Are the Ramseys involved or not?

Sophie said:

In terms of individual bits of vocabulary, I am not sure that they prove that much other than this cultural literacy: read a Western Cold War novel and you'll see the word 'countermeasures,' watch the news and someone will mention 'factions' etc.

Click to expand...

Or watch a James Bond movie. Which we know the Rs were at least passingly familiar with, because JR mentioned them.

rn, vocab with French roots:

1. "Mr. Ramsey.
2. Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent
3. a small foreign faction. We xx respect your bussiness
4. but not the country that it serves. At this time we have
5. your daughter in our posession. She is safe and unharmed and
6. if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to
7. the letter.
8. You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be
9. in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure
10. that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get
11. home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you
12. between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The
13. delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to
15. arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier
16. delivery pickup of your daughter.
17. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate
18. execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains
19. for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter
20. do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
21. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I.,
22. etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you
23. talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she
24. dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
25. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she
26. dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar
27. with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99%
28. chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow
29. our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back.
30. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the
31. authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only
32. fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't
33. underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours.
34. It is up to you now John!
35. Victory! 36. S.B.T.C."

rn vocab, French roots:
2. goup of individuals: (eng. medical term)
[ame="http://www.google.ca/search?hl=fr&q=group+of+individuals+&btnG=Rechercher&meta=lr%3Dlang_fr"]group of individuals - Recherche Google[/ame]
[un groupe d'individus]


2. represent:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/représenter
représenter

3. faction:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/faction
faction

3. respect:
[ame]http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect[/ame]
Respect

5. posession:
[ame]http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession[/ame]
Possession

6. instructions:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/instruction
instruction

9. sure:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/sûre
sûre

10. adequate
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/adéquate
adéquate

Forme d’adjectif
adéquate /a.de.kwat/ </wiki/Annexerononciation>
Féminin singulier d&#8217;éadquat </wiki/ad%C3%A9quat>

10. attache:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/attache
attache


10. bank:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/banque
banque

12. instruct:
instruction

13. rested:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/rester
rester

15. arrange:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/arranger
arranger

17.deviation:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/déviation
déviation

17.instructions:
instruction

17. result:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/résulter
résulter

17. immediate:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/immédiat
immédiat

18. execution:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/exécution#Fran.C3.A7ais
exécution
19. proper:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/propre
propre

20. provoke:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/provoquer
provoquer

21. situation:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/situation
situation

22. result:
résulter

23. alert:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/alerte
alerte

23. bank:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/banque
banque

24. marked:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/marque
marque

26. familiar:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/familiare
familiare

27. tactics:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/tactique
tactique

28. chance:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/chance
chance

29. instructions:
instruction

29. chance:
chance
30. family:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/famille
famille

30. constant:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/constante
constante

30. scrunity:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/scrutine
scrutine

Seems to me, with respect to rn vocab,
there is an disproportionate, unusual? distribution of english words which are mirrored by their twins in the French language.
These word have 'similar' ennuciation.

Tadpole12 said:

Seems to me, with respect to rn vocab,
there is an disproportionate, unusual? distribution of english words which are mirrored by their twins in the French language.
These word have 'similar' ennuciation.

Click to expand...

Ty, Tad. You present a very convincing case.

I'm going to stick my 2 cents worth in here. If some foreign faction had written the ransom note, they wouldn't have left the body in the house.

I don't think Burke did this either. I think PR helped cover up the accidental death. Someone much earlier on this thread said no woman would protect a spouse who molested & killed their child. I disagree. It happens all the time. Some women will choose to protect their lifestyle instead of their child because if they were out on their own, their standard of living would plummet.

justthinkin said:

I'm going to stick my 2 cents worth in here. If some foreign faction had written the ransom note, they wouldn't have left the body in the house.

I don't think Burke did this either. I think PR helped cover up the accidental death. Someone much earlier on this thread said no woman would protect a spouse who molested & killed their child. I disagree. It happens all the time. Some women will choose to protect their lifestyle instead of their child because if they were out on their own, their standard of living would plummet.

Click to expand...

And PR's standard of living was very important to her. More important than her children? No, I don't believe so.
BUT once the fatal head bash happened, nothing could reverse that. The horrific reality of what had happened to their daughter notwithstanding, the next step was damage control. Keep the parents out of jail, protect the remaining child from either blame or suffering the double trauma of a murdered little sister and parents arrested for the murder.
And I think that is exactly what happened.
It became like a runaway train. It was a way out. And they just jumped on, aided by their friends and lawyers.

I don't believe the Ramsey's are involved,but rather, someone who
knew the Ramsey's well.
I've slided along both sides of the fence(IDI/RDI), but something always made me feel like I should steer back in the direction of an intruder being responsible.
I admit, when I first developed an interest in this case, I was taken back by the amount of evidence available and got real confused.
Eventually,though, when I had finally believed I had read enough
to make a somewhat educated guess at what happened,some things
looked clearer.
I began to see a pattern emerging.
I remember one night after I had read through an article I had printed off from acandyrose, I could see the pattern making some sense.
I picture this case as a tree, for example.
The tree branches going off in different directions represent the different theories of the case.
And like all trees,this case had a root to which everything must be able to be explained and pieced together.
After establishing the WHY and HOW, I planned on trying to
figure out the inevitable...WHO.
Once I had chosen the branch of my choice, I had to keep it alive by
giving it water(evidence) to keep the root for my branch(theory) alive.

Some of that evidence(I emphasize some) in no particular order:

The cowboy boots(suitcase) ramsey vacation home intruder,
the parade float stranger, the alleyway "boogeyman" myth , the
"secret" visit from Santa Clause, the scream heard by Melody Stanton,
the sound of metal clanging against concrete(heard by Luthor Stanton),
the "red heart" on JonBenent's hand, the possible Christmas garland
intangled in her hair, the undigested pinneapple in her small intestine
( as reported by the coroner,Dr.John Meyer),the security light being
off Christmas night(seen by Diane Brumfitt) the strange,dim light
seen in the kitchen area of the Ramsey home by Scott Gibbons,
etc,etc,etc.

I believed there was enough there to explain what happened to
JonBenet'. The problem I have is, I have to come up with a
order of events(relevant vs. non relevant), to make it make sense
among so many "odd" things, and finally make it formulate
the theory I'm looking for.
I'm interested in forensics,graphology(handwriting analysis), DNA testing,
etc, but obviously don't have access to the multitude of evidence that
the BPD probably hasn't released to the public yet, and first hand
experience of looking at that crime scene in the basement...before
it was contaminated by friends,pastors,etc coming into the home.
With the knowledge that I hope to gain by taking forensics courses
when I graduate high school. Man,... I wish I did.

Right now, I'm just writing my thoughts and theories in a
journal I bought, just for this.
I haven't posted on here in a long time, but hope to some more.
You guys on here are a real nice bunch to talk to regarding
true crime, and more specifically,JonBenet's case.


Connor

ShesElectric said:

I don't believe the Ramsey's are involved,but rather, someone who
knew the Ramsey's well.

Some of that evidence(I emphasize some) in no particular order:

The cowboy boots(suitcase) ramsey vacation home intruder,
the parade float stranger, the alleyway "boogeyman" myth , the
"secret" visit from Santa Clause, the scream heard by Melody Stanton,
the sound of metal clanging against concrete(heard by Luthor Stanton),
the "red heart" on JonBenent's hand, the possible Christmas garland
intangled in her hair, the undigested pinneapple in her small intestine
( as reported by the coroner,Dr.John Meyer),the security light being
off Christmas night(seen by Diane Brumfitt) the strange,dim light
seen in the kitchen area of the Ramsey home by Scott Gibbons,
etc,etc,etc.

Connor

Click to expand...

The heart on the hand and the marked up entrepreneur article IMO are curious. The article indicates revenge, although it still could be a thrill crime with themes taken from movies. Hard to say the mind behind the plan. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it was someone acquainted with the Ramseys--ie: son of someone they knew, out for kicks.

The heart on the hand==PR said that is something she did and told JB you always have my heart... Sweet if you really think about it..

justthinkin said:

I'm going to stick my 2 cents worth in here. If some foreign faction had written the ransom note, they wouldn't have left the body in the house.

I don't think Burke did this either. I think PR helped cover up the accidental death. Someone much earlier on this thread said no woman would protect a spouse who molested & killed their child. I disagree. It happens all the time. Some women will choose to protect their lifestyle instead of their child because if they were out on their own, their standard of living would plummet.

Click to expand...

ITA. Also, if you were "foreign faction" would you describe yourself as small? Especially if you were demanding a ransom? Wouldn't you want to appear like a big and strong faction? hhhmmmm LE note to self....well it WAS a small faction" that is why we can't find any evidence of it's existance.

Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!

Tessa2009 said:

Im going to put my 2 cents in to this to:

I believe that PR killed her daughter. I believe that JBR made her mad because she wet her bed and with having to get up so early the next am, she snapped and hit her, knocked her over or maybe even down the stairs and she died. I believe that JR helped her cover it up. I believe that PR wrote that RN. The DNA evidence in JBs underwear didn't match anyone in the house (BTW, did they have any pets?) Does anyone know if LE has put the DNA evidence into CODIS? IMO, they need to do that every year. IF and I say that as a BIG IF, there was an intruder, a person that does this once will do it again and almost certainly get caught. I think that maybe BR knows what happened, we may have to wait until JR is dead until he speaks?

That's all my opinion. Thankx guys!

Click to expand...

At the time, the DNA was deemed too incomplete (not enough markers) to enter into CODIS. I believe they eventually got enough markers in a sample to do so.
JB had a little Bichon dog, Jaques. He was not in the home that night, he was across the street at the neighbors (The Barnhills) who often watched the dog for the Rs when they were not home. The Rs were leaving the day after Christmas so the dog was already there.

DeeDee249 said:

At the time, the DNA was deemed too incomplete (not enough markers) to enter into CODIS. I believe they eventually got enough markers in a sample to do so.
JB had a little Bichon dog, Jaques. He was not in the home that night, he was across the street at the neighbors (The Barnhills) who often watched the dog for the Rs when they were not home. The Rs were leaving the day after Christmas so the dog was already there.

Click to expand...

Thankx! I feel that they should run it through CODIS at least once a year, just for all those who feel there was an intruder.

Tessa2009 said:

Thankx! I feel that they should run it through CODIS at least once a year, just for all those who feel there was an intruder.

Click to expand...

I also think it's a good idea. Though I am RDI, it never hurts to keep looking. You never know.

QUOTE BY COCO PUFF:
"ITA. Also, if you were "foreign faction" would you describe yourself as small? Especially if you were demanding a ransom? Wouldn't you want to appear like a big and strong faction? hhhmmmm LE note to self....well it WAS a small faction" that is why we can't find any evidence of it's existance."

I've often pondered that question as well, with different conclusions all the
time. It seems rational that a person would think a real foreign faction
would want to appear "big and strong", but maybe it was to make people
think it wasn't the work of an intruder,thus slightly implicating the Ramseys.
Or,on the flip side of the coin,maybe they were really a "small foreign faction" and
weren't going to hesitate to use that term to describe themselves as,maybe because they were proud that a group so "small" could possibly pull of a crime
so big? Entering their large home in the dark,committing the murder, writing the note, and leaving without being detected. Could be.
Very.Such being the case.


Connor

Hello WS

I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

Why did the R's call LE?

...jmo...

Chiquita71 said:

Hello WS

I have been thinking of the R's quote: "we don't know anybody that evil."

This is just sleuthy nit picking but I keep on thinking: "well how evil are the people that you know?"

Also: If they did it: why call LE? If Burke did it: why call LE? If the kidnappers did it and the note says not to call LE or your child will die, why call LE?

Why did the R's call LE?

...jmo...

Click to expand...

Not only that but they called their friends over.

"we don't know anybody that evil"

JR wonderfully detaching himself again.

Hello WS

If I had a dead daughter or dead anybody that I wanted to get rid of, and I was rich, had my own plane...

Again, I think the R's are some kind of involved...but: they could have been more devious, yes? I think I am more devious than that, I would not have called anybody until I had the situation under control.

i.e. My private jet taking off with said body inside and dropping it over the swamps of the deep south...many options here.

I don't like when my musings do take me away from the idea that the R's are involved, because I really think they are but! if that is true then they must have panicked. If they killed her why not give themselves more time to get stories straight, whatnot? Or like I said think of a way to get rid of the body so that the kidnapping could look real.

And: if someone did this to "get revenge" or to set up JR to make it look like he had killed his daughter: WOW. Think about that. What if the ole' R's are totally innocent, someone wants him and his business out of the way; so they kill JB and frame the R's.

But, how is leaving a ransom note framing them? How would the perp know that LE would suspect the Rs? And the wow above was for the thought that business must be very cut throat for people to go so far as to do what they did to a little girl.

I wonder why not Burke? Why would the "kidnappers"/killers not chose Burke to teach him a lesson? I need to read the ransom note again. Does it say to teach them a lesson or is that a WS theory. Sorry getting confused.



...jmo...

Chiquita71 said:

Hello WS

If I had a dead daughter or dead anybody that I wanted to get rid of, and I was rich, had my own plane...

Again, I think the R's are some kind of involved...but: they could have been more devious, yes? I think I am more devious than that, I would not have called anybody until I had the situation under control.

i.e. My private jet taking off with said body inside and dropping it over the swamps of the deep south...many options here.

I don't like when my musings do take me away from the idea that the R's are involved, because I really think they are but! if that is true then they must have panicked. If they killed her why not give themselves more time to get stories straight, whatnot? Or like I said think of a way to get rid of the body so that the kidnapping could look real.

And: if someone did this to "get revenge" or to set up JR to make it look like he had killed his daughter: WOW. Think about that. What if the ole' R's are totally innocent, someone wants him and his business out of the way; so they kill JB and frame the R's.

But, how is leaving a ransom note framing them? How would the perp know that LE would suspect the Rs? And the wow above was for the thought that business must be very cut throat for people to go so far as to do what they did to a little girl.

I wonder why not Burke? Why would the "kidnappers"/killers not chose Burke to teach him a lesson? I need to read the ransom note again. Does it say to teach them a lesson or is that a WS theory. Sorry getting confused.



...jmo...

Click to expand...

The RN does not actually MENTION teaching him a lesson. But the inference is there because it babbles about "respecting" his bussiness (sic) but not the "country that it serves" Pure garbage. The note was written for one purpose: To give a reason (to the police, among others) why their daughter was gone.