IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

Wishbone said:

I'm more apt to believe something if it is reported the same from a few different sources. I don't take what I read in the MSM as law unless it is proven to me. But, for the subject we were discussing I tend to believe that Misty did say what was reported. That may or not be factual but its the best I have right now.........

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callyn said:

They may not "make it up" but they sure can be mistaken. Really, you don't believe that if MSM repeats something enough times, that means it's true, do you? :maddening:

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SapphireSteel said:

None of us are part of the investigation (that we know of) so all we do have to go on is msm.

Personally I don't actually believe anyone straight away, but I have to think that the reporter who was on the scene at the time (and probably in the pocket of various LE) is more credible than the family sources, for whatever reason.

I'm sorry you have decided msm is rubbish and to be discounted, although I notice you also quote them at times.

:dunno:

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Wishbone said:

I'm more apt to believe something if it is reported the same from a few different sources. I don't take what I read in the MSM as law unless it is proven to me. But, for the subject we were discussing I tend to believe that Misty did say what was reported. That may or not be factual but its the best I have right now.........

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Bootsctr said:

I tend to believe there are bits of truth in every lie. I do believe someone thought TB was talking too much, whether it was LE, FBI or the family, and they got her to shut up real quick.

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lishac23 said:

Shifting focus a little bit....although we can't confirm that the girls voluntarily went to the lake...we know for a fact that the perp was there. He/she/they... either took the girls from there or went there to dispose of the bikes and purse. So looking at this from the perps perspective...from the spot where the bikes/purse were...what is the easiest route in and out to go undetected? Maiden Lane?

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otto said:

It seems to me that the FBI and police have said that the dogs tracked from the bikes, placing the girls at the lake. Brouseau was quoted (NG Transcripts) as saying that the dogs tracked one girl at a time from the bikes to the forested area near Maiden Lane ... keeping in mind that everyone on the Nancy Grace show seems to confuse feet and yards when discussing locations around the lake.

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Bootsctr said:

Hi everybody! Another thing that makes me the girls were at the lake is Lyric's disappearance 4 days earlier. It was in the JVM interview with MCM and DC. DC started talking about this had just happened about 4 days earlier and MCM butted in when he started talking about calling LE and explained Lyric was not that far away to begin with. She was supposed to have been at the park, but they could not find her at the park. I believe it is possible Lyric could have gone to the lake that day. MCM stated Lyric walked up right as she was calling LE, so if we are to believe that, maybe Lyric had borrowed someone else's bike and she and a friend had gone to the lake the first time she went missing. IMO, MCM and DC came down hard on her and she copped to have been at the lake, or someone told MCM that they had seen Lyric at the lake. I believe that is why TB said go to the lake. It was fresh in her mind that Lyric had just done that and Elizabeth was known to have gone to the lake unbeknowst to WC.

Just my opinion, MCM shared with TB that Lyric had been caught going to the lake and first thought when girls turned up missing was that they were more than likely at the lake. MCM or WC (no I don't believe she knew the girls had been to the lake before)didn't want to risk losing their daughter/granddaughter if CPS found out Lyric had been missing so she didn't come forth with that information and definitely did not want to say it on national TV. TB came forth with information that Elizabeth had gone to the lake with friends, just thinking Lyric likely could have too.

I also think 1 perp could have taken both girls....if it was even someone the girls vaguely knew and someone they knew as authoratative (someone who caught the girls doing something they knew they would get in trouble for), or even someone they knew through their parents the girls might have been so surprised by this person. They did not immediately think stranger danger because it was someone with whom they were vaguely famliar. This person shocks them by catching off-guard doing whatever... and tells them that they need to come with them right now. Both girls do what they are told because they think this person is going to take them to grandma and tell her they were at the lake doing whatever.

Also, I believe these girls were very bright. If there was a tazor involved, and if they were trapped so to speak, then tazing one and the other not having the opportunity to escape, this person said, "I'll taze you too if you don't do what I tell you." It might be kind of shocking to a child to see someone tazed in real life. Plus, given Lyric's background, if she saw a gun or a knife and a knife was held to the others throat or a gun held to the other, I'm thinking being caught offguard they would be completely stunned and not sure what do it.... especially if this was not a complete stranger to them. Just guessing.....

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Bootsctr said:

Hi everybody! Another thing that makes me the girls were at the lake is Lyric's disappearance 4 days earlier. It was in the JVM interview with MCM and DC. DC started talking about this had just happened about 4 days earlier and MCM butted in when he started talking about calling LE and explained Lyric was not that far away to begin with. She was supposed to have been at the park, but they could not find her at the park. I believe it is possible Lyric could have gone to the lake that day. MCM stated Lyric walked up right as she was calling LE, so if we are to believe that, maybe Lyric had borrowed someone else's bike and she and a friend had gone to the lake the first time she went missing. IMO, MCM and DC came down hard on her and she copped to have been at the lake, or someone told MCM that they had seen Lyric at the lake. I believe that is why TB said go to the lake. It was fresh in her mind that Lyric had just done that and Elizabeth was known to have gone to the lake unbeknowst to WC.

Just my opinion, MCM shared with TB that Lyric had been caught going to the lake and first thought when girls turned up missing was that they were more than likely at the lake. MCM or WC (no I don't believe she knew the girls had been to the lake before)didn't want to risk losing their daughter/granddaughter if CPS found out Lyric had been missing so she didn't come forth with that information and definitely did not want to say it on national TV. TB came forth with information that Elizabeth had gone to the lake with friends, just thinking Lyric likely could have too.

I also think 1 perp could have taken both girls....if it was even someone the girls vaguely knew and someone they knew as authoratative (someone who caught the girls doing something they knew they would get in trouble for), or even someone they knew through their parents the girls might have been so surprised by this person. They did not immediately think stranger danger because it was someone with whom they were vaguely famliar. This person shocks them by catching off-guard doing whatever... and tells them that they need to come with them right now. Both girls do what they are told because they think this person is going to take them to grandma and tell her they were at the lake doing whatever.

Also, I believe these girls were very bright. If there was a tazor involved, and if they were trapped so to speak, then tazing one and the other not having the opportunity to escape, this person said, "I'll taze you too if you don't do what I tell you." It might be kind of shocking to a child to see someone tazed in real life. Plus, given Lyric's background, if she saw a gun or a knife and a knife was held to the others throat or a gun held to the other, I'm thinking being caught offguard they would be completely stunned and not sure what do it.... especially if this was not a complete stranger to them. Just guessing.....

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katydid23 said:

Butr when Lyric was missing 4 days earlier she was not in Evansdale. She was in Waterloo and with a different cousin and not on bikes/

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otto said:

It seems to me that the FBI and police have said that the dogs tracked from the bikes, placing the girls at the lake. Brouseau was quoted (NG Transcripts) as saying that the dogs tracked one girl at a time from the bikes to the forested area near Maiden Lane ... keeping in mind that everyone on the Nancy Grace show seems to confuse feet and yards when discussing locations around the lake.

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Bootsctr said:

Okay. My mistake. I thought TB continued to talk to JVM after MCM and DC until BB was arrested. Yes, the damage may well be done.

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tlcox said:

Hi Bootsctr I agree, I also think these are bright girls who may have been ranging further than they were supposed to. However, the disappearance days before: I understood that Lryic and a different cousin (one of TB's daughters) were MIA in the town of Waterloo and not Evansdale. So I doubt the girls were at the lake on that day.

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katydid23 said:

Well, yes and no.

Grandma went out searching first at 12:30--- with the 12 yr old brother. They went through the neighborhood, the town and the local parks and they even went out to Meyers Lake area.

THEN when Aunt T. arrived from Waterloo, Aunt T. started her search by going right to the lake. And she said she had a gut feeling about it, which may also
be because she already knew that Lizzie had ridden there previously with the neighbor girls.

But what I find interesting about Aunt T. having that gut reaction to go straight to the lake---she also asked 'random' people if they saw the girls, and apparently one guy did see them according to Aunt T. She said that LE had his name and she did not know if he was a POI or not, but he saw 2 little girls riding their bikes about 2:15 on the trail.

So how come LE never verified this sighting? And why would the girls be riding around the lake at 2:15 when they knew they had to be home by 1?

And if they were told the girls had just ridden by 15 minutes earlier,then why didnt they spread out and go around the lake themselves?

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lishac23 said:

Based on your photos it didn't look like Maiden Lane was accessible the entire "route" at least not by car. Am I mistaken?

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SapphireSteel said:

The problem with the staging theory is the dogs picked up the girls scent.

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otto said:

The road to Maiden Lane is off Arbutus Avenue and leads to the Sewer Lift Station. Just past that building is Maiden Lane. Ollipop posted terrain photos, one of which I included in the detail map of the Maiden Lane area, showing tired tracks in the grass along Maiden Lane. It's possible to drive some distance down the Lane and be invisible from the road and lake. From there, it's a short walk along the lakeside of the fence to the gate.

There is a double fence (no gate) at the area where Maiden Lane meets the Evansdale Trail (where bikes were found).

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Copper said:

I think its possible the lake is where the perp(s) spotted the girls and then took them later.

I'm trying to think, who saw the bikes upright and who saw them laying on the ground? Is it possible both are correct? When the cyclist went by, could the girls have been at the lake and he just didn't see them? Then the girls leave the lake and the perps follow. The girls are taken and the bikes are staged in a way different from when they were seen before?

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