AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #3

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Hi Marigold,

It was a response to TS stating

Here is the screenshot:

LE should check to see if the Crabb's ever adopted a baby via TS.

I'm confused (but it's not the first time when trying to sort this case out, lol.)

Do you mean that LE should investigate the musical Crabb family that TS mentioned, or the Pastor Crabb that other person mentioned? Btw, here's why I think Tammi was trying to either name drop or find something in common with the potential surrogate:

At 4:11pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
Where at in Kentucky? We moved from Nashvill,Tn to Arizona a year and a half ago. We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY. Are you willing to be AI and do a TS? Tammi



At 4:20pm on November 25, 2008, Ashley Mills said…
I'm not sure what and Al or Ts is could you give me more information on that? and I live an hour south of Lexington in a small town called London. I know a husband and wife with the last name Crabb Sandy & Joel ....he is a pastor....great family!

At 4:38pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
They might be related, but not part of the group. That's cool! Anyway TS means Traditional Surrogate. Meaning you are using your egg and being (AI) artificially insiminated. Hope that helps!
 
I still can't get over her yelling at M Klaas. I was shocked. He is just a top notch person all the way around and certainly deserves much greater respect.

I just don't know where NG's head is sometimes.
I sometimes wonder why Marc even bothers appearing on her show the way he's treated.
 
I'm confused (but it's not the first time when trying to sort this case out, lol.)

Do you mean that LE should investigate the musical Crabb family that TS mentioned, or the Pastor Crabb that other person mentioned? Btw, here's why I think Tammi was trying to either name drop or find something in common with the potential surrogate:

At 4:11pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
Where at in Kentucky? We moved from Nashvill,Tn to Arizona a year and a half ago. We know a lot of people in Kentucky. Have you heard of The Crabb Family? They are a Southern Gospel group out of KY. Are you willing to be AI and do a TS? Tammi



At 4:20pm on November 25, 2008, Ashley Mills said…
I'm not sure what and Al or Ts is could you give me more information on that? and I live an hour south of Lexington in a small town called London. I know a husband and wife with the last name Crabb Sandy & Joel ....he is a pastor....great family!

At 4:38pm on November 25, 2008, Tammi Smith said…
They might be related, but not part of the group. That's cool! Anyway TS means Traditional Surrogate. Meaning you are using your egg and being (AI) artificially insiminated. Hope that helps!

The Pastor Crabb's to see if TS ever supplied a baby to them not the musical Crabbs.
 
I had hopes in the beginning that Gabriel was alive and that the Smiths had helped hide him but the more time that goes on the more I am losing that hope. I can't see any other reason for EJ to allow herself to sit in jail if the only thing that is standing between her and freedom is telling where the child is. Given the fact that even her own grandfather thinks she is capable of harming her child makes me even less hopeful. I just can't see her hating LM more then she loves her freedom. I just think the child should have been found by now. I am sure LE has cell phone records and pings and should have been able to retrace her actions on the last day she was seen with Gabriel. I am sure if she met a family to give them Gabriel there would be some cell phone records. I hope LE is really closer then we know to finding baby Gabriel.
 
I think this idea is absolutely ridiculous! It seems the conspiracy theories are getting out of hand and the obvious is being missed. Elizabeth simply didnt want her child. Here is what I think is most likely... The Smiths wanted a child, she lost hers to her spouse and wanted an instant family with her new husband. She met a troubled girl, mentioned that she had adopted her step grandchild and suggested that if Elizabeth was so unhappy that she would provide a loving home. Elizabeth was angry, spiteful, probably overwhelmed especially in light of the fact that she had little family to help support her and thought it was a good way to relieve her responsibility and spite Logan at the same time. When that didnt work out and she discovered that Logan was going to take the baby away from her, she decided to show him! I think she killed the baby. The Smiths are not much concerned because they know they havent done anything in the way of hiding this baby and they figure if he is alive, better he be missing than Logan have him since they cant have him themselves. They very ignorantly probably havent even fathomed that he is dead, because they think they know Elizabeth.
I would just add that they probably fed EJ's spite against Logan and helped her to run away in their stupid blindness and greed for this child.
 
So are we to take from this that TS was providing an insemination service as well?

No, and what other services was she supposedly offering at all besides colonic care? She was seeking a surrogate to have a baby for herself, its really that simple.
 
So are we to take from this that TS was providing an insemination service as well?

I am thinking that the Smiths found a surrogate to carry their child and she went through the insemination process and did not become pregnant. Either that or she made that up for some reason.
 
Am very late into baby Gabriel's case and have just started looking around. TS has had activity on the Family Preservation site with this comment

What is going on here ... there are even people replying saying they would do it for a rich couple who has lots of money. This has probably already been discussed. Looks like TS is a baby broker to me. All MOO of course.

http://www.surrogatemother.com/profile/TammiSmith
for the record, that's not her comment, she replied to that comment.
 
So are we to take from this that TS was providing an insemination service as well?

I wouldn't take it that way.
I just found somebody from shortly before that, 11/08, who claims to have been in the process of donating eggs to them at the time. Maybe this was all part of that same attempt at them finding a surrogate.
 
So are we to take from this that TS was providing an insemination service as well?

or that she had a surrogate at some point and it didn't work out?

by the way Hello I been following you guys for a while now just finally able to post WOOT!

Did anyone mention that the one person you were asking 'who is she' is actually TS's sister and TS has left a few posts about calling or texting her as soon as **** goes into labor?

Interesting? ...maybe?
 
I've been wondering the same and I am not sure if anyone has posted info on here identifying the daughter.

I found that one MS profile where a woman who is 39 has videos of H on it and is friends of Tammi and Jack and others they know. I thought maybe that was the mom or a missing link. I guess no one else thought much of it though. Coincidentally, that woman is friends with someone of the last name Johnson.

Also, the court records show the woman who was searched in Nashville (Janet Morris) and associates at The Adoption Place, were filing to gain custody of a child who was evidently born and/or conceived in 2005. They did not properly list it to find the father and he eventually found out they were trying to adopt out his baby - father is named as John Doe so I don't know if it could be the father of H (Warford) or not. If not, it is a very similar case.

I thought the father was listed as John Doe b/c the court did not know who the father was. The court appointed a lawyer to represent the unknown father and that lawyer filed motions on behalf of the unknown father. The motions seemed to be concerned with whether a proper attempt at notification was made (through advertising in a newspaper etc.). The problem the court faced was that the biological mother denied knowing who the father was (claimed one-night stand) and so it became even more difficult to figure out a way that would satisfy the court that `proper`notification could be made. To add to the difficulty, the bio-mother was under 18 and could not be named either in the court documents or in any àdvertising`.

Now, this is all based on my quick scanning of the documents and I very well could've missed where the unknown father came forward. I agree it`s a similar case, except that the documents I read stated that both the bio-mother & father were African-American.

All this does not detract from the interesting fact that the same person or adoption scam (oops! I mean agency) was involved. It also does not take away from the fact that it appears this person & her partner used identical paperwork for a different case, typos and all, except they each managed to remember to sign their own name to their own case.

Just another couple of predators preying on desperate people and masquerading as do-gooders IMO.
 
I had hopes in the beginning that Gabriel was alive and that the Smiths had helped hide him but the more time that goes on the more I am losing that hope. I can't see any other reason for EJ to allow herself to sit in jail if the only thing that is standing between her and freedom is telling where the child is. Given the fact that even her own grandfather thinks she is capable of harming her child makes me even less hopeful. I just can't see her hating LM more then she loves her freedom. I just think the child should have been found by now. I am sure LE has cell phone records and pings and should have been able to retrace her actions on the last day she was seen with Gabriel. I am sure if she met a family to give them Gabriel there would be some cell phone records. I hope LE is really closer then we know to finding baby Gabriel.
sadly, I share your thoughts. I can't understand why she isn't singing for her freedom if she simply pulled some "let's hide Gabe game" I'm am praying she didn't harm him. I can't understand why she wouldn't talk if she didn't.
 
Tis may be a rare case of a crime within another crime circle.............
EJ & Gabriel............like some think of KC & Caylee......?

Gabriel in the middle of the Smith's circle of baby trafficing gone bad?
Getting caught this time.........

In a way this reminds me of the Bilings family.........very dysfunctioning with their own children, but adopting allot of disabled children.........circles within crcles...........

the first WS investigated child trafficing was with Shaniya davis case.
IMO, it's more than we know!!

Big money in buying and selling babies??
 
I think this idea is absolutely ridiculous! It seems the conspiracy theories are getting out of hand and the obvious is being missed. Elizabeth simply didnt want her child. Here is what I think is most likely... The Smiths wanted a child, she lost hers to her spouse and wanted an instant family with her new husband. She met a troubled girl, mentioned that she had adopted her step grandchild and suggested that if Elizabeth was so unhappy that she would provide a loving home. Elizabeth was angry, spiteful, probably overwhelmed especially in light of the fact that she had little family to help support her and thought it was a good way to relieve her responsibility and spite Logan at the same time. When that didnt work out and she discovered that Logan was going to take the baby away from her, she decided to show him! I think she killed the baby. The Smiths are not much concerned because they know they havent done anything in the way of hiding this baby and they figure if he is alive, better he be missing than Logan have him since they cant have him themselves. They very ignorantly probably havent even fathomed that he is dead, because they think they know Elizabeth.

Occam's Razor
 
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