Trial Thread 10 May 2012 - Judge's Instructions and maybe deliberations!

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RaffertyLFP: On Wednesday Heeney warned them to "pack a toothbrush" Saw two women entering courthouse with suitcases - assume they were jurors [via Twitter]
 
Jurors in the courtroom.

Heeney corrects Gowdey's closing, he said Tori's blood was on the gym bag. That's possible, but not determined, he adds

RaffertyLFP: Jury in Heeney clarifies Crown's final argument, Gowdey said DNA on gym bag was Tori's blood, Heeney says that DNA not confirmed as blood
 
Points out on photo of crime scene, yellow circle marks where McClintic stood during assault. That is slightly different from her testimony.

Charge begins. Heeney says law requires instructions are precise.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said his charge is written and may be more "tedious" than off the cuff Required because case is complex and charge has been printed
 
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge begins with some clarifications from Crown's closing yesterday. Charge now set to begin
 
Sailor Bug said:
Jurors in the courtroom.

Heeney corrects Gowdey's closing, he said Tori's blood was on the gym bag. That's possible, but not determined, he adds

RaffertyLFP: Jury in Heeney clarifies Crown's final argument, Gowdey said DNA on gym bag was Tori's blood, Heeney says that DNA not confirmed as blood
Click to expand...

??????
 
WTF?


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Jury back. Justice Heeney clarifies that there were three DNA profiles on #Rafferty's gym bag. One could have been Tori, may not be blood.
 
RaffertyLFP: Heeney summarizes what he will say starting with the general role of jurors

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said the jurors should rely on their memories of the evidence not what he or the lawyers say

Heeney will only review "some of the evidence". He says it is for the jury to decide if evidence is important.
 
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge says instructions are complex and written down so they are precise and copies will be given to each juror
 
Wasn't there testimony that it was Tori's blood.....1 in a gazillion or something like that? WTF is the Judge saying? UGH!
 
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge says he'll summarize evidence, as well as both Crown and Defence's closing arguments. Going over duties of Judge and jury now


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge tells jury: You rely on how you remember the evidence now what council or the judge says it was
 
Heeney is "helping you make a decision, not telling you what decision to make".

RaffertyLFP: Heeney tells jury that that they are judges in the trial just like him He conducts the trial - they are the judges of fact

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said the jury must follow all the legal rules that apply to their process even if they disagree
 
~n/t~ said:
WTF?


Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Jury back. Justice Heeney clarifies that there were three DNA profiles on #Rafferty's gym bag. One could have been Tori, may not be blood.
Click to expand...

3 dna profiles
may not be blood


then what?
 
Don't worry people: There was DNA on the bag, may not be Tori's blood but is consistent with Tori. JMO
 
matou said:
Don't worry people: There was DNA on the bag, may not be Tori's blood but is consistent with Tori. JMO
Click to expand...

That's what I thought so what the hell is he saying to this jury? I'd like to see his exact quote when it is available.

I don't like this Judge......I think I stated that over and over throughout this trial.
 
Heeney says if jurors disagree with or don't understanding reasonings for rules of law, they must follow them.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney said all jury deliberations are secret and will always be secret, He tells them to ignore all media reports

Radio, Internet, newspaper or TV reports can not sway jurors decisions.

RaffertyLFP: Heeney tells the jury should not make their judgement on sympathy or emotion but base their decision on evidence and the law
 
Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
J. Heeney starts his charge by saying, "Now it's time for me to tell you about the law you must follow in making this decision."
 
Flossie JMO said:
Good morning.

I'm so very sorry for your loss sillybilly. I can't even imagine.

I'm very interested to hear the instructions.

I was reading posts from earlier today and wanted to post regarding the discussion on the speculation about a drug debt. It would be very rare for sure, and in two other cases with the kidnapping of a child, one I think was described as being related to a drug debt, the other it was speculated about but the motive has not been revealed by LE imo. Both cases though the children were able to return home safely thank God.

TM testified to JG having ripped drugs off of someone.

TLM testified that TM and JG didn't owe her money, but they may owe money to others.

TLM and TM did not testify that the debt was not owed to TLM's mother.

I believe it was never stated in court who the money was owed to.

JMO I think who the money was owed to might possibly be revealed to the public during deliberations.

My heart goes out to Tori's family, such a brutal horrific crime, and the loss of a beautiful innocent child.
Click to expand...

For me I believe that the crown should have addressed the drug debt / gang issue head on. Having JG and the druggies TLM and MR were in connect with that day to testify that there was no animosity. That would have been evidence the jury could take into deliberation. MY believe is that by glossing over the drug debt theory and the gang connection leaves the door open to the possibility.

And for those that don't believe that TLM being a gang member is a viable theory have to understand that it isn't it goes directly to frame of mind rather then the actually intent. Being slighted even in the smallest way is considered the ultimate disrespect, retaliation is often violent and not thought out. Just because pedophile rape is easier to accept, for it was what was expected ... does not mean vidictiness is not a possibility.

Just my 2 cents.
 
~n/t~ said:
Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge says he'll summarize evidence, as well as both Crown and Defence's closing arguments. Going over duties of Judge and jury now


Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Judge tells jury: You rely on how you remember the evidence now what council or the judge says it was
Click to expand...

Quoting myself. Why does he have to summarize evidence as well as both the Crown and Defence's closing? What a waste of time! Is that how it's usually done?
 
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