be sleuthed.

Redbird said:

Has his status changed? I also thought as a family member of one of the victims he and the rest of her family were not to be sleuthed.

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Except that there is in the meantime an additional prove by DNA that he is not the killer, no status change. But Sherlock threw him, probably not knowing about past trouble, back in the ring - several times. So I repeated, that we are NOT supposed to sleuth him. That's all.

Peter

Peter Brendt said:

I thought, he has been cleared from the AC case by DNA. Wasn't he one of the 16 tested? However, since some of our more obsessive co-members had the attitude to mention names here in the past in connection with all thinkable and unthinkable crimes, there was some trouble about this person in the past and I remember something, we are not supposed to mention him by names or initials on the punishment of being banned. Thus, I bow out of that part of the story.

Peter

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Do you have a link to that "16 tested" in the AC4 case? I never read anything like that.
The only person I have read was tested by DNA in the AC4 case, was Terry Oleson. He was never charged but have never been offecially cleared either.

Concerning you wrote; "we are not supposed to mention him by names or initials"
Well, you yourself mentioned him by initials and asked me a question about him.

Peter Brendt said:

Except that there is in the meantime an additional prove by DNA that he is not the killer, no status change. But Sherlock threw him, probably not knowing about past trouble, back in the ring - several times. So I repeated, that we are NOT supposed to sleuth him. That's all.

Peter

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The only case he, to my knowledge, has been cleard of, is the Florida Daytona serial killer case.
There is, so far, no official reports that he has been, either a suspect OR been cleard in the AC4 and/or the GB4 cases.

Theforeigner said:

Do you have a link to that "16 tested" in the AC4 case? I never read anything like that.
The only person I have read was tested by DNA in the AC4 case, was Terry Oleson. He was never charged but have never been offecially cleared either.

Concerning you wrote; "we are not supposed to mention him by names or initials"
Well, you yourself mentioned him by initials and asked me a question about him.

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The 16 tested were mentioned in this thread somewhere. So I trusted WS in this case. I know, Oleson was tested. And nope, I quoted only Sherlock, so don't try to blame me for his sudden appearance in this thread. However, since you didn't do it with the intention of slander, all is good, I assume.

Peter

Peter Brendt said:

That's, what the handbook for SKs version 101 says ... however, I have yet to see a team where this model really hits. In packs, it's a different story (compare for example Bonin & Co), but teams?
The allegedly submissive partner was the one who went for more murders when the Hillside Stranglers broke up. Before, the allegedly dominant partner had to bow to the allegedly subdominant (not necessarily submissive) partner and had to go hunting even while he wanted to lay low ...
Ng anf Lake, another somewhat famous team? Handbook 101 assumes Ng was the dominant one ... but Lake selected the victims. Yeah, so far about that model.

And 49% of psychopathic sadists have partners? May you can me the title of that book? Most of them have a real narcissistic streak as well and that doesn't make them sharing or friendly to another partner. The only types, I know who go regularly for partners is the completion team (when two of them meet and complete each other, thus the meeting has a trigger function as well) and the dominant attention hog types, who want more or less an audience (which seems surprisingly often the case in homicidal couples like e.g. the Birnies).

So maybe, we should rethink this classic "common" knowledge thing once more?

Peter

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Yeah, I was just throwing that out there. The book was written in the early 90s from data college throughout the 70s and 80s (republished in 2006), and it only consists of the sample sizes used for its study. The book boldly and clearly states that the subject matter in this area is fluid. It changes all the time. These people aren't computers hardwired to run a certain way, the human mind's abilities are amazing and different from individual to individual.

Again, I was not stating that this is the case with whats going on in LI, just thought it would be something to mention as had happend historically. And a case for that actually happening? Relatively recent actually, and one of the most sick and terrifying accounts Ive read---Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka--read about those two sweethearts. They went a little past "sharing". Karla fed that monster her sister along with many other women.

Narcicissim is what is seen on the surface of these people. There is a tangled web of raw hatred and inner rage at society that filters into their sexuality. They are the perfect storm of dysfunction, and evolve into "evil".

You're right. This is not math. Nothing fits perfectly, and never will because no 1 killer is the same. I am not using "textbook sk 101" I am taking what I know about this (which is minimal) and sharing my ideas, as you are.

As I wrote when I typed the 49% statistic, it may be off as I am going from memory, and I will double check tomorrow.

Btw--the book is called "Crime Classification Manual: A Standard System for Investigating and Classifying Violent Crimes" Written by Robert Ressler, John Douglas, Ann and Alan Burgess. Robert and John built the FBI's BSU. You should read it if you have not yet done so.